well yeah,...10 minutes after the episode I couldn't think of anything to say that was not a spoiler,lol...love the new button
Game of Thrones (HBO)
- Thread starter Dr. Jones
- Start date
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Meh, there were some awesome bits, but the sickening predictability of everything ruined all but some of it for me. I mean, my mother, who has never watched GoT, sat here and started putting words in character's mouths, which they would then go on to say, and began predicting what would happen lol Honestly, I'd probably have loved the episode if I didn't know what was going to happen every step of the way. W+B have really, really lost their sense of suspense. Completely.
So, that drained all the suspense out of that. Was it coolly staged? Sure. Was I glad a certain character got his mojo back? Absolutely. Did I plot it out 100 percent well beforehand? Yes, only it turned out worse lol.
Then there's the north, where all the cool battle stuff should have had a huge payoff. There WAS a lot to love there (though I did hate how weak/stupid they made a certain character/commander). The action was cool; the plot sucked balls.
Now, there was a good bit of content to love about the episode, including the scene I'll comment on in the spoiler below. It's a shame it was surrounded by 1/2 an episode of "I know what's happening, so why don't you please skip your cheap schmuck bait and get to the point?"
Usually this is the best episode of the season, episode 8. And it might have been the best episode of this season. That's sadly not saying a lot. Last season wasn't good, but at least Hardhome brought it back. Yes, we knew Hardhome would be a disaster, but we didn't know HOW it would be disastrous. Perhaps that was the last time W+B managed to capture lightning in a bottle. Oh well.
I mean, I knew before the last episode that Dany would show up with the Dothraki and the dragons, defeat the Masters, and take their ships. I also knew that, right after that, Yara (Asha) and Theon would show up with their ships too. It was ridiculously timed, that the Greyjoy fleet would sail around half the world in two episodes to show up in the third, but I knew it was going to happen. Sure enough, Dany arrived last episode to save the day, and the Greyjoys showed up...ONLY ONE EPISODE SOONER!!! 
I mean, honestly, do they sail 5,000 mph or something?
I mean, honestly, do they sail 5,000 mph or something?So, that drained all the suspense out of that. Was it coolly staged? Sure. Was I glad a certain character got his mojo back? Absolutely. Did I plot it out 100 percent well beforehand? Yes, only it turned out worse lol.
Then there's the north, where all the cool battle stuff should have had a huge payoff. There WAS a lot to love there (though I did hate how weak/stupid they made a certain character/commander). The action was cool; the plot sucked balls.
There was zero mystery when Sansa wrote the letter calling for support, as I wrote episodes ago. My mother, a GoT n00b, started watching, I told her that it would all look hopeless for the good guys, that Ramsay would be at the instant of winning the battle, and lo and behold, Littlefinger and the Vale army would ride over the horizon. Her response? "Why are they dragging it out like this if they made it so obvious?" A huge, knock down, the good guys are in trouble battle only works if the audience DOESN'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT. They'll suspect, if not know, that the good guys will get out of it, but won't know how--but that's on a normal show or movie. On GoT, they'll really worry that the good guys WON'T get out of it at all. But, seriously, the way they telegraphed it, did anyone buy the twenty minutes of 'Oh god, we're all dying, it's hopeless, the good guys have lost?" crap? Far from bringing suspense, it merely burned valuable episode time that could have been spent on something important. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, was surprised when the Vale army showed up. Blah.
Now, there was a good bit of content to love about the episode, including the scene I'll comment on in the spoiler below. It's a shame it was surrounded by 1/2 an episode of "I know what's happening, so why don't you please skip your cheap schmuck bait and get to the point?"
Sansa and Ramsay. Yeah. Hell yeah. What the perfect way for her to finish him off. And he thought they'd never eat him, his own hounds. That was a lovely 'what goes around comes around' bit.
