Gambo: Kieff wants out, won't talk to players or coaches

slinslin

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The other trades Pelton suggested were basically

Kieff to Portland for Vonleh

Kieff to Lakers for Randle+crap

Kieff to Toronto for Patrick Patterson

Kieff to Charlotte for Cody Zeller
 

Chaplin

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The other trades Pelton suggested were basically

Kieff to Portland for Vonleh

Kieff to Lakers for Randle+crap

Kieff to Toronto for Patrick Patterson

Kieff to Charlotte for Cody Zeller

As much as I hate helping the Lakers, I'd definitely ship him there if it gets Randle back.
 

slinslin

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I like the Vonleh trade more, I think Vonleh is a better prospect than Randle.

Pattrick Patterson seems like maybe the safest trade I have seen. He is solid at least.
 

JCSunsfan

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Markieff was the Suns premiere player last year along with Bledsoe. He is right on that. That is the least problematic thing he said.

He was in the top 30 in real +/- in the entire NBA.

Markeiff #27 (6th among all PFs - ahead of Griffin, Love, Favors, Ibaka..)
Bledsoe #18 (6th among all PGs - ahead of Irving, Lowry, Ellis)


This is true. He will do well after he is traded as well. I see the accusations of inconsistency and I cringe. He was our most consistent player last year.

Just because you don't LIKE a player doesn't make him a bad player. I don't like Keef and would not mind trading him but I want to be realistic about his value.
 

slinslin

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There are just not that many power forwards in the NBA that are clearly better than Markieff...

Davis
Griffin
Aldridge
Millsap
Love
Randolph
Ibaka
Draymond Green
Favors
Bosh

That is probably about it.. maybe Nowitzki for another year but maybe not. That would put Markieff around #10-12 among power forwards.

And not all of these power forwards are well rounded so the differentiation between them is not so easy and depends on the team needs and fit alongside the center.
 
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elindholm

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There are just not that many power forwards in the NBA that are clearly better than Markieff...

Davis
Griffin
Aldridge
Millsap
Love
Randolph
Ibaka
Draymond Green
Favors
Bosh

That is probably about it.. maybe Nowitzki for another year but maybe not. That would put Markieff around #10-12 among power forwards.

And not all of these power forwards are well rounded so the differentiation between them is not so easy and depends on the team needs and fit alongside the center.

I would agree with that. But every player on that list is a better rebounder than Morris, and most of them are much better. Do you think Morris is capable of becoming an above-average rebounder for a starting PF? To me that's a crippling weakness. He had only 12 double-digit rebound games all last season.
 

slinslin

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He is a below average rebounder but on the other hand he is a much better offensive player than Favors or Ibaka for example.

His career trajectory is similiar to that of Paul Millsap, David Lee or David West. So it is possible that he can be an allstar some day.
 

RON_IN_OC

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I would say he has positive trade value being young and on a good contract. Just the one run-in with the law. The techs and the clown circus should go away with a fresh start. I hope we can package him off to get a starter. Bye bye dork!

Pretty sad that this gets included as a positive.
 

Mainstreet

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I like the Vonleh trade more, I think Vonleh is a better prospect than Randle.

Pattrick Patterson seems like maybe the safest trade I have seen. He is solid at least.

If the Suns traded with the Raptors I'd consider trading Markieff for Patrick Paterson, Lucas Nogueira and a first round pick.
 

CardsFan88

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He didn't say he was the premiere player on the team. He said he was a premiere player. The best player on the team.

There are probably only 3-5 premiere players in the league, and he isn't close to being one of them. Premiere basically means Superstar.

Even best player on the team is debatable, and it's not saying much since we haven't made the playoffs in five years and the main point we've all be saying for the past few years is.... we need a superstar because we don't have one.

We've got 2nd and 3rd tier guys, which is where he belongs (2nd tier for him)
 

Mainstreet

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He didn't say he was the premiere player on the team. He said he was a premiere player. The best player on the team.

There are probably only 3-5 premiere players in the league, and he isn't close to being one of them. Premiere basically means Superstar.

Even best player on the team is debatable, and it's not saying much since we haven't made the playoffs in five years and the main point we've all be saying for the past few years is.... we need a superstar because we don't have one.

