Free Agency 2018

[ColdPickleNachos]

The Suns have to act like they're good with BK as the starting PG. They're probably not fooling anybody but they still need to try as hard as they can to not look desperate.

Yeah. That's the reasonable explanation and exactly what they should be doing. I just worry because I could see them deciding to stand pat if an opportunity doesn't present itself on the notion that they will get their guy next offseason. That makes some sense, but having a guy at point guard to put the young stars in the right position to succeed and develop this year is crucial. Knight is not that guy.

 

[Hoop Head]

I do think Payton can be a starter for some teams including the Suns. So I'm not just looking at the Suns roster. For the price, he would have been a steal. There must have been other issues beyond not shooting 3's at a high percentage.

I think the reason they didn't keep Payton is because it would have cost us more than anyone else. We basically had to sign him to his QO or let him walk. I think the QO was like $7 million, so it makes sense why they let him go. If he was an unrestricted free agent then I could see them keeping his cap hold on our books to try and negotiate a new deal. We could have done that anyways while the QO was extended but what reason would he have to take a 2-3 year deal around 3 million a year when he could have made almost all of it by signing the 1 year qualifying offer instead? Just sort of NBA salary juggling. Sometimes, rarely, it's not good to have the player's bird rights. Mainly when they're set to be restricted free agents.

I could be wrong but I don't think there was a way to keep him without extending the QO first, to make him a restricted free agent initially.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Trust me I've seen him play a lot. Yes he passes the ball very well and I've said that but other than that he does nothing well. Lebron James will be your primary ball handler in the half court set up as he's done his entire career he's way more Magic than Mike. So with Lebron being your playmaker you need to be able to knock down a shot when you get the ball and Lonzo just can't do that its the truth

Save me the whole he'll get better thing. Lebron is 33 hrs about right now not later. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ball wasn't on the team come trade deadline

I don’t disagree with you that ball is less than ideal pairing with lebron. But it’s not because he needs the ball in his hands. That’s the only comment I disagree with.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don’t disagree with you that ball is less than ideal pairing with lebron. But it’s not because he needs the ball in his hands. That’s the only comment I disagree with.

While I agree that Ball is not a ballhog, I have to disagree that he doesn't need the ball in his hands. His best attribute is passing and if he never really has the ball in his hands that aspect of his game is extremely limited.

 

[Proximo]

I heard this point made on the radio, and I think it's a good one.

Elfrid Payton is inconsistent. He's excellent one night, and then really bad the next. It's hard to build a culture of success when your starting point guard can't be relied on to bring it every night.

Yes, this is true.

Call me crazy but I don't really think Payton is much better than Ulis, and we can still sign him for the minimum if we want.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I heard this point made on the radio, and I think it's a good one.

Elfrid Payton is inconsistent. He's excellent one night, and then really bad the next. It's hard to build a culture of success when your starting point guard can't be relied on to bring it every night.

I think he is a Loon of some sort. There was something not right in his head (not just on it).

 

[Ronin]

Report: Sixers re-sign JJ Redick to 1-year deal
The Sixers on Monday re-signed Redick to a one-year deal worth between $12 million and $13 million, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.

http://www.mcall.com/sports/basketball/sixers/mc-spt-sixers-jj-redick-returns-20180702-story.html

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

While I agree that Ball is not a ballhog, I have to disagree that he doesn't need the ball in his hands. His best attribute is passing and if he never really has the ball in his hands that aspect of his game is extremely limited.

I don’t think you understand what the phrase “he needs the ball in his hands” means traditionally.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don’t think you understand what the phrase “he needs the ball in his hands” means traditionally.

I'm well aware that it tends to be a negative connotation that means that said player is a ballhog (which I specifically stated I don't believe he is), but that ultimately doesn't mean that he doesn't need the ball in his hands.

I can't think of a situation in the entire league where Ball could be effective off the ball. Unless he vastly improves as a spot-up shooter and slasher he is useless without the ball in his hands.

 

[Finito]

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Hopefully he's a good locker room guy

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Oh god...

It not being close or imminent doesn’t mean nothing will happen. Can we at least let the new season get to a week old before we assume the moves are over?

This team has 1000 Forwards, the worst player in the NBA in efficiency and he literally makes people worse while on the floor. The cap space is take up by Trevor freaking Ariza, it take away any trade flexibility and our bargain offers die to most teams not having cap space. Ariza isn't a deciding factor on playoffs ot not. It's a terrible move, limits the team and with such a young team they need a Facilitator to run the whole show, but Mr I spent my whole tax return on another forward McD went hard and spent it all. Terrible signing

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm well aware that it tends to be a negative connotation that means that said player is a ballhog (which I specifically stated I don't believe he is), but that ultimately doesn't mean that he doesn't need the ball in his hands.

I can't think of a situation in the entire league where Ball could be effective off the ball. Unless he vastly improves as a spot-up shooter and slasher he is useless without the ball in his hands.

I've never seen a true point guard that needed the ball in his hands less. Sure, he needs to touch it often but he doesn't pound the ball, he moves it right away. He's not even in search of the assist, he just makes the right pass right away. I understand your point, he can't do what you'd typically want to see from someone playing off the ball but he is never going to be too ball dominant to play with someone like Lebron.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This team has 1000 Forwards, the worst player in the NBA in efficiency and he literally makes people worse while on the floor. The cap space is take up by Trevor freaking Ariza, it take away any trade flexibility and our bargain offers die to most teams not having cap space. Ariza isn't a deciding factor on playoffs ot not. It's a terrible move, limits the team and with such a young team they need a Facilitator to run the whole show, but Mr I spent my whole tax return on another forward McD went hard and spent it all. Terrible signing

I've never been a fan of Ariza but every talking head I've listened to just raves about his acquisition. Personally, I think we greatly overpaid but it's a one year deal so that alone has value. And at least it kept us from making an even worse mistake.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I've never seen a true point guard that needed the ball in his hands less. Sure, he needs to touch it often but he doesn't pound the ball, he moves it right away. He's not even in search of the assist, he just makes the right pass right away. I understand your point, he can't do what you'd typically want to see from someone playing off the ball but he is never going to be too ball dominant to play with someone like Lebron.

