Game Thread: Suns vs. Hawks

[Yuma]

Like I said again, he had a bad shooting night, but he came up in the 4th quarter. He played great defense all night.

He had 6 assists and 4 steals. Not to mention all the deflections.

Having a good game doesn't mean he has to put up 20 points.

Who are you talking about???

 

[sly fly]

Tough loss. But...

ATL played tough. They hit big shots all night long. Glover and Jackson were a handful.

Abdur-Rahim gave Amare a little lesson in playing with your back to the basket.

ATL would have beaten most teams tonight.

Marbury needs to do a better job of getting JJ involved early. JJ rarely touched the ball to begin the game (unless he was getting one of his 4 steals). It's becoming a troubling trend in the play of Marbury.

Amare finally got his first assist with the unexpected dish to Marion. Amare will have to become more aware of the players around him. He's still so raw. His ball IQ won't even hit it's apex for another few 5 years. And, that's scary.

Jahid White was the steal of the season, so far. You think Brevin Knight would be making this much difference?

This would have been a nice game to win. Let's hope FJ can make something out of it.

 

[Chaplin]

How can the guys in the front office (i.e. Bryan Colangelo) look at a loss against a team in the 2nd of a back-to-back AND is one of the worst in the Eastern Conference, no less, and be pleased with the job being done by the coaching staff?

It would be good to know who has the most influence in substitutions, but right now, you have to assume that it's Frank Johnson, and I just don't understand how BC can honestly look at the job he is doing with this team, in and outside of game-time situations, and be pleased.

After hearing in a million times, the common excuses for players in losses like this (of which the Suns are very familiar) get pretty old and stale. With the talent level of this team, there is no question we should have won tonight. The question is, why didn't we? A good answer might be our performance against the zone. Okay, what do we do to counter it? Well, we move without the ball and make stronger passes--passing to the post wouldn't be a bad idea either. But we don't do it. Do we blame that on the players? Some, I suppose. But 2 things: 1) Are those types of plays being called by the coach, and 2) does the coach actually practice against zones on off days? By the looks of these guys, neither 1 nor 2 look to be yes answers. ANd that is the fault of one Frank Johnson. No question.

Of course, we don't know as much as the coach, but that's a convenient way for others to discount our knowledge as biased and irrational.

 

[matt_whitlock]

And the Suns play in Houston on Friday.

Boy, would I like to be a Rockets fan right now!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I was talking about JJ.

Why isn't Anyone complaining about Amare's shooting? he shot 30% tonight.

Penny shot 0-4 tonight. JJ would have made at least 1-4

I just don't understand the frustration everyone has with JJ after this game. He was under control, and didn't let a poor shooting night affect his game.

Here is his line for tonight:

8 points, 4 steals, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 TO, 2-5 3pt, 25% shooting overall, 1-1 from the line in 38 minutes.

That is a solid game from a role player.

 

[Yuma]

Last game GS went to small ball in the fourth and lost!! Their big men were killing us and then they took them out of the equation late and we won. Tonight, our centers were able to score and keep ATL honest. Then we take them out of the fourth late and go small ball and lose. Hmmmm. I think I am seeing a pattern here. Hulk see pattern. Why FJ no see??

 

[Chaz]

Why not just promote Gurgurich or one of the other assistants?

If we are still inder .500 in a month I think they have to.

Amare Stoudemire
F 40 3-10 0-0 3-6 3 7 10 1 6 0 4 1 9

thats 1 assist on the Marion 3.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Like I said again, he had a bad shooting night, but he came up in the 4th quarter. He played great defense all night.

He had 6 assists and 4 steals. Not to mention all the deflections.

Having a good game doesn't mean he has to put up 20 points.

that's great and all - but shooting 3-12 consistently will not help this team in the long run - a solid NBA pro can do both - play defense and shoot the ball - especially a shooting guard. 8 points and good defense (even though his man doubled his point total) doesn't cut it when your team depends on you to be a scoring option - like most teams do with their shooting guards. If you are an offensive liability for most of the game - your team will suffer - no matter what kind of D you play - especially considering his man outscored him tonight - and in a close game - that is what matters.

As far as coiming up big in the fourth - he hit two shots, but when it came down to ultimate money time - just like against the Lakers - he did what he always does - come up short - that last shot was terrible with a man right in his face and time on the clock. The next big shot JJ hits will be his first.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
[B

8 points, 4 steals, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 TO, 2-5 3pt, 25% shooting overall, 1-1 from the line in 38 minutes.