Usually this is the best episode of the season, episode 8. And it might have been the best episode of this season. That's sadly not saying a lot. Last season wasn't good, but at least Hardhome brought it back. Yes, we knew Hardhome would be a disaster, but we didn't know HOW it would be disastrous. Perhaps that was the last time W+B managed to capture lightning in a bottle. Oh well.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I'm loving the new spoiler feature myself. It's really cool.
As to your spoiler, I'll answer the one bit in my spoiler below
I won't criticize them for not letting the grown dragons do more damage. Dany + Tyrion didn't want them to do more damage. They wanted an intact fleet and not to be seen as murdering tyrants by simply slaying all the innocents the Masters dragged to Mereen to fight for them.
I mean, as you saw from my other point, I'm plenty ready to criticize them for a lot, but not on this plot point
I mean, as you saw from my other point, I'm plenty ready to criticize them for a lot, but not on this plot point
crisper57
Open the Roof!
That was awesome. Best cinematography on any tv episode ever!!!
That was focused and epic at the same time. Was it somewhat predictable? Yes, I think we knew where the episode was heading. But the road getting there? Hell yeah, they nailed it!
That was focused and epic at the same time. Was it somewhat predictable? Yes, I think we knew where the episode was heading. But the road getting there? Hell yeah, they nailed it!
That might be one of the most epic episodes of television I have ever seen. Truly epic. So much so that the parts that were predictable didn't matter one bit.
Easily my favorite episode since Red Wedding.
Easily my favorite episode since Red Wedding.
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loved the battle scene. Loved how the flowed snow through it all and even when he was suffocating. Yea the show was some what predictable but man every part of it was cool. The masters thinking they had Dany beat.
How far is westros supposed to be from mereen? Has it said in the show or book?
Chaplin
Better off silent
I'm loving the new spoiler feature myself. It's really cool.
As to your spoiler, I'll answer the one bit in my spoiler below
I won't criticize them for not letting the grown dragons do more damage. Dany + Tyrion didn't want them to do more damage. They wanted an intact fleet and not to be seen as murdering tyrants by simply slaying all the innocents the Masters dragged to Mereen to fight for them.
I mean, as you saw from my other point, I'm plenty ready to criticize them for a lot, but not on this plot point
Yep, they actually said that they wanted a majority of their ships for their use, so it would be stupid to destroy them all.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Meh, there were some awesome bits, but the sickening predictability of everything ruined all but some of it for me. I mean, my mother, who has never watched GoT, sat here and started putting words in character's mouths, which they would then go on to say, and began predicting what would happen lol Honestly, I'd probably have loved the episode if I didn't know what was going to happen every step of the way. W+B have really, really lost their sense of suspense. Completely.
I mean, I knew before the last episode that Dany would show up with the Dothraki and the dragons, defeat the Masters, and take their ships. I also knew that, right after that, Yara (Asha) and Theon would show up with their ships too. It was ridiculously timed, that the Greyjoy fleet would sail around half the world in two episodes to show up in the third, but I knew it was going to happen. Sure enough, Dany arrived last episode to save the day, and the Greyjoys showed up...ONLY ONE EPISODE SOONER!!!
So, that drained all the suspense out of that. Was it coolly staged? Sure. Was I glad a certain character got his mojo back? Absolutely. Did I plot it out 100 percent well beforehand? Yes, only it turned out worse lol.
Then there's the north, where all the cool battle stuff should have had a huge payoff. There WAS a lot to love there (though I did hate how weak/stupid they made a certain character/commander). The action was cool; the plot sucked balls.
There was zero mystery when Sansa wrote the letter calling for support, as I wrote episodes ago. My mother, a GoT n00b, started watching, I told her that it would all look hopeless for the good guys, that Ramsay would be at the instant of winning the battle, and lo and behold, Littlefinger and the Vale army would ride over the horizon. Her response? "Why are they dragging it out like this if they made it so obvious?" A huge, knock down, the good guys are in trouble battle only works if the audience DOESN'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT. They'll suspect, if not know, that the good guys will get out of it, but won't know how--but that's on a normal show or movie. On GoT, they'll really worry that the good guys WON'T get out of it at all. But, seriously, the way they telegraphed it, did anyone buy the twenty minutes of 'Oh god, we're all dying, it's hopeless, the good guys have lost?" crap? Far from bringing suspense, it merely burned valuable episode time that could have been spent on something important. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, was surprised when the Vale army showed up. Blah.