He needs it more than a lot of other PGs IMO. His only real attribute on offense is his passing (not ball handling or shooting or slashing) by definition he needs to touch the ball in order to make a pass, but he is hurting the offense when he isn't touching the ball because he isn't particularly good at any of the things that you need to do when you don't have the ball, like spot up shooting and slashing. A lot of the other PGs in the league are good enough shooters that they can spot up off the ball.

 

[Chaplin]

This team has 1000 Forwards, the worst player in the NBA in efficiency and he literally makes people worse while on the floor. The cap space is take up by Trevor freaking Ariza, it take away any trade flexibility and our bargain offers die to most teams not having cap space. Ariza isn't a deciding factor on playoffs ot not. It's a terrible move, limits the team and with such a young team they need a Facilitator to run the whole show, but Mr I spent my whole tax return on another forward McD went hard and spent it all. Terrible signing

I don't think you understand the value of Trevor Ariza.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He needs it more than a lot of other PGs IMO. His only real attribute on offense is his passing (not ball handling or shooting or slashing) by definition he needs to touch the ball in order to make a pass, but he is hurting the offense when he isn't touching the ball because he isn't particularly good at any of the things that you need to do when you don't have the ball, like spot up shooting and slashing. A lot of the other PGs in the league are good enough shooters that they can spot up off the ball.

Yeah, we're not connecting. You're saying he needs it more than other PGs because he can't do the other things. We're saying that as a point guard, doing just the traditional point guard things, he doesn't need the ball for long periods. He finds the right pass, right away. Maybe he won't match well with Lebron but it won't be for what he does as a point guard - it will be for what he can't do other than setting up teammates. JMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think you understand the value of Trevor Ariza.

I guess I don't either. Well, I see his value when it comes to setting the right example and playing hard but I think 15 mil is about double what his skills warrant. He's a great role player, like Tucker was when he was completely focused on basketball (as opposed to his last 2 seasons with us) but neither one of them are anywhere near the Draymond Green class.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I don't think you understand the value of Trevor Ariza.

I don't think you understand the value and need of a PG for this team. He is in essence the QB for this team, Ayton is a big, who needs to be fed, teamed up with a bunch of catch and shoot guys, a bunch of youngsters at that. Suns didn't need Ariza they have 5000 forwards. This team has 2 PGs one who is garbage coming off missing the season and a 2nd Rd pick, that is a recipe for disaster.


Why Ariza over Vanvleet? I thought this was a signing with another move lined up. Ariza, Jackson, Bridges, Warren, Dudley, Chriss, Bender, King there all Forwards hahahahha now you have Ayton Chandler and Knight and Odoko and this team is created by a crazy person. The last thing this team needed was Ariza to eat the cap space

 

[1tinsoldier]

never before has a player with such limited assets and considerable baggage, on another team, taken up so much space on multiple threads in a Sun forum, when there is no reason to speculate that he will ever become a Sun

drop the Ball, please

 

[Finito]

never before has a player with such limited assets and considerable baggage, on another team, taken up so much space on multiple threads in a Sun forum, when there is no reason to speculate that he will ever become a Sun

drop the Ball, please

Honestly it's getting supper annoying all the talk about Ball.

 

[Hoop Head]

Honestly it's getting supper annoying all the talk about Ball.

I thought it would move to the Lebron thread, at least, if it continued at all. Since we blew all of our cash on Ariza though Ball is just not an option. It can even be said that once his injury and surgery became public knowledge that the possibility of adding him had gone away.

I really don't care how Ball and Lebron co-exist in LA. I hope Lavar and Lebron come to blows in the locker room. It makes no difference to me and it doesn't effect the Suns either. They could work, they could suck, it won't effect our season. The last thing that was going to happen was the Lakers literally gifting him to Suns, who are a division rival that are loaded with young talent already and are a team they'll be competing with in a year or two when all of our young players start hitting their strides as their young players are doing the same. I know they wanted cap space but it was unlikely they were getting Leonard anyways. The Spurs have stayed consistent in their comments about sending him East.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't think you understand the value and need of a PG for this team. He is in essence the QB for this team, Ayton is a big, who needs to be fed, teamed up with a bunch of catch and shoot guys, a bunch of youngsters at that. Suns didn't need Ariza they have 5000 forwards. This team has 2 PGs one who is garbage coming off missing the season and a 2nd Rd pick, that is a recipe for disaster.


Why Ariza over Vanvleet? I thought this was a signing with another move lined up. Ariza, Jackson, Bridges, Warren, Dudley, Chriss, Bender, King there all Forwards hahahahha now you have Ayton Chandler and Knight and Odoko and this team is created by a crazy person. The last thing this team needed was Ariza to eat the cap space

What is so difficult here?? Van Fleet would be nearly as much per year AND would be over multiple years, otherwise Toronto would have matched. That's pretty much common sense.

And AGAIN (and again, and again), the Suns said after the draft that they had 2 needs, PG and stretch 4. Whether you think he is a stretch 4 or not, it's clear the Suns think he can man that spot, and he will be better at that position, even at his size, over all the other possibilities. Ariza was never mentioned by the Suns before because nobody thought he'd only take a one-year deal.