For Suns, size doesn’t matter

azdad1978

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By Mike Tulumello, Tribune

To win an NBA title, you normally think big.
Prior to last season, the past five title teams, after all, were centered around such behemoths as Shaquille O’Neal and Tim Duncan. But Suns coach Mike D’Antoni thinks small. He had been wondering about going small ever since the Suns bagged 6-foot-6 Quentin Richardson in the free agent market. The Suns’ five best players, though undersized by traditional standards (the three tallest are 6-10, 6-7, 6-7), would have enormous firepower.

But he didn’t commit to the idea until about "halfway through the exhibition season" in October. An effective game against the Utah Jazz jump-started the notion.

At that point, "We decided, ‘Let’s do it. Let’s see what happens,’ " the Suns coach said.

His thinking: If you’ve got the best big guys, go big. If you’ve got the best small guys, go small.

"I think we’ve got the best small guys."

Besides, he said, "Wouldn’t your rather root for David over Goliath?"

The strategy worked wonders as the Suns ran off nine straight wins.

Yet the potential shortcomings of the small lineup have been illustrated in the past few days.

The Suns were pounded on the boards Tuesday at Utah but used their fast break to pull out the game in the closing minutes.

The next night, Amare Stoudemire struggled early on vs. Cleveland’s 7-foot center, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, but Stoudemire and the Suns gradually wore down the Cavs.

Then on Friday night, the Suns couldn’t escape when the long, tall Minnesota Timberwolves — who have whipped the Suns in recent years — controlled both the boards and the pace of the game in pulling out a late win.

On Saturday, D’Antoni said of the T-Wolves, "They’re long. That’s one of their strengths.

"But if we go long (with bigger players), we don’t win. I know that for sure."

What is critical for the Suns coach is to have his key players believing in his system.

So far so good.

Even Stoudemire, who has griped off and on about the idea of being the team’s nominal center since the summer, seems to have warmed up to the idea.

Talking about the Suns’ loss after Friday’s game, he at first mentioned the combination of the T-Wolves’ length and the Suns’ small lineup.

Then, he seemed to catch himself. Not wanting to blame the Suns’ strategy, he said, "We had the game in our hands down the stretch. We’re OK."

The other notable feature of the lineup is that Shawn Marion switches from small forward to power forward.

Instead of the move wearing Marion out, with him playing against bigger, stronger competitors, D’Antoni thinks it actually causes less wear and tear on Marion because he doesn’t have to chase players around the perimeter, fighting through screens along the way.

Marion, who has been playing as well as he ever has in his six Suns seasons, seems enthusiastic about Phoenix’s approach:

"We’ve got five horses on the floor. (Opponents) can’t do anything about that," he said.

The Suns’ fast break can produce an end-to-end basket in four or five seconds, he pointed out.

"We’ve seen it on tape," Marion said. "How do you defend that?" To make the Suns’ approach work, Phoenix needs the energy to run all game long, so opponents eventually wilt and their shots fall short.

This firepower, which can quickly negate anything accomplished by the opposition, can break an opponent’s spirit, D’Antoni reasoned.

"That’s the theory behind it," he said. "We’ll see how far we can go with it."

BONUS SHOT: Maciej Lampe, who missed Friday’s game with an illness, is expected to be available tonight.

Suns at Trail Blazers
When: 7 p.m. today
Where: Rose Garden, Portland, Ore.
TV: KUTP (Ch. 45)
Radio: KTAR (620 AM)
Line: Phoenix by 3 1/2

Series history: Suns lead all time, 92-81, including a 33-54 record in Portland. In recent years, the Suns have handled the Blazers (winning 10 of the past 16) sometimes even when they appeared to have a talent disadvantage.

Scouting report: Suns — Going against the big Trail Blazers will be a classic test of "Can we get into the full-court or can they keep us in the half-court?" said coach Mike D’Antoni. "We’ll have to have a lot of energy to get running." The Suns are hoping to benefit from the fact the Blazers played the SuperSonics on Saturday night.

Trail Blazers — They’re at least a mild surprise, managing to stay over .500 in the tough West. While scoring is up slightly in the NBA, the Trail Blazers prefer to slow it down and dump the ball to Zach Randolph, who’s averaging 21.4 points (No. 17 in the NBA) and 10.9 rebounds (No. 6). The Blazers score only 90.1 points but give up only 88.3. Center Theo Ratliff ranks No. 8 in blocks at 2.57 per game. Combined with Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a natural power forward who’s playing the small forward spot, Portland has a big, formidable front line.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=32663
 

jibikao

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It's true that Suns only lost 4 pts to T-Wolves. It's not like T-Wolves were in control the WHOLE freaking game. It's not a blow-out game so Suns' strategy did work (at least to some degree).