Now, there was a good bit of content to love about the episode, including the scene I'll comment on in the spoiler below. It's a shame it was surrounded by 1/2 an episode of "I know what's happening, so why don't you please skip your cheap schmuck bait and get to the point?"
Sansa and Ramsay. Yeah. Hell yeah. What the perfect way for her to finish him off. And he thought they'd never eat him, his own hounds. That was a lovely 'what goes around comes around' bit.
Usually this is the best episode of the season, episode 8. And it might have been the best episode of this season. That's sadly not saying a lot. Last season wasn't good, but at least Hardhome brought it back. Yes, we knew Hardhome would be a disaster, but we didn't know HOW it would be disastrous. Perhaps that was the last time W+B managed to capture lightning in a bottle. Oh well.
I'm actually hoping you and your family stop watching this show. It's much more of a chore reading your complaining and whining than watching the show.
I seriously don't get all the complaining either. This episode by far was probably the most epic thing ever filmed on TV. Sure, where there a couple things predictable? OK but not predictable in the normal sense of the word.
I thought it was predictable that Jon and his army would start losing the battle until someone came in to help. However, it was so brilliantly filmed that I thought for one second Jon might not make it. Also, even though I thought they might get saved and you could say the "win" was predictable....the way it happened sure was UGLY. Like one of the ugliest wins I have ever seen. Normally when something like that is filmed the battle is so formulaic and "clean". Good guy outsmarts bad guy...etc. The battle was chaotic, luck played a huge role, stuff didn't go as planned. That to me is not typical formula for winning a battle.
I have to admit, unlike what Stout said, yes, I did think for a moment it might be the end of Jon..again. Not because I didn't exactly see more troops coming to save the day but because if anything GOT has been sadistic. It's been completely unforgiving when it comes to killing fan favorites. So, as he was getting buried...I thought @#$@#$@ but I was hoping that my prediction of a last minute save would happen. So I completely disagree with Stout in that if they had killed Jon again to tease fans.....NOW THAT would not have surprised me one bit.
Starks finally getting some revenge, Ramsay Bolton getting what he deserved and Sansa's little smirk as she walked away? Loved it. Still one of the best shows on TV bar none.
I have to admit, unlike what Stout said, yes, I did think for a moment it might be the end of Jon..again. Not because I didn't exactly see more troops coming to save the day but because if anything GOT has been sadistic. It's been completely unforgiving when it comes to killing fan favorites. So, as he was getting buried...I thought @#$@#$@ but I was hoping that my prediction of a last minute save would happen. So I completely disagree with Stout in that if they had killed Jon again to tease fans.....NOW THAT would not have surprised me one bit.
Starks finally getting some revenge, Ramsay Bolton getting what he deserved and Sansa's little smirk as she walked away? Loved it. Still one of the best shows on TV bar none.
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
And, see, this is what, in part, drove me to write such a scathing review--so many fan boys and girls were like "OMG, this is the best thing evah!" bop bop bop crack bubblegum OMG. It's NOT the 'most epic thing ever filmed on TV' (sorry, but you really nailed the silly fanboy thing with THAT quote)--it's not even close to the most epic thing filmed on that very SERIES. Cinematography-wise and stage combat wise, it was awesome. There were a few good/great scenes, but it lacked what makes the ep 9 episodes great: dramatic tension. Story wise, it bored me to TEARS. There was no dramatic tension. NONE. Since I knew what was going to happen in this episode, and when it was going to happen, and exactly HOW it was going to happen for weeks (which I'm on record as predicting, btw), then I'm sorry, I will never, ever agree with the 'best thing EVAH' stance and will argue it to my dying day.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Really the only thing that stood out to me as ridiculous was Rickon's walk of doom. Granted, you don't want to make it look like a Benny Hill episode as he's running away, but there were all those burning effegies on the field. Why not hide behind one of them? His chances would have improved immeasurably if he could get to one.
