For you Contract Wizards - Hopkins & Conner

[Chopper0080]

Yeah...it doesn't matter if the Cardinals cut or traded Hopkins, his 22.6 mil in prorated bonus still hits the cap. The only difference would be is if he was traded or cut post June 1, that 22.6 mil is split between 2023 and 2024 cap instead of just 2023.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What would happen is that you'd slot Hollywood into the #1 receiving role where he was very productive to start 2023 (and would allow you to pay him $15-24 million per year on an extension) and you sign Jakobi Meyers (NE), D.J. Chark (DET), or Parris Campbell (IND) to play opposite him. Use a mid-round draft pick on another big-bodied WR and let Rondale Moore compete with Greg Dortch for the slot role.

Instead of properly paying Hop as a top WR, you overpay Brown and a FA WR? Doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That was a move to appease KM, no?

I thought paying him a quarter bill was supposed to do that?

 

[Chopper0080]

Cutting or trading Conner would create nearly $10 million in dead money but save only $225,000. He can't really be moved until after next year. #keimtime

James Conner Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

James Conner contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Yup. You can cut Conner but there is no real point in doing so unless you just want him off the roster.

 

[Chopper0080]

Instead of properly paying Hop as a top WR, you overpay Brown and a FA WR? Doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

The real question is what can you get if you trade them both and how could you use that compensation to improve the roster? You might be able to get a 1st for Brown with how bad the FA market looks like it will be. You definitely can get a 1st for Hopkins and likely additional picks as well. The tough part is replacing the talent and production as well as Kyler's reaction to it.

I will continue to say it but Kyler is not good without Hopkins so moving him is a real issue for Kyler's future success.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I will continue to say it but Kyler is not good without Hopkins so moving him is a real issue for Kyler's future success.

Just like our D is much better with a healthy Watt. Now both are likely gone next year. Poverty franchise.

 

[kerouac9]

The real question is what can you get if you trade them both and how could you use that compensation to improve the roster? You might be able to get a 1st for Brown with how bad the FA market looks like it will be. You definitely can get a 1st for Hopkins and likely additional picks as well. The tough part is replacing the talent and production as well as Kyler's reaction to it.

I will continue to say it but Kyler is not good without Hopkins so moving him is a real issue for Kyler's future success.

I hate the idea of going Full Green Bay for Colt/Kyler next season; in a scenario where you move both Hollywood and Hop, you're investing at least one high pick at WR. Are you better off hoping that your <30% shot of that guy turning into a #1 pays off instead of paying more for certainty with either guy?

I'd take calls on Brown and if anyone's willing to give up a first for him, jump on it.

Instead of properly paying Hop as a top WR, you overpay Brown and a FA WR? Doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

It's not what I would do, it's what Keim would do and maybe what the Cards convince themselves to do. Hollywood looked good in that #1 role early in the year; I just don't think he's a complementary player — at least not to DHop.

 

[Harry]

Turn your phone sideways and you can see more information.

I'm not just talking cap. I'm talking cap and cash. I use those terms specifically in my post so that you can differentiate them.

The Cards won't pay DHop $30 million in 2023 no matter what. That's his Cap Number (Base Salary + Prorated Bonus). If DHop is on the roster for Week 1, he'll be guaranteed his full $19.45 million 2023 salary. The balance is the pro-rated amount of his original bonus + the option and roster bonuses that have already been paid but not accounted for under the cap.

If you cut Hop before 6/1 or trade him at anytime in 2023, you get hit with $22.6 million against the cap. I have no idea where you're getting a $14 million dead cap charge from.

And I'm setting aside replacing DHop's spot in this conversation because it wasn't germane to the fake news you were spreading.

What would happen is that you'd slot Hollywood into the #1 receiving role where he was very productive to start 2023 (and would allow you to pay him $15-24 million per year on an extension) and you sign Jakobi Meyers (NE), D.J. Chark (DET), or Parris Campbell (IND) to play opposite him. Use a mid-round draft pick on another big-bodied WR and let Rondale Moore compete with Greg Dortch for the slot role.

Pay was a bad choice of words. I meant to indicate they’d paid to have him. You’re correct the signing bonus was long ago given to Hopkins. I meant the cap hit would be $30 mil if he was kept, but I wanted to make it clear you’re saying in your scenario that Bidwill is okay with just forgetting about the $22 mil he paid Hopkins to play out the contract. The $14 mil is the net cap impact if he’s traded before 6/1. Since the total prorated bonus would accelerate to a total of $22 mil in 2023. The salary would not count against the cap so the hit would be S14 mil. net (22-8). That is the $22 mil bonus would be charged against the cap in 2023, but not the $8 mil salary. $14 mil is just a way of looking at it. The simple truth is there’s no big pool of cap money that is gained by trading Hopkins because the bonus exceeds the salary. That was my point.

As to your replacement theory, the whole topic was about the impact of cutting. How can you ignore the hole you’ve created? Spotrac projects Meyers will cost $12 mil a year. So your cap just shrunk even more. For Chark to be a FA the Lions would have to take a $6 mil dead money hit. Much more logical for them to re-sign him. There will be quite a bit of competition for Campbell but Spotrac does peg him at $2.5 mil. Which would net some savings but you have to get him. I’m not crazy about the idea of a big dollar contract extension for Brown, but that‘s an opinion. Still you’re at best comparing Brown & Hopkins verses Brown & Campbell. Which is the better threat? I like Dortch but as the third receiver. I can’t see Moore being depended on to replace Hopkins or maybe anyone else. Either of those options still leave you down a receiver.

In the end, what’s the point? Hopkins will play well because he’s a competitor. Even if he dogs it some next year, he’ll bust his tale in his contract year. In the end you’ve lowered the cap space, hurt the offense and possibly be reduced your return to a high second round pick in exchange.

