Agreed. The last 2 seasons like the last 2 books were largely filler mixed in with a tiny bit of plot advancement. As bad as it seems in the show, it was even more noticeable in the books.
I honestly don't get the vitriol directed towards the show this year, but I guess if you really want to stop watching, go for it.
Half comes from people that are "the books are better" crowd who hated the show due to its very existence and the other half usually comes from people who are trolling because its a popular show (popular = bad). There are some legit complaints but it mostly falls into these 2 camps
This episode (combined with the rest of the season so far) proves that a series going a year or two, too long, is often far worse than ending too soon.
I think you were unduly harsh on the episode as a whole. I agree on a number of complaints you had, and with half of the sentiment here. The show hasn't gone too long--we need to see how it ends--but once the writers diverged from the books and tried to create their own content, they failed. Massively and utterly. Not because it's diverging from the source material, but because they are boring, predictable, and flat-out bad.
At least this episode minimized those complaints somewhat, and about half of it was pretty darn good, IMO.
Have to completely disagree with you. Yet another example of why this is the best show on television. Yes, one or two storylines are going nowhere, but the main stuff is really moving along well.
Nope, not me...believe it or not, he was more critical of this episode than I am. Still, I have to completely disagree that this is the best show on television. It USED to be; now it's not even close.
Half comes from people that are "the books are better" crowd who hated the show due to its very existence and the other half usually comes from people who are trolling because its a popular show (popular = bad). There are some legit complaints but it mostly falls into these 2 camps
So let me get this straight--those who don't like the show are either wrong because they're fan boys, or they're wrong because they're neggers--either way, they're just wrong, because how DARE anyone not like the show? We're only allowed to make minor complaints? LOL sure.
We can't compare season 6 much to the books because, in many cases, it's beyond the books. Other than the hasty, clunky catching up to the old Iron Islands story lines and the mangling of the quality of the Dorne story line, but that's just part of what sucks about this season.
No, IMO, this show falls into TWD camp: It started off absolutely brilliant, then fell off a cliff. Now, TWD fell off the cliff way, way earlier than GoT. Through four seasons, GoT was perfect. I believe Weiss and Benioff were brilliant at adapting material for the show, but have shown themselves utterly incompetent at writing new material. Take Sansa, and how idiotic her arcs have been:
They have no idea what they're doing with Sansa. At then end of season 4 they change the books and make her a strong character and a brilliant player of the game. Okay, not like the books, but an intriguing change, so where does it go? She turns into a blithering idiot, a mewling weakling as bad as she was in season 1 for the entirety of season 5. I mean, like, she's learned NOTHING...but wait, hadn't she become smart and strong at the end of season 4? Apparently not. BUT WAIT--it's now season 6, and she's strong again. Huh? What? My head's spinning with how much the writers flip-flop over Sansa
Now, a tip of the hat to the writers for this episode with Sansa, because I really did enjoy her this episode.
Yeah, okay, up yours, Littlefinger. There you go, Sansa. I mean, okay, the writers are being boring and predictable again--duuuuh, we don't have enough troops, what are we going to do? Oh yeah--we'll end up teaming up with the Vale army. The audience will NEVER suspect that LOLOLOL Still, Sansa has a backbone again, and I like it. If ONLY we could erase the utter waste of her story line from last season, her arc would be interesting. At least it's interesting again.
I'll be deliberately vague with the rest, so I don't have to spoiler EVERYTHING.
The Dany/Jorah stuff was cheesy as all get out, but I liked it. Hey, sue me! Brienne commenting on Tormund was hilarious. Kinvara's an interesting new character, but the wasting of Tyrion continues. Bran's stuff was cool, but the writer's blatant schmuck baiting of the Tower of Joy drags on, and is just plain insulting to the viewers. Jesus, how bad can they get with that. The reveals north of the wall were pretty damn cool, though, as were the goings on there. Thank you for not showing a certain mustache-twirler, writers, but screw you for dragging that out aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall season. Arya? Egads, how BAD can you be at drawing THAT out even more. At least we got a cool development there...FINALLY! Iron Islands? No, sorry, that ship sailed a long time ago. W+B are playing a woefully pathetic game of catch-up there, and it is about as compelling as me clipping my toenails.
