For Those of You Who Continue to Apologize for Sarver

[pokerface]

Doesn't his actions prove otherwise????

Uhhh..NO!

 

[pokerface]

I truly believe that not only is Sarver cheap....but he is a lunatic. He has no idea what the hell he is doing and should not be an owner of ANY sports team.

Sarver has been in the top 10 in payroll every year since he arrived. How is that cheap??

 

[Irish]

I don't think Sarver is cheap, but it sure seems like he is deeply conflicted. He's had three GM's and didn't really trust any of them.

Wit BC, Sarver ignored his advice to extend JJ in the fall of 2004.

D'Antoni was an awful GM who couldn't be bothered to stay in the country during free agency.

Kerr soldiered through the Kurt "Thomas/Janes Jones" fiasco and apparently was not consulted on the Shaq trade; yet never voiced any complaints. But after a series of great moves, Sarver all but forced Kerr out the door.

How likely is Sarver to trust the next GM and why should this GM trust him?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Exactly. This is the same stupid argument when the Cards were in the dumps, and people continued to spin and make excuses. Of course everyone who enters any competition hopes to win, and would love if it happens, but there is a big difference between hoping these things happen, and having a well executed plan to make them happen.

I think there's a big difference between Sarver's Suns and the Cardinals of the past. For one thing, the Suns routinely win games. Also, Bidwill spent a lot less money in comparison to other clubs and again that has not been the case with Sarver. I'm not a Sarver fan but I think I'll wait out the current storm and see how many of the speculation driven cheap shots are warranted.

I don't know if they've had a well executed plan but they've had a lot more success than failure during Robert's ownership.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

Sarver has been in the top 10 in payroll every year since he arrived. How is that cheap??

No, people always point to the payroll to defend Sarver against the cheap allegations. He knows that a winning team makes more money than a losing team. Paying players like Nash and Amare doesn't prove that he is not cheap. It just proves that he understands the concept of spending money to make money.

 

[pokerface]

No, people always point to the payroll to defend Sarver against the cheap allegations. He knows that a winning team makes more money than a losing team. Paying players like Nash and Amare doesn't prove that he is not cheap. It just proves that he understands the concept of spending money to make money.

People always point to the payroll because its FACT.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No, people always point to the payroll to defend Sarver against the cheap allegations. He knows that a winning team makes more money than a losing team. Paying players like Nash and Amare doesn't prove that he is not cheap. It just proves that he understands the concept of spending money to make money.

Well then, I think we need to establish a definition for cheap or come up with a new word. I agree, those of us that rail against the "cheap" accusation do so because he regularly pays out more in salaries than most other teams do. However, I really don't think there's anyone here that doesn't acknowledge that Sarver has made financially motivated decisions that we disliked even without the benefit of hindsight.

Out of curiosity, how many owners qualify as cheap using your definition? I suspect that most owners recognize that you have to spend money to make money in this game. And I'd bet that most of them keep an eye on the bottom line when they make decisions just like Sarver does.

Steve

 

[Irish]

No, people always point to the payroll to defend Sarver against the cheap allegations. He knows that a winning team makes more money than a losing team. Paying players like Nash and Amare doesn't prove that he is not cheap. It just proves that he understands the concept of spending money to make money.

So he sould spend it stupidly?

Overall Sarver has shown he will pay what it takes, but a penny more.

Steve Kerr's exit suggests Phoenix Suns' Robert Sarver still has work to do

30 commentsby Paola Boivin, columnist - Jun. 16, 2010 06:28 PM
The Arizona Republic



Steve Kerr is walking out the door, and it feels a little like Robert Sarver is holding it open for him.
No, the Suns' managing partner didn't want his general manager to go. You can't help but feel, however, that if Sarver had created a better work environment, Kerr would have jumped at the opportunity to stay.



And the boss, not-so-affectionately dubbed Robert "Saver," would not be beaten up in the community quite so much.

Think about it. Kerr had found his footing. He went from a guy who was considered a bust to a guy touted as the new wave of genius in the NBA.
His team advanced to the Western Conference finals. He made astute deals involving Jason Richardson

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and Jared Dudley and oversaw productive drafts that brought in Robin Lopez and Goran Dragic.
His decision came fewer than three weeks after expressing confidence that he and Sarver would reach an agreement.
Something doesn't smell right.
NBA ownership has a learning curve like nowhere else in the business world.

The landscape is defined by egos and contracts and occasional petulance, and navigation of it demands a deft touch.

Sarver has come a long way from when he became managing partner in 2004. He learned the hard way that his courtside demeanor is under a harsh spotlight (think Gregg Popovich and chicken dance) and that there is an art to contract negotiation (think Joe Johnson

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).
And frankly, the franchise's success during his six years is too often overlooked. The Suns have the third-best winning percentage in the NBA during that span.

