Free Agency 2018

AzStevenCal

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S&T with Warren was my first thought but one of Chriss/Bender is still on the outs unless they don’t plan on playing Ariza or Bridges more than 10 mpg...

If we let Williams go, maybe they plan on playing Bender and/or Chriss as backup center this season? I expect them to try and move one of them but I don't know if they'll find a deal that makes sense.
 

Mainstreet

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I like Warren more than most of the posters here but I'm okay with moving on. He's just had too many mysterious "injuries" in his short career and with Bridges poised to take his place, we might as well trade him for a PG.

I'm not against trading Warren for a PG... just not Van Vleet.
 

jlove

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Dudley is gonna get an front office job, Public Relations, with the Suns when he calls it quits. Maybe that time is now?
 

Mainstreet

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Dudley is gonna get an front office job, Public Relations, with the Suns when he calls it quits. Maybe that time is now?

If the Suns do not trade Dudley, they will probably want to keep him on the roster to create CAP space next season with Chandler, Dudley and Ariza expiring.
 

DevonCardsFan

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You make a valid point, but you shouldn't include Dudley. I don't imagine he'll be a rotation player with or without Ariza.

I just mean salary wise he's there Dudley/Chandler are 23 mil of expiring. I am talking salary and who is moved for a trade to land a PG
 

Mainstreet

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If Bordow is right, this is not much CAP space next off season.

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So let's do something now via trade.

Also it makes the Ariza signing less appealing.
 

Proximo

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I think I would rather keep TJ.

Why?

Do you think Bridges will suck or something?

Honestly I do not think there will be any minutes for Warren, to me he is clearly, clearly the worst of the 4 wings.

Quite frankly I want him gone - he does not fit with the new offense because he cannot shoot, and he cannot defend.
 

Folster

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If Bordow is right, this is not much CAP space next off season.

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So let's do something now via trade.

Also it makes the Ariza signing less appealing.

That's not right. I can't run the numbers right now, but I'm estimating we'll have between 20-30m in cap space assuming we renounce all expirings.
 

Mainstreet

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Why?

Do you think Bridges will suck or something?

Honestly I do not think there will be any minutes for Warren, to me he is clearly, clearly the worst of the 4 wings.

Quite frankly I want him gone - he does not fit with the new offense because he cannot shoot, and he cannot defend.

What's not to like about a 20 point, 5 rebound player coming off the bench? This is how I view Warren.
 

Mainstreet

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That's not right. I can't run the numbers right now, but I'm estimating we'll have between 20-30m in cap space assuming we renounce all expirings.

This is what I thought as well, otherwise the expiring contracts of Chandler, Dudley and Ariza does not help much the next free agency.

Also I thought it would behoove the Suns to sign a top player before they max out Booker.
 

Hoop Head

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If Bordow is right, this is not much CAP space next off season.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media


So let's do something now via trade.

Also it makes the Ariza signing less appealing.

That's not right. I can't run the numbers right now, but I'm estimating we'll have between 20-30m in cap space assuming we renounce all expirings.

@Mr. Boldin and I both ran the numbers the other day, I was responding to something Pokerface said about our cap space next year and these are the posts, I run things through and then he did, we both came up with very similar numbers though. I believe it's about $24 million in cap space, at the most, and that's resigning Booker to the max and letting everyone else walk.

Of course with Ariza being simply a 1 year deal, his numbers not being included shouldn't really matter in this.


I'm not seeing that much available space without a sizable cap increase. As things are now, the cap will be $108 million in 2019. We'll have a better idea of what will be next week when the 2018 cap is set. That's a fairly close estimate though. We have about $54 million in contracts that don't include Booker's extension or Ayton, Bridges, and Okobo. I won't bother trying to fit King, that's $1 million bucks at the most.

Jokic signed his max for an estimated 5 years/$147 million. Bookers will be pretty close to that also. Both are young and coming off rookie deals and neither meet the super max qualifiers so they get 25% of the cap. That will start his contract off at approximately $27 million. Add that to the $54 and you're looking at a $81 million payroll without counting the rookies. Fultz makes $8.4 million for his 2nd year as the #1 overall pick and Zach Collins makes $3.7 as the #10 pick, throw in $1 million for Okobo also. That will go up a little bit but $13 million for all 3 seems fair, if not low. That's $94 million without counting minimum cap holds, rookie holds for any picks we make in next years draft. So we'd be at $24 million in cap space, at the absolute most. That's without cap holds or rookie salaries from next year, so it's probably about $5-6 million less than that. Stretching Knight helps but that might just get us to $30 million in cap space or so.

I don't believe the figure Espo is quoting is factoring in this year's rookies. Don't take "insiders" like Espo's word for it though, or mine, look it up yourself. After what Espo pulled today, I don't put much stock in anything he says*. I can't argue with math but the numbers he's posted don't add up right. I'm not saying I am an authority or anything but the figures are out there to do the math on your own. I tried to link all mentions of salaries I could, like Fultz and Collins for reference, and here's the 2019 payroll for the Suns.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/phoenix-suns/cap/2019/


*Espo teased last night that the free agent signing period would start today for the Suns, after retweeting the other message from another "fan" saying that the first piece would fall today to figure out where Lebron is headed because the Suns were making a deal. Today, when it came time to say what was happening, Espo said he signed with Bright Side of the Suns to cover the Suns. That was his big tease about the Suns free agent period would start today. Total bait and switch move that's rather hokey. If his math was right though, I'd agree with him because there's really no disputing that but it doesn't appear to be and it seems like he's missing close to the amount our recent draft picks would cover, which would explain the $12 million discrepancy. They're not listed on salaries on Spotrac either, so it's an easy thing to overlook.