I think that about covers it. Probably the best episode of the season, which isn't a good sign. Half of it was pretty damn cool, but the other half was forgettable at the very best. Were this a first or even second episode, okay, it wouldn't be as bad. That we're halfway through the season and this is the absolute best we've gotten so far is telling, though.
I still think this is one of the best shows on TV bar none. I have been critical of it's methodical pacing at times and taking forever to get to certain story lines but this show is still great.
It bites to see one of my favorite characters go in Hodor. The reveal that he is actually saying Hold The Door was freaking awesome. Also, the reveal that he had a vision of what was going to come and probably traumatized him so he became how we are introduced to the character. Loved it.
Also, I am glad to see Little Finger squirm a little bit because some of that manipulation could have cost him his life.
Last but not least, another White Walker Lieutenant somehow destroyed. Which is revealing they are not invisible but the characters just are not sure what that common thread is between Jon Snow doing so and now in this episode.
It wasn't a bad episode but there were quite a few things that bugged me.
You've got precious little time before the walkers show up, you're trying to give him everything he needs to know... and you go back to see his pappy hanging out with Grandad for a while? That was flat out dumb.
And the way the show is killing off the wolves... it's like they're trolling the people who are annoyed they aren't around more. Robb's wolf was killing people by the dozens in battle and was gigantic. Bran's wolf, which should have been nearly 3 years older than Robb's when we saw it get killed, look basically like a husky and basically jumped into a pile of swords to get itself killed. Really bugged me.
I absolutely agree with Stout on the writing. Its gone off a cliff. I still like the story but the writing is pretty lousy right now. It is especially apparent whenever Tyrion shows up. He is no longer clever, witty or scheming. He is now an awkward bumbler who seems to accidentally offend someone (but not through humor) in every conversation.
It wasn't a bad episode but there were quite a few things that bugged me.
You've got precious little time before the walkers show up, you're trying to give him everything he needs to know... and you go back to see his pappy hanging out with Grandad for a while? That was flat out dumb.
And the way the show is killing off the wolves... it's like they're trolling the people who are annoyed they aren't around more. Robb's wolf was killing people by the dozens in battle and was gigantic. Bran's wolf, which should have been nearly 3 years older than Robb's when we saw it get killed, look basically like a husky and basically jumped into a pile of swords to get itself killed. Really bugged me.
I didn't think he controlled where the visions sent him. I think the point was to show that everything is connected and will come full circle (Hodor scene). I thought it was great.
If you want to see lousy writing, try FTWD. At any rate, I agree with you on the Wolf thing. It does seem like they dispense of the Wolves a little to easy. I didn't like that part one bit either. Although I guess I understand why. Every few seconds they sacrificed helped them escape. My bigger problem with that scene is there are so many of them that you could send them off probably in every direction in that storm and find them. Especially, at the pace they were getting away.
P.S. Because I know it was brought up before. EC confirmed there was no body double used in that scene the last episode. Khaleesi has spoken.
A big part of the reason I disliked this episode, so much, was the obvious focus on Sansa and the crap writing of her scenes.
Sansa tells Littlefinger to stick it. Sansa keeps important information from the people close to her. Sansa believes Houses and men will flock to her banner because of noble honor. Sound familiar? Sansa is now her father in drag. Hell, they should have hired Boy George to play her part. Sorry, not tipping my hat to them for recycling a Season 1 character.
It wasn't a bad episode but there were quite a few things that bugged me.
You've got precious little time before the walkers show up, you're trying to give him everything he needs to know... and you go back to see his pappy hanging out with Grandad for a while? That was flat out dumb.
And the way the show is killing off the wolves... it's like they're trolling the people who are annoyed they aren't around more. Robb's wolf was killing people by the dozens in battle and was gigantic. Bran's wolf, which should have been nearly 3 years older than Robb's when we saw it get killed, look basically like a husky and basically jumped into a pile of swords to get itself killed. Really bugged me.
I didn't think he controlled where the visions sent him. I think the point was to show that everything is connected and will come full circle (Hodor scene). I thought it was great.
If you want to see lousy writing, try FTWD. At any rate, I agree with you on the Wolf thing. It does seem like they dispense of the Wolves a little to easy. I didn't like that part one bit either. Although I guess I understand why. Every few seconds they sacrificed helped them escape. My bigger problem with that scene is there are so many of them that you could send them off probably in every direction in that storm and find them. Especially, at the pace they were getting away.