"That is what is really different in this business," he said Wednesday. "In most businesses, people look at the results. I'm a very results-oriented person. In this business, people look at the results and the process on a day to day basis."

He deserves credit for surrounding himself with two well-respected figures in Kerr and coach Alvin Gentry

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, and the trio projected itself as a management team that could work.

It is much less effective when one of the three figures is no longer there. Therein lies the problem. For an organization that was so successful this season, morale around US Airways Center remains an issue. It's the big stuff, such as having to haggle over contracts on the heels of a profitable postseason. And the little stuff, such as Jason Richardson paying for teammates' breakfasts during the playoffs when a team normally would pick up the tab.

It's being too omnipresent at times.

This is tricky territory, because it is Sarver's team. He paid for it and has the right to immerse himself in it as much as he wants.

But the more-successful owners know how to walk that line. Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban is one of those. When asked once how he balances being supportive with micro-managing, he said, "I know where I add value, where I don't and the value of saying nothing and just observing."

Sarver is no fool. He founded the National Bank of Tucson at age 23 and made a fortune in banking and real estate.

He did it with a brilliant business mind and great vision. Both can serve him well in the NBA. He needs to surround himself with people he can defer to as well, because most owners delve into territories in which they are unfamiliar.

That's the pity of Kerr leaving. He had the knowledge, the experience (after a few trying years) and the ability to forge strong relationships.
Instead, the organization is facing its fourth general manager in the past six years. That's never a good thing. General managers rarely leave on their own accord.

Continuity in this league is everything if you look at the more-successful franchises. Mitch Kupchak has been with the Lakers since 2000, R.C. Buford with the San Antonio Spurs since 2002.

There is no doubting this: Sarver need to be wise with this hire.
That means choosing someone who has the experience and the league's respect. He needs someone with vision, because Amar'e Stoudemire's potential exit and Steve Nash's eventual retirement will greatly change the dynamic of the team.

He needs to hold open the door to a top-flight hire and create an environment in which people want to stay.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...616phoenix-suns-steve-kerr-robert-sarver.html

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well then, I think we need to establish a definition for cheap or come up with a new word. I agree, those of us that rail against the "cheap" accusation do so because he regularly pays out more in salaries than most other teams do. However, I really don't think there's anyone here that doesn't acknowledge that Sarver has made financially motivated decisions that we disliked even without the benefit of hindsight.

Out of curiosity, how many owners qualify as cheap using your definition? I suspect that most owners recognize that you have to spend money to make money in this game. And I'd bet that most of them keep an eye on the bottom line when they make decisions just like Sarver does.

Steve

I think Sarver's more stupid/arrogant/embarrassing than he is cheap. He seemingly great at running a business and making a profit, but I'm not a shareholder. I'm a fan and his inability to reward success/thwart it on the court by putting bottom line above winning is not what I want in an owner.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think Sarver's more stupid/arrogant/embarrassing than he is cheap. He seemingly great at running a business and making a profit, but I'm not a shareholder. I'm a fan and his inability to reward success/thwart it on the court by putting bottom line above winning is not what I want in an owner.

I know he's not stupid but I have no opinion on the arrogant charge. I'd agree that he's made some stupid decisions and like you, I'd love to see him sell the team to someone that can afford/is willing to be a little less bottom-line oriented.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I think Sarver's more stupid/arrogant/embarrassing than he is cheap. He seemingly great at running a business and making a profit, but I'm not a shareholder. I'm a fan and his inability to reward success/thwart it on the court by putting bottom line above winning is not what I want in an owner.

As much as I like to not jump to crazy conclusions, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Sarver has gone through the "fun" time as an owner, now he's getting to the "profit" time. He simply doesn't want to lose money anymore. Unfortunately, as fans it has to be at our expense, which sucks.

As much as we rag on Mark Cuban, he is going through the same thing. He's not a freewheeling spender anymore. But he's much better at realizing where his bread is buttered and is pretty brilliant at using his money wisely in an entertainment complex, whereas Robert Sarver is completely ignorant of what it means to own a sports team. He may be a brilliant businessman, but the Suns aren't a real estate company and can't be run the same way. I don't know if he'll ever understand that, much to our detriment.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As much as we rag on Mark Cuban, he is going through the same thing. He's not a freewheeling spender anymore.

Baggage and all, I'd take Cuban in a heartbeat.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

People always point to the payroll because its FACT.

Facts!?!?

OK, how about the fact that the Suns are consistently one of the top money makers in the league. Or that Sarver has sold several draft picks for cash including RONDO. Or that every time a non-player deserves a raise Sarver sends him packing for a cheaper guy.

Yes, he has a top 6 payroll but he also traded KT AND two number ones for cap relief.

When Sarver took over the Suns I don't remember him having any kind of reputation for being cheap or inept but he certainly has one now.