Yeah, with cap holds for #1 picks next year, $30 mil is more likely. Booker would need to take less than max, cap would need to exceed $108 mil, or Suns would need to trade their #1s or draft rights before using cap space, to add more money available.

Decline team options on Bender, Chriss, Ulis, Harrison (-$13.24 mil)
Stretch Knight, double the years remaining +1 (-$10.43 mil; cap hit of $5.21 mil over three years)
Waive Williams whom is nonguaranteed (-$5.52 mil)
Waive Reed, whom is nonguaranteed (-$1.61 mil)

Booker @ $27 mil
Warren @ $10.81 mil
Ayton @ $9.48 mil
Jackson @ $7.06 mil
Bridges @ $4.32 mil
Okobo ~$1.4 mil
Minimum roster charge @~$1 mil x 6 = $6 mil
Stretch charge for Knight of $5.21 mil

Total team salary = $71.28
Cap available ($108 mil cap) = ~$36.72 mil (pending exact figured on Oboko deal, rookie minimum roster charges. Not including first round pick slot cap holds)
 

Proximo

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What's not to like about a 20 point, 5 rebound player coming off the bench? This is how I view Warren.

Those points are going to be scored by Ayton and Bridges and Ariza.

I don't think he would even see the court this season.

Jackson will be better, I think Bridges will be better than him immediately and certainly is a better player to not be involved in the offense. They still have to find minutes for Bender, and Knight can easily be the spark for the bench unit.

The only reason he got those numbers is because we were scoring talent deprived last year.
 

Mainstreet

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Those points are going to be scored by Ayton and Bridges and Ariza.

I don't think he would even see the court this season.

Jackson will be better, I think Bridges will be better than him immediately and certainly is a better player to not be involved in the offense. They still have to find minutes for Bender, and Knight can easily be the spark for the bench unit.

The only reason he got those numbers is because we were scoring talent deprived last year.

I think our difference is you are comparing Warren to other players. I'm saying let's not trade a quality player away in Warren for peanuts. I'd rather for him to ride the bench until a equitable trade comes along.
 

Proximo

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I think our difference is you are comparing Warren to other players. I'm saying let's not trade a quality player away in Warren for peanuts. I'd rather for him to ride the bench until a equitable trade comes along.

It's not just that - I really do not think Warren is worthy of the contract we gave him, and I want to unload it.

He is just not a player you should want on your team. He is a defensive liability, he cannot space the floor, and he isn't a distributor. He's a one trick pony, that really does not fit well in the modern NBA. I just don't think he helps any team win.
 

SunsTzu

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If Bordow is right, this is not much CAP space next off season.

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So let's do something now via trade.

Also it makes the Ariza signing less appealing.

I'm showing 20 mil next year with the guys on rookie deals, TJ and a maxed out Devin. That was with stretching Knight next year and including the 2019 #1 draft pick. If we don't include next years draft pick it's just shy of 30mil in cap space.

I expect this to change as I see a trade(s) involving TJ and possible Knight going down and depending on what the Suns get back it could either eat into it or create even more cap.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm showing 20 mil next year with the guys on rookie deals, TJ and a maxed out Devin. That was with stretching Knight next year and including the 2019 #1 draft pick. If we don't include next years draft pick it's just shy of 30mil in cap space.

I expect this to change as I see a trade(s) involving TJ and possible Knight going down and depending on what the Suns get back it could either eat into it or create even more cap.

This is so much better than what Bordow thought it would look like. He will probably take a fresh look at it tomorrow.
 

Mainstreet

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It's not just that - I really do not think Warren is worthy of the contract we gave him, and I want to unload it.

He is just not a player you should want on your team. He is a defensive liability, he cannot space the floor, and he isn't a distributor. He's a one trick pony, that really does not fit well in the modern NBA. I just don't think he helps any team win.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I guess we will need to agree to disagree. I thought Warren's contract was a bargain.
 

Folster

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There was no reason to panic and reach just to sign a point guard. Take a look at next year's free agent crop at pg.

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Some nice restricted options too.
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Hoop Head

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$20-$25 million in cap space next season is a strong possibility, unloading Chriss and/or Warren could help that number go up a good amount. Adding Milwaukee's pick to the roster next year will sort of offset Chriss being traded, if he's traded for zero salary beyond this season. It seems like it might actually be easier to create cap space next offseason than this year though. Since Knight will be on the final year of his deal that opens up the possibility of him being stretched and waived. Although i think it's more likely they'd dump him with the Milwaukee pick if they had somebody targeted in FA next year. Doing that would create actual max cap space, not just Booker level max either but Lebron sort of max money in the $33 million dollar range.
 

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