I just think that when the T-Wolves switched to zone and caused trouble to Amare and other players, Suns should come up with an alternative plan. I mean you gotta have an alternative because what if Nash got hurt? Amare got hurt? Marion got hurt?

I guess what I am trying to say is that I still root for Small Balls. It's exciting to watch and it has potential. NBA is about FUN and FANTASTY. I mean Spurs and Pistons are good but I NEVER finish watching their games because they are quite boring. If I want quanlity, defense-oriented games, I can watch College Basketballs.

People still want to see crazy dunks, fask break and passes and Suns has them all. It's a shame that Suns won't be televised too much this year because most of the schedules were pre-programmed from last year. I guess this is part of the reason that many people still have doubts in Suns because they haven't seen them play (at least not enough, that first TNT Cavs game was very ugly).

I say we go for small ball most of the time and have a good alternative plan when things don't go right. I mean when you shoot 2/18, you gotta do something different!!

Jimmy
 

jibikao

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Oops, double post. For some reasons, I thought the first one didn't go through...

Jimmy
 

newfan101

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azdad1978 said:
Then on Friday night, the Suns couldn’t escape when the long, tall Minnesota Timberwolves — who have whipped the Suns in recent years — controlled both the boards and the pace of the game in pulling out a late win.

On Saturday, D’Antoni said of the T-Wolves, "They’re long. That’s one of their strengths.

"But if we go long (with bigger players), we don’t win. I know that for sure."

How do you know "for sure," Mike? :shrug:

Am I the only one disturbed by this comment?
 

elindholm

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Am I the only one disturbed by this comment?

No, I also thought it was idiotic. And my guess is that Errntknght will quickly point it out as an example of sloppy, illogical thinking.

NBA is about FUN and FANTASTY.

Maybe to you. To me, it's about WINNING.
 

devilalum

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newfan101 said:
How do you know "for sure," Mike? :shrug:

Am I the only one disturbed by this comment?


How does putting Voskuhl in for Q make the Suns a better team?

That's the difference between the Suns small lineup and the potential "BIG" lineup everybody wants.

Whenever Hunter and Amare are on the floor at the same time its like the earth stops spinning. They were on the floor together for a few minutes in the second half and looked horrible. Maybe if they played together a lot that would improve.

I really like Voskuhl, he plays hard every second he's on the floor and he seems to be getting better about making stupid fouls but he doesn't bring nearly as much to the table as Q does.

If the Suns had Camby or Ratliff to put in the middle I'm sure they'd be there all the time. But they don't.
 

George O'Brien

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If trying hard was all it took, Jake would be an all star. Sometimes he is moderately effective, but unfortunately, his limitations are pretty apparent:

1. Short arms - he may be 6'11" but other guys his size routinely tip the ball away from him.

2. Slow and Can't jump - other guys his size can make up for it with quickness and leaping ability.

3. Small hands - he gets stripped of the ball after rebounds, he messes up when getting passes, and just seems to struggle with the ball in his hands. People complained about Jahidi White's hands in that the ball bounced out, but once he grabbed the ball no one was going to strip it away. Jake's hands are always going be a liability for him and there isn't much the Suns can do about it.
 

JS22

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"But if we go long (with bigger players), we don’t win. I know that for sure."

What the hell?? :mad:

Hunter came in and shut down KG right away. After a few minutes, out goes Hunter, and the Wolves go on a run to end the game.

That quote really makes me dislike D'antoni even more. :bang:
 

My3Suns

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jibikao said:
I guess what I am trying to say is that I still root for Small Balls. It's exciting to watch and it has potential.

I say we go for small ball most of the time and have a good alternative plan when things don't go right.
:biglaugh: :notworthy :biglaugh:

Dude I'd hate to be you on a big date.
 
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Joe Mama

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WastedFate said:
What the hell?? :mad:

Hunter came in and shut down KG right away. After a few minutes, out goes Hunter, and the Wolves go on a run to end the game.

That quote really makes me dislike D'antoni even more. :bang:

Well , I still like D'Antoni, but that quote definitely bothers me. How in the world what he know that a standard lineup doesn't work for this team when he has tried it for all of about 20 minutes the entire season? Now that might sound like an exaggeration, but I'm not sure it is. Realistically I'll bet this team hasn't seen more than 30-40 minutes with a regular sized lineup outside of junk time.