No what is driving you to write such a scathing review is you have convinced yourself that the show is no longer good. So, you each week look to nitpick and point out all that is wrong to justify how you feel. You go out of your way now to critique the show. So, if I am a fan boy you are the polar opposite in that you feel almost obligated to blast the show each week.
To me, I have seen many set pieces throughout the show (the fight with the White Walkers etc.). Saying it was epic has nothing to do with being a fan boy. It's recognizing the cinematography and the stage for which they filmed the first truly outright full scale battle and had dragons to boot. If you watched the commentary after the show, even the writers said that was something that they had not done before in terms of scale. Acknowledging that is not being a fan boy.
Sorry you are bored of the show. Speaking of predictable....I can pretty much predict how you are going to react each week Stout. That is more predictable than anything on the show.
Actually my biggest issue was was the running in a straight line and making an easy target for Ramsay. Minor complaint but if I had it my way, I would have wanted him to zig zag and Ramsay still hit him with the arrow. Sure, I would have though him hitting him that way would have been ridiculous too but probably slightly less then having a character run in straight line.
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Chaplin
Better off silent
Yeah, unpredictable for Stout is him coming on here and saying he didn't watch it. LOL
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Hey, I came on here and absolutely gushed about one of the episodes this season. Not only did I not get credit for that, I instead got blasted because everyone hated it
The way you wrote it originally made it seem like you thought it was the absolute best episode of TV you've ever seen, which I think is ludicrous, but you've since clarified in your above post, which is more realistic. I still really disagree, but oh well.
I get it. It's the water cooler show that everyone loves and everyone loves to talk about, and it WAS a great episode as it pertains to cinematography. I'll give you all that.
But I mean honestly, and be honest here--did anyone not know exactly what was going to happen, how it was going to happen, and when it was going to happen? Please, I'd like a few real answers here. So, if we all knew these things, how am I such a spoil sport for thinking that's really bogus writing? Chap, I'm looking at you specifically here. How can you, as a writer, not agree that that's poor writing, and a lack of dramatic tension?
Chaplin
Better off silent
I think the episode did pretty much exactly what I as an audience member wanted it to do. The fact that they didn't throw some M. Night twist to make it dark doesn't really bother me. Do I think it's the best writing on television? Nope, not at all (Person of Interest holds the current title IMO).Hey, I came on here and absolutely gushed about one of the episodes this season. Not only did I not get credit for that, I instead got blasted because everyone hated it
The way you wrote it originally made it seem like you thought it was the absolute best episode of TV you've ever seen, which I think is ludicrous, but you've since clarified in your above post, which is more realistic. I still really disagree, but oh well.
I get it. It's the water cooler show that everyone loves and everyone loves to talk about, and it WAS a great episode as it pertains to cinematography. I'll give you all that.
But I mean honestly, and be honest here--did anyone not know exactly what was going to happen, how it was going to happen, and when it was going to happen? Please, I'd like a few real answers here. So, if we all knew these things, how am I such a spoil sport for thinking that's really bogus writing? Chap, I'm looking at you specifically here. How can you, as a writer, not agree that that's poor writing, and a lack of dramatic tension?
But I'm not going to complain about the writing because I am enjoying the hell out of the show. Bad writing to me is unrealistic dialog -- like using modern colloquialisms -- and this show doesn't have much of that. Predictable, sure, and that may not be impressive, but I don't mind it.
Hey, I came on here and absolutely gushed about one of the episodes this season. Not only did I not get credit for that, I instead got blasted because everyone hated it
The way you wrote it originally made it seem like you thought it was the absolute best episode of TV you've ever seen, which I think is ludicrous, but you've since clarified in your above post, which is more realistic. I still really disagree, but oh well.
