Franchise took a big step back today

[sdscard4]

I knew this thread was bait as soon as i saw the person who started it was wearing a shirt with the U Of A logo. Go Devils

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I see an average group playing average. If Kyler can't figure out that Brian Burns at 245 is going to abuse Mills off the edge, then he isn't very smart. You have to adjust to the matchups on the field. If your tackles are facing a bunch of speed off the edge, you have to adjust your drop in the NFL. An in-game adjustment I am sure he never had to make in college.

I saw times where there was immediate pressure.

I also saw times where Murray had a ton of time.

Most of the game was in between.

No QB I’ve ever played with had the latitude to adjust the called for drop on a play design. That’s not Murray’s call. That’s the playcallers responsibility. Now his failure to step up into what minimal pockets have been created is on him. But even there I find it difficult to blame him when he has a difficult time guessing when he’ll have a pocket or when he’ll step up into the Malachi Crunch!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hopefully Murray can do the same. That doesn't mean that those players were not part of the problem at the time as rookies either.

Criticism of Murray now does not mean that Murray can't be better later. I have yet to read anyone saying that. That doesn't mean the criticism now isn't valid. That doesn't mean that his play isn't underwhelming now. Until he shows he can step up, he hasn't done it. Once he does, the argument fades away.

Some people have faith and some need to see it first to believe it. I don't know why that is so frustrating for people.

I am guessing most people read your criticism as I do - holding him to a standard of a veteran. It’s like you just choose to ignore context. I’ve never read you constantly lambasting any rookie player they way you’re seemingly intent on doing so with kyler. It’s weord to me having read your posts for so long.

 

[sdscard4]

Game is totally differant in my opinion if Kirk makes the grab before half and jimmy sherfy catches the ball that went through his hands....yes i know i called him Sherfy. My buddy called him that when it happened and it was gold...atleast for me it was lol

 

[SoonerLou]

I am expecting to see a jump at sometime this year. If not, it will be pretty concerning.

I just think its about putting together 4 Qrts for him. Advanced metrics since the 4th Qrt against the Lions his QBR is close to 70 (very good)

Thats with being awful in the last Qrt and a half.

The last 2 4th Qrts and the first 3 Qrts against the Lions is what we can't have.

This is a marathon. Not a sprint. No one cares RG3 beat out Luck for ROY. No one cares Goff was awful his 1st year.

However, once he starts putting 4 Qrts together I think he can be special. He's gotta have a change up when teams take away his fastball (no pun intended)

 

[Chopper0080]

I am guessing most people read your criticism as I do - holding him to a standard of a veteran. It’s like you just choose to ignore context. I’ve never read you constantly lambasting any rookie player they way you’re seemingly intent on doing so with kyler. It’s weord to me having read your posts for so long.

I hold #1 picks in the draft to a higher standard. I hated the Isabella pick, and feel like we wasted that pick on a very flawed player. I think I wrote a post about 15 WRs I liked more than Isabella pre-draft. I expect a 2nd round WR to be able to get on the field and produce. It isn't getting on threads because people aren't arguing that he should get a rookie learning curve. In the case of Murray, people are and so I write more about it.

 

[dscher]

Hopefully Murray can do the same. That doesn't mean that those players were not part of the problem at the time as rookies either.

Criticism of Murray now does not mean that Murray can't be better later. I have yet to read anyone saying that. That doesn't mean the criticism now isn't valid. That doesn't mean that his play isn't underwhelming now. Until he shows he can step up, he hasn't done it. Once he does, the argument fades away.

Some people have faith and some need to see it first to believe it. I don't know why that is so frustrating for people.

Lol.. I like you... But you're crazy!

 

[SoonerLou]

Game is totally differant in my opinion if Kirk makes the grab before half and jimmy sherfy catches the ball that went through his hands....yes i know i called him Sherfy. My buddy called him that when it happened and it was gold...atleast for me it was lol

Yea Kyler probably doesn't start pressing and we probably rely on the run more in the 4th. Just unfortunate.