 

[Devilmaycare]

That was a move to appease KM, no?

Doing that is a failure of leadership by the front office and coaching staff. If they had any of either Kyler would have been put in his place.

 

[FB94]

Cutting or trading Conner would create nearly $10 million in dead money but save only $225,000. He can't really be moved until after next year. #keimtime

James Conner Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

James Conner contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Keep Conner and get a speed back to complement him

 

[slanidrac16]

Keep Conner and get a speed back to complement him

Agree . And I’d be alright letting Brown go and find a bigger outside guy.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If, and it's a big if, we could recoup out #1 for Brown by trading him, and then grab TCU's Johnston to replace him?

As you can see, I am enamored with the Kid. I am going to hate seeing him ball for another team over the next 10 years (like I am going to live that long) knowing he could have been playing in a Cards' uniform.

 

[Harry]

While somewhat overpaid, the problem wasn’t keeping Connor, it was not keeping Edmonds. He was a perfect fit for this offense.

 

[kerouac9]

Connor really struggles to stay healthy with a pretty average workload. @Stout brought this up repeatedly when we signed and extended him.

Not having a better backup than Eno really came back to hurt us.

 

[Zalixar]

Connor really struggles to stay healthy with a pretty average workload. @Stout brought this up repeatedly when we signed and extended him.

Not having a better backup than Eno really came back to hurt us.

The othe option was Chase....who did absolutely nothing this year.

 

[kerouac9]

The othe option was Chase....who did absolutely nothing this year.

Spending all that money at RB would have been an even worse option.

 

[Zalixar]

Spending all that money at RB would have been an even worse option.

Well if we resigned neither the board would have went nuts. It was literally a lose-lose-lose situation.

 

[Stout]

Well if we resigned neither the board would have went nuts. It was literally a lose-lose-lose situation.

If only there was something called Free Agency and the Draft

 

[football karma]

I dont know who scouts RBs over on Hardy, but the one position where late round guys and UDFAs can come in a contribute quickly-- the RB room after Connor was not good.

apparently Eno was the first 6th round Diva in the league and Ingram hasnt shown much.

I love Connor -- i hate his contract though-- and his running style pretty much guarantees that he wont be available for 17 games

 

[Zalixar]

If only there was something called Free Agency and the Draft

As if that would have worked out well too.

Hindsight truly 20/20 on this one.

 

[Stout]

As if that would have worked out well too.

Hindsight truly 20/20 on this one.

Not for those of us against it in the first place. That is called foresight.

 

[Zalixar]

Not for those of us against it in the first place. That is called foresight.

You were against Connor and Chase? Draft a rb and/or FA rb in a "run it back year?" Who was your dream RB option?

Connor has been serviceable, but like everyone else, they sucked. No RB would have done well. Not on this team, this year.

Nice try being so smart.

 

[Stout]

You were against Connor and Chase? Draft a rb and/or FA rb in a "run it back year?" Who was your dream RB option?

Connor has been serviceable, but like everyone else, they sucked. No RB would have done well. Not on this team, this year.

Nice try being so smart.

I didn't want JC because he always gets injured and hurts his team. Last year his absence contributed to the late-season crash and burn. This season he's lost a lot of time due to injury as well. He's also a limited back. You don't throw money at him like that. Isn't he under contract again next year, too? *shudder*

I agree that this year the team sucked, period, but the contract hurt us too. I don't know who else we could've gotten because I'm not a GM and your whataboutism doesn't change the fact that JC wasn't a good high-dollar signing that I didn't want us to make. So, yes, I was smart in not wanting us to sign JC. Thank you for pointing it out.

 

[Zalixar]

I didn't want JC because he always gets injured and hurts his team. Last year his absence contributed to the late-season crash and burn. This season he's lost a lot of time due to injury as well. He's also a limited back. You don't throw money at him like that. Isn't he under contract again next year, too? *shudder*

I agree that this year the team sucked, period, but the contract hurt us too. I don't know who else we could've gotten because I'm not a GM and your whataboutism doesn't change the fact that JC wasn't a good high-dollar signing that I didn't want us to make. So, yes, I was smart in not wanting us to sign JC. Thank you for pointing it out.

He was a huge reason we were doing well last year in the first place (with an incredibly, ridiculously low salary). His contract didn't matter this year since it had nothing to do with us losing and a cheaper RB option wouldn't have changed our record (or the extra cap it provided)

My whataboutism? Haha. Tell us how some mystery rb would have totally worked in our favor and changed our fortunes.

Please give us a suck of this foresight nipple. Us plebs must see the light as we are so lost in the dark.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

All this is why I fantasy the Cards draft both Johnston, WR, TCU and Robinson, RB, Texas this year because in 2 yrs we would have gotten rid of both Conner and Hopkins. Letting them both go in the next 1 and 2 years, will have us in a good cap situation and already have 2 studs to replace them. Lots of teams will envy us having 2 so powerful offensive weapons, plus our mini-mouse QB who should have grown up by then.

Now don't go saying how we have other needs right now. I know all that, but having two studs and such important scoring positions on rookie contracts, frees us up in the next few drafts to not worry about those 2 positions, and concentrate solely on filling in our other needs. Besides the drafts, having CAP space should make that so much easier to do.

We don't have to get our starting DT, OL, and/or CBs all in this draft. What is the rush? You don't think we are going to compete next year do you?

We have 2 or 3 years to fill all the holes before we will be in a position to be a playoff type team. I prefer to look further down the road accepting the fact that the next year is already a lost year, and the year after that will still be a growing year. Thus that gives us 3 drafts to fix this team and be fully ready to do some serious damage when the 2025 season begins.