P.S. Because I know it was brought up before. EC confirmed there was no body double used in that scene the last episode. Khaleesi has spoken.
Yeah, I watched the first season of FTWD, it was laughably terrible, I havn't bothered to watch the new season and from what I've heard it sounds like I've made the right call.
I should say, the writing on GoT is not bad on its own merit, it is only bad compared to what the writing on the show was the first 4 seasons.
Yeah but another one of those red witches wearing one of those magic necklaces had me all out of sorts. Had fears she might take that necklace off and take a shower or something.
Have to admit, I stopped watching this show around season 3. For some reason, I couldn't get into it anymore. But, the wife has been watching it every Sunday and I caught myself watching it as well. Now I am back on board. Especially after last nights episode. That was pretty sweet
that last scene,...and the way it all played out...fate? destiny?...either way, to play out like that was an epic tragedy... didn't realize how attached I had become...I was misty eyed even half hour after the show was over...very upsetting...
that last scene,...and the way it all played out...fate? destiny?...either way, to play out like that was an epic tragedy... didn't realize how attached I had become...I was misty eyed even half hour after the show was over...very upsetting...
So let me get this straight--those who don't like the show are either wrong because they're fan boys, or they're wrong because they're neggers--either way, they're just wrong, because how DARE anyone not like the show? We're only allowed to make minor complaints? LOL sure.
We can't compare season 6 much to the books because, in many cases, it's beyond the books. Other than the hasty, clunky catching up to the old Iron Islands story lines and the mangling of the quality of the Dorne story line, but that's just part of what sucks about this season.
No, IMO, this show falls into TWD camp: It started off absolutely brilliant, then fell off a cliff. Now, TWD fell off the cliff way, way earlier than GoT. Through four seasons, GoT was perfect. I believe Weiss and Benioff were brilliant at adapting material for the show, but have shown themselves utterly incompetent at writing new material. Take Sansa, and how idiotic her arcs have been.
No I said there are some legit complaints that i agree with. However some of it comes from a lot of people that read the books are greatly overstating their quality. The first 3 books in the series were INCREDIBLE especially the third one. However the 4th and 5th books were written in such a way that it seemed to just stretch a few plot points were stretched a great deal and were filled with tons of filler (same as the show). Some of the cliffhangers in the fifth book almost felt like an afterthought
ie The Nightwatch's betrayal of Jon Snow
There was an entire chapter in a Feast of Crows that was entirely on food. No plot development, no character development, just mindless FILLER. I can't blame TV writers for making mediocre material of the past few seasons due to the mediocrity of the source material
I don't agree with some of the changes for the show namely
As you brought up the Dorne storyline, turning the Mountain into Frankenstein's monster and the apparent skipping of the Lady Stoneheart storyline is really disappointing (seriously would've thought this would be cool for the show)
However I'm somewhat realistic in terms of scale for a TV show for what they can and cannot do. Many people in the "books are better" camp that I brought up refuse to allow any changes whatsoever.
There are legit complaints but you have to keep in mind that there are major differences with a TV show/movie and books. TV shows/Movies have many factors that they have to deal with that largely fall into one category: Budget. The only restriction that Martin and other authors have to deal with in book storylines is their imagination (hell Martin is even writing another book in the series when he was originally going to make 6). Just try to be realistic is all I ask
However I'm somewhat realistic in terms of scale for a TV show for what they can and cannot do. Many people in the "books are better" camp that I brought up refuse to allow any changes whatsoever.
There are legit complaints but you have to keep in mind that there are major differences with a TV show/movie and books. TV shows/Movies have many factors that they have to deal with that largely fall into one category: Budget. The only restriction that Martin and other authors have to deal with in book storylines is their imagination (hell Martin is even writing another book in the series when he was originally going to make 6). Just try to be realistic is all I ask
No doubt books 1-3 are far better than books 4-5. The problem I and a lot of others are having with the show don't have to do with what you're talking about. Budgetary constraints have nothing to do with writing quality. Does a need to keep a show in budget mean you have to, for instance, write eye-rollingly predictable scenes? Like, literally, 3/4 of your material can be guessed on the nose by the audience? Budget wasn't a problem earlier in the series. They did a great job spending their money wisely in the earlier seasons while keeping a high-quality show going--while keeping one of the best shows out there going. So why has the show quality fallen off a cliff? Because of writing, not budgeting.