 

[Chopper0080]

I just think its about putting together 4 Qrts for him. Advanced metrics since the 4th Qrt against the Lions his QBR is close to 70 (very good)

Thats with being awful in the last Qrt and a half.

The last 2 4th Qrts and the first 3 Qrts against the Lions is what we can't have.

This is a marathon. Not a sprint. No one cares RG3 beat out Luck for ROY. No one cares Goff was awful his 1st year.

However, once he starts putting 4 Qrts together I think he can be special. He's gotta have change up when teams take away his fastball (no pun intended)

I would agree that I don't think Murray has much experience in adjusting his game due to what the defense is doing. You don't have to deal with that much on college teams like Oklahoma that has a huge talent advantage.

 

[Chopper0080]

No QB I’ve ever played with had the latitude to adjust the called for drop on a play design. That’s not Murray’s call. That’s the playcallers responsibility. Now his failure to step up into what minimal pockets have been created is on him. But even there I find it difficult to blame him when he has a difficult time guessing when he’ll have a pocket or when he’ll step up into the Malachi Crunch!

Not the amount of steps of the drop, the length you take in your steps.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am saying these are the same arguments that were made to keep Rosen. I should know, I made them.

No you are taking shots and KM because you seem to have hard feelings about Rosen.

 

[Chopper0080]

Lol.. I like you... But you're crazy!

I will admit, the Kyler debate triggers me.

I feel like people argue Kyler is playing well and it isn't his fault, but when you push back against that, they change the argument to he is just a rookie. When you point out that he was the number 1 pick, they argue that he needs time to develop and needs more support. When you point out that the argument to take him#1 was that he was ready made and would be able to overcome our roster's shortcomings, they say he is playing well and it isn't his fault.

 

[Chopper0080]

No you are taking shots and KM because you seem to have hard feelings about Rosen.

Where have I said that? There are plenty of threads where I agree that Kyler is playing better than Rosen ever did. If Kyler was playing well I would say that Kyler is playing well. I said it in the game thread about his first half. However, playing a good half and playing better than Rosen doesn't mean a player is playing well. Kyler isn't playing well right now. That isn't a shot, it is a fact. IF he was playing well, he would not have gotten outplayed by Kyle Allen today.

 

[sdscard4]

The only thing that was exposed today was Cam Newton. We are fine i have no worries....like i said house money

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hold #1 picks in the draft to a higher standard. I hated the Isabella pick, and feel like we wasted that pick on a very flawed player. I think I wrote a post about 15 WRs I liked more than Isabella pre-draft. I expect a 2nd round WR to be able to get on the field and produce. It isn't getting on threads because people aren't arguing that he should get a rookie learning curve. In the case of Murray, people are and so I write more about it.

I don’t get the concept of draft position increasing immediate expectations. You draft players for the long haul, not immediate dividends. Particularly when you’re the worst team in the league. Being picked #1 doesn’t give him any leg up on a rookie being picked at the end of the first round, the second round, or late round. In fact, unless the team that drafted him traded up for him it all but guarantees he’s likely stepping into the absolute worst circumstances of all the rookies.

 

[dscher]

I will admit, the Kyler debate triggers me.

I feel like people argue Kyler is playing well and it isn't his fault, but when you push back against that, they change the argument to he is just a rookie. When you point out that he was the number 1 pick, they argue that he needs time to develop and needs more support. When you point out that the argument to take him#1 was that he was ready made and would be able to overcome our roster's shortcomings, they say he is playing well and it isn't his fault.

One down. A dozen or so to go.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not the amount of steps of the drop, the length you take in your steps.

I know you know that every aspect of dropping is drilled to be mechanically identical. Purposefully so in order to be repeatable and to create and maintain proper timing. What you’re suggesting isn’t a thing. In fact it’s the antithesis of what QBs are trained to do.