We've got 2nd and 3rd tier guys, which is where he belongs (2nd tier for him)

Actually this is a quote from a Paul Coro article at azcentral dated 8-12-15.

"If you are going to do something, do it," Markieff told the Inquirer. "The GM (McDonough), I've been there longer than him, the coaches, everybody. I've been there the longest, and I don't get the respect to be like, 'Yo Keef, we are going to trade your brother. You are our future power forward.' I'm the future power forward. I'm the premier player of the team. … That's just how business is done I guess."

However I never thought Markieff was the premier player of the Suns. It just never crossed my mind. IMO, the Suns hopes lay with Bledsoe, Knight and Len.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor.../markieff-morris-wants-out--phoenix/31511557/
 

slinslin

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But he is/was clearly the best or second best player on the team after Bledsoe.

He is also young and on a bargain contract and an above average starter at his position.

He should have more actual value than Dragic had (younger, long term signed for cheap, similiar rank at his position).
Giving him up for cheap like swapping for Ilyasova would be very bad for the Suns.

That would be the first trade that McDonough does that really diminishes the teams assets. The Knight trade might have been but turned out good for the Suns most likely.

Even in the Marcus salary dump we did good.
 

Mainstreet

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But he is/was clearly the best or second best player on the team after Bledsoe.

He is also young and on a bargain contract and an above average starter at his position.

He should have more actual value than Dragic had (younger, long term signed for cheap, similiar rank at his position).
Giving him up for cheap like swapping for Ilyasova would be very bad for the Suns.

That would be the first trade that McDonough does that really diminishes the teams assets. The Knight trade might have been but turned out good for the Suns most likely.

Even in the Marcus salary dump we did good.

This would be a bad trade unless the Suns get something attractive coming back like a couple of first round picks. However, Ersan Ilyasova is a team option for next season.
 

Errntknght

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Markieff was the Suns premiere player last year along with Bledsoe. He is right on that. That is the least problematic thing he said.

He was in the top 30 in real +/- in the entire NBA.

Markeiff #27 (6th among all PFs - ahead of Griffin, Love, Favors, Ibaka..)
Bledsoe #18 (6th among all PGs - ahead of Irving, Lowry, Ellis)

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in Markieff's real plus minus last year. I did an analysis of the lineups Phoenix used last season and Markieff got nearly all of his minutes with the best lineups - much more so than anyone else. With most of the rather large number of bad lineups he got zero minutes. That was borne out by the fact that his off floor stats were much better than his on floor ones - off floor stats being good for a player means, of course, the team stats were bad.

The year before his real plus minus was negative - a year in which the Goran-Frye pairing led the plus/minus parade for us, and Markieff was seldom on the floor with them. IMO, he played better that year - he took it to hoop much more often and got to the FT correspondingly more.
 

BC867

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Paola Boivin of AzCentral/AzRepublic sports wrote a motivational article entitled, "Suns need to find way to make Morris relationship work."

She points out the bads and goods of Markeiff. In general, a fan might think that, if the Suns could find a way to make the relationship work, it would be a plus to keep him.

'Sorry, Paola. I don't buy it. If the Suns could have found a way to make the relationship work, they would have. Your qualifier disqualifies the hope.

Whether Markieff fakes it for awhile or even takes a few steps forward, he is what he is. A malcontent with an unreasonable opinion of his antics.

If we would consider the project of rebuilding him, we'd be better off building a Power Forward who can rebound who already has a positive attitude.

I wonder if the Suns Front Office had any input in this subliminal message to the public. The public for which Markieff stated no respect.

Nice try but, as I said, I don't buy it. I have no confidence in trying to make him a project.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...d-way-make-morris-relationship-work/31569195/
 

overseascardfan

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Paola Boivin of AzCentral/AzRepublic sports wrote a motivational article entitled, "Suns need to find way to make Morris relationship work."

She points out the bads and goods of Markeiff. In general, a fan might think that, if the Suns could find a way to make the relationship work, it would be a plus to keep him.

'Sorry, Paola. I don't buy it. If the Suns could have found a way to make the relationship work, they would have. Your qualifier disqualifies the hope.

