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Chaplin

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The episode was slow but the Hodor reveal in the previous episode was epic IMO. Still can't get the final scene out of my head even when I was watching the latest.

I liked the episode--in this show, even the "filler" episodes are pretty good. Didn't love the ending though--I didn't see the need for her to have that rousing speech to the Dothraki, she already had them and they already knew everything she said. Just seemed strange that in the middle of their journey, she goes all Braveheart for no real reason other than to show off Drogon.

And I can only assume Sam taking Heartsbane was the only way he could say "Screw you!" to his father, since he can't actually say it to his face.
 

Dback Jon

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I liked the episode--in this show, even the "filler" episodes are pretty good. Didn't love the ending though--I didn't see the need for her to have that rousing speech to the Dothraki, she already had them and they already knew everything she said. Just seemed strange that in the middle of their journey, she goes all Braveheart for no real reason other than to show off Drogon.

And I can only assume Sam taking Heartsbane was the only way he could say "Screw you!" to his father, since he can't actually say it to his face.

I got two things out of the last speech:

1) Return of Drogon, and vocalizing the firm plan she has
2) The matching of the need for ships to the planned building of ships by Euron.
 

Chaplin

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I got two things out of the last speech:

1) Return of Drogon, and vocalizing the firm plan she has
2) The matching of the need for ships to the planned building of ships by Euron.

As an audience, we already knew both those things. And as far as #1, did the Dothraki really need to learn more details?
 

Covert Rain

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I liked the episode--in this show, even the "filler" episodes are pretty good. Didn't love the ending though--I didn't see the need for her to have that rousing speech to the Dothraki, she already had them and they already knew everything she said. Just seemed strange that in the middle of their journey, she goes all Braveheart for no real reason other than to show off Drogon.

And I can only assume Sam taking Heartsbane was the only way he could say "Screw you!" to his father, since he can't actually say it to his face.

Heartsbane is one of the few weapons that can kill Whitewalkers right? So my assumption is stealing the sword plays a much larger role in the battle to come.
 

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As an audience, we already knew both those things. And as far as #1, did the Dothraki really need to learn more details?

Making them all her blood riders ensures they will die for her.


I thought it was a nice way to end the episode.
 

Covert Rain

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:shrug:

I just thought it was unnecessary and a cheap way to get the Braveheart moment.

Te be fair, I am not sure the speech was necessary but I thought for those that possibly still had any doubt, riding the dragon sent a clear and powerful message that they had a chance with her to conquer.
 

SO91

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As an audience, we already knew both those things. And as far as #1, did the Dothraki really need to learn more details?

The speech was a little corny and maybe you can argue a bit redundant, but she made a similar speech to the khals she burned to death, not the entire khalasar. Also "A Khal who cannot ride is no khal" is Dothraki saying, and she just showed up riding the baddest mount in the world. I guess she really needed to hammer the point home to the rest of the khalasar.
 

Chaplin

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The speech was a little corny and maybe you can argue a bit redundant, but she made a similar speech to the khals she burned to death, not the entire khalasar. Also "A Khal who cannot ride is no khal" is Dothraki saying, and she just showed up riding the baddest mount in the world. I guess she really needed to hammer the point home to the rest of the khalasar.

See, I get that reason. I just don't think it's valid, because she simply didn't need to hammer the point home. She killed the khals and came out of the fire without burning. That was enough for Drogo's khalasar back in the day and it was enough for the rest of them in season 6. IMO, of course.
 

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Great point - valeryian steel kills white walkers.

That makes sense if Sam is heading back to the North. If he still ends up going to Oldtown, then I don't see this as a reason for taking the sword. I hope it's more than just a "screw you dad" decision. I saw this posted by someone somewhere else: By taking the sword and heading North, it ensures his father, a great military commander, pursues him and gets to know what exactly is going on in the North and with the white walkers, raising the awareness of the Reach and people in the south. Sam's brother dismissed the notion of WWs like they were a fairytale and people like him will not listen to Sam, but will believe a guy like Randyll Tarly.
 

Covert Rain

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See, I get that reason. I just don't think it's valid, because she simply didn't need to hammer the point home. She killed the khals and came out of the fire without burning. That was enough for Drogo's khalasar back in the day and it was enough for the rest of them in season 6. IMO, of course.

That might be enough to get them to obey her. That's not the same thing as getting them to believe they can beat a more modern army that is better equipped. By showing them she controls the dragons that shows something else entirely.

That makes sense if Sam is heading back to the North. If he still ends up going to Oldtown, then I don't see this as a reason for taking the sword. I hope it's more than just a "screw you dad" decision. I saw this posted by someone somewhere else: By taking the sword and heading North, it ensures his father, a great military commander, pursues him and gets to know what exactly is going on in the North and with the white walkers, raising the awareness of the Reach and people in the south. Sam's brother dismissed the notion of WWs like they were a fairytale and people like him will not listen to Sam, but will believe a guy like Randyll Tarly.