I get it. It's the water cooler show that everyone loves and everyone loves to talk about, and it WAS a great episode as it pertains to cinematography. I'll give you all that.
But I mean honestly, and be honest here--did anyone not know exactly what was going to happen, how it was going to happen, and when it was going to happen? Please, I'd like a few real answers here. So, if we all knew these things, how am I such a spoil sport for thinking that's really bogus writing? Chap, I'm looking at you specifically here. How can you, as a writer, not agree that that's poor writing, and a lack of dramatic tension?
I knew young Stark was going to get an arrow and not make it. I had a bigger problem with how the seen played out (running in a straight line). I still thought it was necessary for Jon's character to play it out the way it did. Something can still be predictable but add tension to the scene. It did. No matter how predictable the scene served it's purpose. The agony in Jon's eyes and the rage said it all.
I figured someone would come at the last minute to help Jon and company out. However, the battle itself was anything but formulaic. That was NOT predictable which to me completely changes how I viewed that scene. As I stated above, I thought Jon could possibly die again and his return would have been nothing more than a temporary tease. Why? Because this is GOT and show has proven to be sadistic over and over again.
Also, yes...I didn't know EXACTLY what was going to happen or how it was going to happen. I would imagine that applies to the majority of fans or nobody would have tuned in. Conceptually I thought they would win the battle. I could not have predicted the ugly non-formulaic execution of the battle.
I was a big fan of period movies with battle scenes growing up. The one problem I had with most of them is how they would play out. You could pretty much say, good guy outsmarts bad guy on field 99% of the time.
I figured someone would come at the last minute to help Jon and company out. However, the battle itself was anything but formulaic. That was NOT predictable which to me completely changes how I viewed that scene. As I stated above, I thought Jon could possibly die again and his return would have been nothing more than a temporary tease. Why? Because this is GOT and show has proven to be sadistic over and over again.
Also, yes...I didn't know EXACTLY what was going to happen or how it was going to happen. I would imagine that applies to the majority of fans or nobody would have tuned in. Conceptually I thought they would win the battle. I could not have predicted the ugly non-formulaic execution of the battle.
I was a big fan of period movies with battle scenes growing up. The one problem I had with most of them is how they would play out. You could pretty much say, good guy outsmarts bad guy on field 99% of the time.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Um, no, sorry, but bad writing is far, faaaaar more than merely unrealistic dialogue. Shame on you there, Chap. Shame (cue the High Sparrow and shaved-head Cersei lol)
Now, no turning it around. I wasn't expecting an M. Night Shamalamadingdong twist or anything, just a better structuring of how it all went down. You should never, ever have a majority of the audience knowing exactly how something like that is going to turn out, complete with exact details and timing, especially several episodes away. Epic fail.
So, what you're saying is you can ignore the lack of dramatic tension because you're just buying into the pulpy fun of the show right now? I can get behind that kind of sentiment, at least, the 'no, it's not great, but damn it, it's FUN' mentality. I can't do it, but at least I can understand that.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Maybe that's the problem then: I'm too intelligent for this show (not that I'm saying anyone's not intelligent for liking it at this point--let me make that clear). I mean, all the signposts were there. All the moving pieces were telegraphed several episodes ago. How could you NOT know what was going to happen and when? And this isn't hindsight being 20-20. I called this. All of it.
Chaplin
Better off silent
What are you talking about? When has Game of Thrones EVER done what you expect it to do? This is the exception, not the rule. This season has been unlike any of the seasons before it. We get that you don't like it, but hey, you didn't like the previous seasons either. And don't put words into my mouth.
Ignore the lack of dramatic tension? What are you talking about? Even though Rickon's fate was pretty much pre-ordained, there are plenty of questions still there. You are acting like there are no questions and Your Holiness thinks he knows what's going to happen. Why bother watching at all, Your Holiness? This is a question we continually ask you about... well... EVERYTHING. And you always come back with a weak answer like, "well, I hope it gets better." But we all know that you will NEVER think the show as a whole will get better, so why bother?