Part of the problem might be HBO and/or W+B insisting on a bunch of extra seasons to stretch out the money train. You bring up legit complaints about books 4 and 5, and in certain instances (like Tyrion's journey to Mereen) the show rightly sped things up. The problem is, they're also stretching certain things out--a LOT. Maybe the problem is they're gunning for too many seasons, thus stretching out plot lines that shouldn't be stretched out so far, and so diluting the quality of the show? It's a thought.
No doubt books 1-3 are far better than books 4-5. The problem I and a lot of others are having with the show don't have to do with what you're talking about. Budgetary constraints have nothing to do with writing quality. Does a need to keep a show in budget mean you have to, for instance, write eye-rollingly predictable scenes? Like, literally, 3/4 of your material can be guessed on the nose by the audience? Budget wasn't a problem earlier in the series. They did a great job spending their money wisely in the earlier seasons while keeping a high-quality show going--while keeping one of the best shows out there going. So why has the show quality fallen off a cliff? Because of writing, not budgeting.
Part of the problem might be HBO and/or W+B insisting on a bunch of extra seasons to stretch out the money train. You bring up legit complaints about books 4 and 5, and in certain instances (like Tyrion's journey to Mereen) the show rightly sped things up. The problem is, they're also stretching certain things out--a LOT. Maybe the problem is they're gunning for too many seasons, thus stretching out plot lines that shouldn't be stretched out so far, and so diluting the quality of the show? It's a thought.
But they're doing a much better job this season, with the exception of Arya's story and Dorne, at advancing the stories; and not all stories are predictable (did you predict, "Hold the Door?").
We've already been told that the series is going to be eight seasons at least, and even in the books, there were still many questions left unanswered. Like the series with seasons, there are two more books left to conclude the entire story, and the TV writers are even leaving portions of the books out. Would you prefer that they accelerate all stories in an effort to conclude the series this season?
But they're doing a much better job this season, with the exception of Arya's story and Dorne, at advancing the stories; and not all stories are predictable (did you predict, "Hold the Door?").
We've already been told that the series is going to be eight seasons at least, and even in the books, there were still many questions left unanswered. Like the series with seasons, there are two more books left to conclude the entire story, and the TV writers are even leaving portions of the books out. Would you prefer that they accelerate all stories in an effort to conclude the series this season?
I've already answered your Hodor question--I did not, and I enjoyed it. Sadly, 'not all stories are predictable' is an incredibly low bar, allowing that indeed most of the stories ARE predicable. The past two episodes have been better at this--Khaleesi's bit in four and a bunch more in five--but episodes one through three were mostly forgettable, most of episode four was forgettable, and half of the best episode in half a season, episode five, was forgettable. That's just not good enough for me.You and I just vastly disagree about them doing a much better job, as I feel season 5 was bad, and season 6 is even worse.
I don't want them to wrap it up this season--as if that was remotely possible, given the story's progression--but I'm starting to get the feeling they want to milk it for maybe up to ten seasons, and that would be too long. I don't know. I'm grasping for answers as to why the quality has fallen off a cliff, and I'm speculating.
I have not read the books and this show has been pretty consistent with twists and turns. I don't consider it predictable. Also, budget can drive writing decisions. For example, something major they want to include now requires filler to get to the next scene. They might have a large budget but it's not unlimited. I am sure they make decisions all the time on where to spend the money. I totally agree with the above take that it's easier to write a book because you can come up with anything. A TV show? Not as easy.
The quality of the show IMO has not fallen off a cliff. It's been up and down and from several people I know that have read the books, they predicted that because of the source material (books 4 &5) the show would also suffer. I heard that over and over from book fans who told me it was going to happen. I guess my expectations were tempered based on what I was being told. Therefore, the show has not disappointed.
Are there filler episodes? Sure. However, I am still going to argue that a filler episode of this show is still 90% better then half the crud on TV. The HODOR stuff was awesome and from what I have been told much better than how they covered it in the book.