That's feasible but did you get the impression is his father had a massive army? He seemed more privileged verses someone with vast military resources. I was interrupted by my daughter during that arrival scene so maybe I missed something. At any point, it was sort of pointless to point out what the sword was made of unless it's going to be something that is used against the Whitewalkers later. I have to admit, I sort of like the screw you dad scenario after the way he was treated.
 
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Chaplin

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That might be enough to get them to obey her. That's not the same thing as getting them to believe they can beat a more modern army that is better equipped. By showing them she controls the dragons that shows something else entirely.



That's feasible but did you get the impression is his father had a massive army? He seemed more privileged verses someone with vast military resources. I was interrupted by my daughter during that arrival scene so maybe I missed something. At any point, it was sort of pointless to point out what the sword was made of unless it's going to be something that is used against the Whitewalkers later. I have to admit, I sort of like the screw you dad scenario after the way he was treated.

She could do that without the cheesy Braveheart speech.
 

Covert Rain

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She could do that without the cheesy Braveheart speech.

We agree about the speech. Honestly, she could have just landed with the dragon...everyone cheer and it would have been fine.
 

SO91

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That might be enough to get them to obey her. That's not the same thing as getting them to believe they can beat a more modern army that is better equipped. By showing them she controls the dragons that shows something else entirely.



That's feasible but did you get the impression is his father had a massive army? He seemed more privileged verses someone with vast military resources. I was interrupted by my daughter during that arrival scene so maybe I missed something. At any point, it was sort of pointless to point out what the sword was made of unless it's going to be something that is used against the Whitewalkers later. I have to admit, I sort of like the screw you dad scenario after the way he was treated.

Stout will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tarly's are sworn to the Tyrells and he's portrayed as one of the best military men in the 7Ks. As such a big and important house, I imagine he has the manpower, or the ability to raise the necessary manpower, as well as the clout to get the Tyrells involved. They certainly have the resources for it.
 

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Stout will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tarly's are sworn to the Tyrells and he's portrayed as one of the best military men in the 7Ks. As such a big and important house, I imagine he has the manpower, or the ability to raise the necessary manpower, as well as the clout to get the Tyrells involved. They certainly have the resources for it.

Which is interesting that the Tarly's haven't been involved in anything. Even with the most prominent Tyrell's imprisoned. You'd think one of the best military men in the 7 Kingdoms would be sought after with all the battles going on.
 

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Which is interesting that the Tarly's haven't been involved in anything. Even with the most prominent Tyrell's imprisoned. You'd think one of the best military men in the 7 Kingdoms would be sought after with all the battles going on.

They have had no battles in a while though. The last one was at the Blackwater, was it not?
 

Covert Rain

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Stout will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tarly's are sworn to the Tyrells and he's portrayed as one of the best military men in the 7Ks. As such a big and important house, I imagine he has the manpower, or the ability to raise the necessary manpower, as well as the clout to get the Tyrells involved. They certainly have the resources for it.

I just looked it up and it's listed as one of the strongest houses. So I guess he does have the means. It just seems like House Tyrell is so far removed from the Whitewalker situation. If they were going to back up any battle anytime soon it would be against what is going on in King's Landing. Plus I doubt short of seeing a Whitewalker in person he will ever believe they exist. I didn't get the impression they were headed all the way back up North.
 

SO91

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I just looked it up and it's listed as one of the strongest houses. So I guess he does have the means. It just seems like House Tyrell is so far removed from the Whitewalker situation. If they were going to back up any battle anytime soon it would be against what is going on in Kinds Landing. Plus I doubt short of seeing a Whitewalker in person he will ever believe they exist.

That's the point of my post. Nobody in The Reach, or down South, or KLs for that matter are even aware of the Whitewalker situation. Sam can tell them all and they wouldn't believe it unless they see them with their own eyes. This is all speculation of course, but it would take someone like Randyll Tarly seeing them and reporting back to get the shift in focus to the Wall, and the only chance of that happening is him heading North for an important reason.
 

Chaplin

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They have had no battles in a while though. The last one was at the Blackwater, was it not?

Blackwater was pretty big and the Tyrell's were sworn to the Lannisters as well, so where were the Tarly's? And isn't there a siege at Riverrun or something? It's not like there isn't any battles going on.
 

Covert Rain

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That's the point of my post. Nobody in The Reach, or down South, or KLs for that matter are even aware of the Whitewalker situation. Sam can tell them all and they wouldn't believe it unless they see them with their own eyes. This is all speculation of course, but it would take someone like Randyll Tarly seeing them and reporting back to get the shift in focus to the Wall, and the only chance of that happening is him heading North for an important reason.