And playing two or three minutes here and there with a legitimate center and power forward does not count. It doesn't give them any time to work with each other.

Joe Mama
 

Errntknght

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What I don't like about D'Antoni's statement that we can't win going big is that he makes it sound like an either-or proposition. I've been a critic of too much small/finesse ball for almost two generations but even I can see that this is one heckuva small ball team. Probably any coach that was in charge of this team would go with a small lineup a good percentage of the time. D'A talks as though the only alternative to what he's doing would be to go with a conventional sized lineup all the time - and I have to agree that to do that would not be a good idea. But there is plenty of middle ground in which the team does go big some of the time. I greatly favor doing it as part of the normal rotation with the idea of developing the most effective big line up possible. We've already seen that it is going to be badly needed at times.

This not a suggestion that Q's minutes take a big hit in favor of starting Voskuhl. But we have Hunter who's had a positive impact almost every times he's gotten on the floor sitting idle while Casey is playing and usually getting abused. Putting CJ out there just so the lineup will be small is as much an exercise in futility as playing Jake 35 mpg just to have a conventional lineup.
 

myrondizzo

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I think the thing that is most disturbing is that hunter really doesnt slow us down. i think that if they do more rotating the run would be more effective (faster). rotate someone in every 5-6 min and they would be fresher and faster.

i think you could run your small line up half way through the 2nd and 3rd quarters after the other team has been worn down a bit. i dont mid the small line up because i like having that much firepower on the court because there is no way to gaurd them if one is hot.
 

George O'Brien

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A case could be made that Hunter is the most atheltic 7 footer not named Garnett in the NBA. He is a legit seven footer with very long arms, is a good jumper for his size and really runs well. He also seems to have good hands. (Check out his profile on suns.com - Hunter where he is palming the ball). Hunter finishes on the fast break very well.

So what is his problem? Speculation is that he is not a good practice player and has a hard time remembering his assignments. He is still young and relatively inexperienced, so I think his playing may become more consistently good as he matures.

BTW, you never know when a guy, who for years showed little, finally blossoms. Former U of A player Loren Woods was considered to be mostly a bust after three seasons, but this year with the Raptors he is averaging 7.0 rpg in just 20.8 minutes through 14 games. Last season he played in only 38 games for a bad Heat team.
 

sunsfn

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George O'Brien said:
A case could be made that Hunter is the most atheltic 7 footer not named Garnett in the NBA. He is a legit seven footer with very long arms, is a good jumper for his size and really runs well. He also seems to have good hands. (Check out his profile on suns.com - Hunter where he is palming the ball). Hunter finishes on the fast break very well.QUOTE]

I like Hunter and think he is athletic, and am happy we have him, but if you have seen Dalembert from the sixers, you would realize he is probably the person you are describing above, he really can run the court like a guard.
 

JCSunsfan

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George O'Brien said:
BTW, you never know when a guy, who for years showed little, finally blossoms. Former U of A player Loren Woods was considered to be mostly a bust after three seasons, but this year with the Raptors he is averaging 7.0 rpg in just 20.8 minutes through 14 games. Last season he played in only 38 games for a bad Heat team.

This is especially true with big men. They are so used to depending upon their size at the lower levels, that they do not have to get accustomed to the speed of the game. When they come into the NBA, the mental adjustment is huge.

If they are properly coached, they can get it over time. Sadly, some teams are so impatient about production, they never take the time to teach them and a potentially good big man falls off the charts.

Hunter actually reminds me of a little taller Tim Perry. He was coming along--slowly, with the Suns. But when he got traded to Philly, the tutoring stopped and he disappeared.
 

Joe Mama

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George O'Brien said:
BTW, you never know when a guy, who for years showed little, finally blossoms. Former U of A player Loren Woods was considered to be mostly a bust after three seasons, but this year with the Raptors he is averaging 7.0 rpg in just 20.8 minutes through 14 games. Last season he played in only 38 games for a bad Heat team.

You make a decent point, George, but Loren Woods is a bad example. He was drafted late and has struggled to make a positive contribution to several teams because he has a head case. In fact he just had another episode the other night when Toronto played the Boston Celtics. I suspect that his minutes will start to decline because his coach was not very happy with him or Alston.

They were both benched because they picked up stupid technical fouls, and then they both, especially Woods, wouldn't shut up about it.

Joe Mama
 
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