 

[Covert Rain]

Where have I said that? There are plenty of threads where I agree that Kyler is playing better than Rosen ever did. If Kyler was playing well I would say that Kyler is playing well. I said it in the game thread about his first half. However, playing a good half and playing better than Rosen doesn't mean a player is playing well. Kyler isn't playing well right now. That isn't a shot, it is a fact. IF he was playing well, he would not have gotten outplayed by Kyle Allen today.

I think you should re-read some of what you posted. You go beyond facts and act like KM should be better than a rookie. It was pointed out to you that in the past really good QBs in the NFL had slow starts. KM has in fact been playing well in spurts. He has also shows the same tendencies that a rookie QB is expected to show. Doesn't mean he wasn't worthy of the #1 pick.

It's like you have a chub to criticize him. How about this. Accept that he is a rookie who is going to make mistakes and as long as he shows flashes of why he was drafted at that position stop being so triggered about it. He was always going to make mistakes. He was always going to look like a rookie at some point.

 

[dscher]

I don’t get the concept of draft position increasing immediate expectations. You draft players for the long haul, not immediate dividends. Particularly when you’re the worst team in the league. Being picked #1 doesn’t give him any leg up on a rookie being picked at the end of the first round, the second round, or late round. In fact, unless the team that drafted him traded up for him it all but guarantees he’s likely stepping into the absolute worst circumstances of all the rookies.

Chopper needs 3/4 Mahomes type qb play to be satisfied... Some need more.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don’t get the concept of draft position increasing immediate expectations. You draft players for the long haul, not immediate dividends. Particularly when you’re the worst team in the league. Being picked #1 doesn’t give him any leg up on a rookie being picked at the end of the first round, the second round, or late round. In fact, unless the team that drafted him traded up for him it all but guarantees he’s likely stepping into the absolute worst circumstances of all the rookies.

This X 1000.

 

[dogpoo32]

Jesus christ. I'm a pessimist by nature, but you guys are reminding me why I stopped checking this place. We're worth watching again, and that counts for something. Win or lose, at least poo feels different. It finally feels like we're building towards something.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[sdscard4]

Jesus christ. I'm a pessimist by nature, but you guys are reminding me why I stopped checking this place. We're worth watching again, and that counts for something. Win or lose, at least **** feels different. It finally feels like we're building towards something.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Lol obviously we forget the Kent Grahams...Stan Gelbaughs...Hogadoom and Jim Mcmahon....Wilks days. Life is good right now

 

[Chopper0080]

I think you should re-read some of what you posted. You go beyond facts and act like KM should be better than a rookie. It was pointed out to you that in the past really good QBs in the NFL had slow starts. KM has in fact been playing well in spurts. He has also shows the same tendencies that a rookie QB is expected to show. Doesn't mean he wasn't worthy of the #1 pick.

It's like you have a chub to criticize him. How about this. Accept that he is a rookie who is going to make mistakes and as long as he shows flashes of why he was drafted at that position stop being so triggered about it. He was always going to make mistakes. He was always going to look like a rookie at some point.

I put this in another thread, but I feel it is appropriate here.

After McCaffery's run which put the Panthers up 8 with around two minutes left in the 3rd Q.

5 drives.

15 plays.

Negative 12 yards.

3 punts.

2 INTs.


How am I being unrealistic to expert better than this? How can anyone defend this? QBs with bad offensive lines do better than negative 12 yards. QBs with rookie play callers do better than negative 12 yards. QBs with bad defenses do better than negative 12 yards.

 

[Covert Rain]

New
I put this in another thread, but I feel it is appropriate here.

After McCaffery's run which put the Panthers up 8 with around two minutes left in the 3rd Q.

5 drives.

15 plays.

Negative 12 yards.

3 punts.

2 INTs.

And? Who is disputing the poor play, poor play calling, the defense putting the offense in a horrible position or any number of things that went wrong?

The sky is blue.

 

[Chopper0080]

And? Who is disputing the poor play, poor play calling, the defense putting the offense in a horrible position or any number of things that went wrong?

The sky is blue.

So many people on this board arguing that this is normal for rookies who were drafted #1 overall.

Did you read this thread?