Whether Markieff fakes it for awhile or even takes a few steps forward, he is what he is. A malcontent with an unreasonable opinion of his antics.

If we would consider the project of rebuilding him, we'd be better off building a Power Forward who can rebound who already has a positive attitude.

I wonder if the Suns Front Office had any input in this subliminal message to the public. The public for which Markieff stated no respect.

Nice try but, as I said, I don't buy it. I have no confidence in trying to make him a project.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...d-way-make-morris-relationship-work/31569195/

I read the article, not a very good one. She mentions both sides need to make it work but the things she mentions Morris needs to do to make amends, he won't do. I don't know how management is suppose to mend the fence when Morris has publicly stated he wants out and he doesn't expect to be here when its time to report. If he is here when TC begins what's he going to do? How will he handle the situation? He has kind of already alienated his teammates and coaching staff saying he won't talk to anyone and he has already alienated fans by criticizing them for lack of support.
 

CardsFan88

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CardsFan88

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I read the article, not a very good one. She mentions both sides need to make it work but the things she mentions Morris needs to do to make amends, he won't do. I don't know how management is suppose to mend the fence when Morris has publicly stated he wants out and he doesn't expect to be here when its time to report. If he is here when TC begins what's he going to do? How will he handle the situation? He has kind of already alienated his teammates and coaching staff saying he won't talk to anyone and he has already alienated fans by criticizing them for lack of support.

She also screwed up with the line of thinking... too many players have wanted out lately. Communication seems to be an issue?

What... Dragic for being a drama queen, and Kieff for what he did?

No... here's the message McD is sending. We're not good enough. We need to get better. We need to add assets for trades. We need to get guys BETTER then some of our starters. We need a superstar.

McD has said most if not all of this MANY times. If Boivin isn't listening, well it's not like it's her job or anything.

The problem is... a few of the guys we have don't like that. They think they are all that and a bag of chips and don't want to be replaced or be a lesser part of a much better team.

Also, it seems like guys didn't have much of a problem, or told McD it would be ok... only for them to change their minds. In the end McD traded Ennis AND IT at the deadline, so if Dragic ever cared to look back, McD didn't break his word, Dragic was just impatient.


Dragic is a me-first player. He wasn't when he got in the league, but something changed. Now he is.

Kieff is in the same spot.

McD needs to keep doing what he is doing, there is no way for McD to say.. hey we need someone better then you. Some guys will accept that in order to win, some won't. There simply is no good way to communicate that. Some guys either sense it and accept it, others whine and force their way out.

That's not a problem with the front office, it's a problem with some of the players.

I don't see any of our Kentucky players acting like that. Tyson Chandler is exactly the type of player we need. Let's also not forget that guys like Kieff and Dragic, were previous regime holdovers.

I have a feeling that McD wanted Kieff to learn and understudy from LMA, just like Len would from Chandler. In four years, Kieff would be 29 and be able to ascend into that role... perhaps.

But Kieff doesn't want that. He wanted to play with his brother and his G.I. Joes.... and be 'da man'.

Boivin is clueless and wants to make excuses. McD didn't put us here, Kieff's fragile ego, and allegedly inability to take a joke did. Dragic's ego and impatience did. They wanted things their way over what it takes to make the team better. Both of them got mad at what a GM does to make the team better.

It's as simple as that. They didn't buy a ticket to ride on the train, they were just hitching a ride.
 
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CardsFan88

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MarQueef is just a moron, plain and simple. He's such a big baby, that after all his dirty diaper antics, now he telegraphing his tantrums in advance.

I say let him. It's like someone who says they can stop talking for a day or a week. They simply can't do it.

I'd like to see this moron keep it up. It's a tantrum, and I for one want to see him crack.
 
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sunsfan88

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I would agree with that. But every player on that list is a better rebounder than Morris, and most of them are much better. Do you think Morris is capable of becoming an above-average rebounder for a starting PF? To me that's a crippling weakness. He had only 12 double-digit rebound games all last season.

Most of them are better defenders too.
 

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Chaz

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It is up to his agent to find the Suns a destination and value in return for him.
At least that is what I would tell him.

Otherwise see you in October.
 
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