Could be. I didn't get the impression that's where they were headed. If so, they just traveled a very long way to get insulted, steal a sword and head all the way back to the wall. I hope they get double travel mileage rewards for round trips. :D
 

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Blackwater was pretty big and the Tyrell's were sworn to the Lannisters as well, so where were the Tarly's? And isn't there a siege at Riverrun or something? It's not like there isn't any battles going on.

They shifted to the Lannisters right before the Blackwater. They were with Renly up until he got magic'ed down. I don't recall seeing their banners in the show during that battle, or if it was mentioned by Sam at all.
 

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Could be. I didn't get the impression that's where they were headed. If so, they just traveled a very long way to get insulted, steal a sword and head all the way back to the wall. I hope they get double travel mileage rewards for round trips. :D

Lol, yeah I didn't get that impression either. I'm guessing he heads to Oldtown like he planned and mentioned to his father, so the old man will know exactly where to go look for him. This seems a lot like the "screw you dad" motive I mentioned earlier. It seems nice considering how he was treated, but serves no purpose other than to get himself sliced up.
 

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Stout will correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tarly's are sworn to the Tyrells and he's portrayed as one of the best military men in the 7Ks. As such a big and important house, I imagine he has the manpower, or the ability to raise the necessary manpower, as well as the clout to get the Tyrells involved. They certainly have the resources for it.

Yep. You guys played it out in the discussion as far as where he would have been during the show. IIRC, he was more active, yet still offscreen (off page?) in the books.
 

Dback Jon

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From the book (but relating to action that happened during Robert's Rebellion)

Along with his Liege Lord Mace Tyrell, Randyll fought on the Targaryen side in Robert's Rebellion. He commanded the royalist victory at the Battle of Ashford - the only defeat that Robert Baratheon ever suffered in the entire war.


And relating to the on-going war:

In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, Lord Randyll Tarly is considered one of the best battlefield commanders in the Seven Kingdoms, a general able to read the ground, weather conditions, and how a battle is progressing with impressive accuracy. During Robert's Rebellion he inflicted Robert's only defeat while commanding the Tyrell vanguard at the Battle of Ashford. During the later stages of the rebellion he helped Lord Mace Tyrell besiege Storm's End, and bent the knee after the death of King Aerys II Targaryen. He wields the Valyrian steel sword Heartsbane in battle and is said to be utterly merciless to his foes. Although a ruthless and stern man, he is not outright sadistic, often dispensing strict justice that is nonetheless within the bounds of the law.

Randyll has always treated Sam harshly. When Sam suggested to be send to the Citadel in Oldtown, Randyll answered furiously "They make you wear a chain about your neck. If it is chains you want, come with me". He ruthlessly had Sam manacled hand and foot to a wall for three days and three nights. The chain around Sam's throat was so tight it broke the skin, and whenever he rolled the wrong way in his sleep it would cut off his breath. That experience has traumized poor Sam so much, that long time afterwards he objected (fruitlessly) to Jon's command to travel to the Citadel, although he has always wanted that.

During the War of the Five Kings, Lord Randyll commits himself to Renly Baratheon's cause, and Catelyn Stark encounters him when she visits Renly's camp to treat for Robb. When House Tyrell switches its allegiance to the Lannisters following Renly's death, most of their bannermen join them (except for essentially just House Florent): Lord Randyll follows his liege-lords, and House Tarly begins to fight on the Lannister side.

Lord Randyll treated Brienne of Tarth with open hostility while she was at Renly's camp. When he found out that several men laid wagers on the first to claim her maidenhead, he put a stop to it, but told Brienne offensively it was her fault because to his opinion women have no place on the battlefield.

In the books, while Roose Bolton was in charge of the eastern half of the Northern armies based at Harrenhal, he sent a large force of three thousand men (about a third of his command) east to attack the Crownlands. Roose had decided to betray the Starks by this point and was laying the groundwork for the Red Wedding and his subsequent takeover of the North, by intentionally killing off Stark loyalists by sending them on suicide missions. Coordinating with the Lannisters in secret, he sent his men into a trap set by a massive combined Lannister-Tyrell army, with Gregor Clegane commanding the Lannister forces and Randyll Tarly commanding the Tyrell forces. The entire Northern force was destroyed at the resulting Battle of Duskendale, all three thousand men, though a few Northern lords were taken prisoner.

Subsequently, Lord Randyll marches his army north from Duskendale to Maidenpool (east of Harrenhal, in the northeasternmost corner of the Riverlands) and easily takes the town. Unlike Gregor's Lannister men, who are more concerned with pillaging the already ravaged countryside, Randyll has his forces in Maidenpool set about fixing damage the town suffered in the war and reimposing law and order. He is very strict but not abusive, executing confirmed bandits and deserters who were raiding the smallfolk of the countryside, in order to discourage other outlaws from making further unrest.
 

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