 

[pokerface]

I know he's not stupid but I have no opinion on the arrogant charge. I'd agree that he's made some stupid decisions and like you, I'd love to see him sell the team to someone that can afford/is willing to be a little less bottom-line oriented.

Steve

For all of Sarvers stupidity he got the Suns into the WCF

 

[pokerface]

Facts!?!?

OK, how about the fact that the Suns are consistently one of the top money makers in the league. Or that Sarver has sold several draft picks for cash including RONDO. Or that every time a non-player deserves a raise Sarver sends him packing for a cheaper guy.

Yes, he has a top 6 payroll but he also traded KT AND two number ones for cap relief.

When Sarver took over the Suns I don't remember him having any kind of reputation for being cheap or inept but he certainly has one now.

It doesnt matter who he traded or who he sold....The Suns are top 10 in payroll and they were just in the WCF.....BE GREATEFUL

 

[Cheesebeef]

For all of Sarvers stupidity he got the Suns into the WCF

and what did he do for the man that helped him get there? He asked him to take a pay-cut. That's stupid in my book.

 

[pokerface]

and what did he do for the man that helped him get there? He asked him to take a pay-cut. That's stupid in my book.

Kerr was so so as a GM....Sarver might have better in mind. You dont know the whole story

 

[Cheesebeef]

It doesnt matter who he traded or who he sold....The Suns are top 10 in payroll and they were just in the WCF.....BE GREATEFUL

You say Kerr was just "so-so" yet he got the team to the WCF. Why can't Sarver BE GRATEFUL?

 

[pokerface]

You say Kerr was just "so-so" yet he got the team to the WCF. Why can't Sarver BE GRATEFUL?

Sarver is the owner...he doesnt have to be grateful. He and Kerr could have disagreed on things...who knows...you sure dont. You're just a fan speculating.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kerr was so so as a GM

I think Kerr started out really rough, got better over time and had really come into his own over the last year, reconstructing a team the NBA left for dead into a WCF team. To me, that's better than so-so... and if we're to use your "Sarver is a good owner who we should BE GRATEFUL for because he got us to the WCF", why should Kerr not be praised the same?

....Sarver might have better in mind. You dont know the whole story

Could be... or he could have someone cheaper in mind. As to "you don't know the whole story", we know a lot of it as it's been reported everywhere that front office morale is at an all-time low and Sarver wanted Kerr to take a contract which would be a pay-cut to what he made this year.

But I could be wrong. Time will tell. Until it does, I think he's an idiot who fashions the bottom line over going for a title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sarver is the owner...he doesnt have to be grateful.

You're right, he doesn't have to be... but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be grateful for those who make it possible for him to make a lot of money and make us successful. The attitude above is one I think that describes Sarver well and is one of the reasons that I don't think we've won a title.

He and Kerr could have disagreed on things...who knows...you sure dont. You're just a fan speculating.

you say this as if every single reporter hasn't reported on the fact that FO morale is at an all-time low and that he asked Kerr to take a pay-cut. That's not my speculation, it's everyone's who actually close with the Suns and I'll take their word over whatever hypothetical argument you want to make.

 

[pokerface]

It doesnt matter one bit if Sarver saves money here and there...only a stupid owner wouldnt. Sarver isnt Cuban or Allen...neither is Phoenix a big market like New YorK or LA. Sarver cant afford to be stupid with his money.

 

[binkar]

Phoenix, as a whole, is a very come-and-go fan base. If Sarver doesn't put forth the effort to continue to make this team a winner, the community will shut down on him and the Suns.

 

[taz02]

I'm sure it's a combiation of things. Sure everyone wants to be with their family. If that was the sole reason why did he even entertain negotiations for a new contract? 6 or 8 moths ago he would have let his FRIEND sarver know his intentions so the suns could better position themselves for such a critical offseason.

Kerr has clearly been hamstrung by financial constraints and sees the wrighting on the wall. The idea of him and his staff taking less than steller contracts, then taking the blame for letting amare walk and the team going from the wcf to the lottery is not only unappealing it's profesional suicide.

It feels like the capitan of the titanic slipping into a life boat saying he forgot his wallet on shore and needs to go get it just as he realizes the ship is going to hit the iceberg.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It doesnt matter one bit if Sarver saves money here and there...only a stupid owner wouldnt. Sarver isnt Cuban or Allen...neither is Phoenix a big market like New YorK or LA. Sarver cant afford to be stupid with his money.

you're right... as far as winning a title, you can't be afford to be stupid with your money. He was stupid with JJ and I believe it cost us a title or two. He was then stupid by trying to go cheap with an awful HC in Porter and that's costing us now. And now he's being stupid with Kerr and ultimately all these decisions will start effecting the bottom line. thank you for making my points for me. Sarver's stupid decisions with money have cost us titles and I believe in the near future, it's gonna cost him revenue.