Why don't you write something better? It always burns me that you and people like you find it so easy to criticize--then you call yourself "too intelligent" for the show. What arrogant presumption! Amazing!
I think you have it stuck in your head that predictability is always bad. It's not. Every show that has ever been on television is predictable. It's like you want a twist in every episode. I could nitpick every show on TV for the same thing. Why? It doesn't have to be unpredictable to be great television.
Not that I am saying you're not intelligent or doubting your precognition abilities but I seriously doubt you knew EXACTLY what was going to happen, when it was going to happen and how it was going to happen. So much so that you could have written the episode and saved the writers of the show lots of time. Aside from the high level predictability, I would enjoy seeing you post each week what you predict for the following week. At least it wouldn't seem like bashing just to bash.
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Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I'll grant you, this whole SEASON has been the exception, not the rule, as it relates to predictability. Last season wasn't good, IMO, but at least it wasn't predictable.
And, if you want to talk about putting words into peoples' mouths, you were just the master of it. I RAVED about this show for 4 years. I gushed about it, I loved it, and consider it some of the best TV ever made. So, yeah, take that weak crap right on out of here. Pretending I never like anything. My my, don't we make things up out of thin air.
I'll take Your Holiness, because apparently I am a miracle worker in knowing exactly what was going to happen and when this episode. Well, me and all my friends, and thousands of others on the internet. Go ahead, look back. I predicted it all exactly well before it happened. Don't hate me for my intelligence, though. I specifically said I wasn't shooting darts at the smarts of the posters here. I think I just expect too much of a show that was so good and so intelligently written for so long.
And I write PLENTY of material that's better than the writing on the current season of GoT, just as I've cut my teeth writing plenty that was worse than it in the past. I don't write TV, though, and don't have a giant social media platform and followers in the millions to support me when my writing goes sour, though.
No, this is misguided (the first paragraph, anyway). I don't want more twists, not at all. They overloaded the twists in the beginning of this season, in fact. I just don't want them to waste time pretending there's dramatic tension when there isn't any. Plenty of ways for them to have avoided it in this episode.
And I absolutely did. I predicted it, here and elsewhere. I mocked the writers while I predicted it. And it happened. Go back, look it up.
The nice thing about next week is that it isn't predictable going in. The setups and what were going to happen happened in this episode (how bad is it that the spoiler below happened so fast!). So, I'm hoping it doesn't get predictable within the episode.
I knew and predicted that the stolen part of the iron fleet would show up right after the battle, but DAMN. This episode and not the next episode? What did they do, sail the fleet into a portal so it could jump out another portal half a world away? I mean, seriously! Does it take five minutes to sail 5,000 miles or something?
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I feel like Stout needs to give us an exact outline of what he expects to see happen in the Finale. If he's right, he's absolutely too intelligent for the show. If not, maybe he stops criticizing anyone who likes the show as fanboys or whatever other names he seemingly wants to shame people into for liking the show... And this is coming from someone who has been entertained this season, but definitely thinks it's easily the weakest of the bunch, mostly because it's been relatively predictable.
That last episode was definitely a red meat episode, no big surprises, but still entertaining.
That last episode was definitely a red meat episode, no big surprises, but still entertaining.
Not only that but there would some things I would want him to predict for me going forward.
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crisper57
Open the Roof!
Wow, reading the Director's comments on filming that battle makes me even more amazed they pulled it off. He thought he'd need 48 days to logistically pull it off and got 25 to do it. Then the rains came, along with mud, which made using horses difficult (and filming miserable). Then there were the budget constraints that caused him to frame shots in certain ways (that totally ended up working out). Then they basically show three days without a script because the original version was not workable with the weather/timetable. This is where the crushing bodies part was born.
Wow, just wow. I don't think the battle could have been done more perfectly if they had unlimited resources and ideal weather. The Director deserves an Emmy for this one, for sure.
Wow, just wow. I don't think the battle could have been done more perfectly if they had unlimited resources and ideal weather. The Director deserves an Emmy for this one, for sure.