That is a solid game from a role player. [/B]

that's a solid game from a role/bench player - not a starting shooting guard getting 38 minutes.

 

[Chaplin]

Frankly, I like it when JJ comes out and plays well. I like it a lot. But I'm tired of everyone and the media playing it like he's our focal point? What is that about? He is no better than our 4th option and Frank and the Republic treat him like he's our Vince Carter. I'm sick of it.

It's the end of the game, you need a 3-pointer to tie it--who do you give it to? I don't care if JJ had 2 made earlier--that didn't include the 14 he missed before that. You give the ball to Stephon Marbury or Shawn Marion. Period. I don't care who you are.

I'm sick of Joe Johnson. I wish he was more consistent, but how much longer do we have to endure the pain of watching him try to be a clutch player when he has PROVEN for years now that he is not? Any production we get out of him is gravy. But him having a good defensive game doesn't turn the loss into a win, does it?

 

[Wally]

Did small-ball almost pull it out or did it loose the game? Your guess is as good as mine as long as you agree that FJ was out-coached again.
I will have to say that White did a great job tonight - too bad about the fouls .... I think the officials called a bunch of @!?* fouls on the Suns.
I can't believe CJ only got 8 minutes tonight - It seemed like he was in the game forever. Was he in the game at crunch time because of his great defensive skill?

 

[Yuma]

It would be good to know who has the most influence in substitutions, but right now, you have to assume that it's Frank Johnson, and I just don't understand how BC can honestly look at the job he is doing with this team, in and outside of game-time situations, and be pleased.

That Utah game showed what a well coached team with less talent could do!! It was a sweet game of coaching for them. We need a coach like that to get the most out of the talent we have. Noone moves away from the ball. Utah was moving and setting picks away from the ball and getting good open shots. We need a coach like that!

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr


8 points, 4 steals, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 TO, 2-5 3pt, 25% shooting overall, 1-1 from the line in 38 minutes.

That is a solid game from a role player.

25% shooting isn't "solid" for any professional basketball player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I was talking about JJ.

Why isn't Anyone complaining about Amare's shooting? he shot 30% tonight.

Because Amare doesn't shoot 30 percent every night like JJ does (sorry - in two games JJ shot over 40%).

 

[matt_whitlock]

How can the guys in the front office (i.e. Bryan Colangelo) look at a loss against a team in the 2nd of a back-to-back AND is one of the worst in the Eastern Conference, no less, and be pleased with the job being done by the coaching staff?

One thing to add to that is the last 3 pointer Stephon Marbury took. I almost feel bad for him in that situation. I mean, he has so much talent, he has 3 3-point shooters around him in Jacobsen, Johnson, and Marion, and that's the shot he can get?

RIGHT OUT OF A 20-SECOND TIME OUT!

What was said in that time out? Did Frank Johnson even draw up a play? Did he talk to the guys? I saw him smiling a helluva lot at the end of the game. Maybe he thought of a good joke, and took the 20 second time out to tell it.

FJ: "Okay okay, a guy walks into a bar. Ouch!"

Stephon: "Coach, a play?"

FJ: "Ouch!! Ahahahah!! Get it, he walked into a bar, it's like a, a, uhhh... like a metaphor or something.. ahahaha!!!"

Joe Johnson: "Dad, don't we want to run a play?"

Buzzer sounds, and everybody walks onto the court, confused...

To be quite honest, that's the only explanation I can give right now to explain that play we ran coming out of the timeout. If FJ actually drew up a play where Stephon catches the ball 30 feet from the basket, dribbles slowly to the top of the key, fakes once, and shoots... I dunno..

Wow.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I was talking about JJ.

Why isn't Anyone complaining about Amare's shooting? he shot 30% tonight.

Again, IMO this returns to the play calling aspect of FJ's coaching. Amare has yet to see a real steady, solid all-around game, mostly because FJ is afraid to go to him on a consistent basis. For some reason, I really wish Westphal was around...

 

[scotsman13]

atl played very well. period. i liked a lot of the things that they suns did during this game. most of the game the suns had a big men on the court. abdur-rahim has spent over half of his time in the nba at the small forward spot. and shawn did as good of a job defensively as he could have.

anyone that thinks that penny would have made a differance in this game hasnt watched him. every year we hear how good penny is going to be and every year he lets us down. penny is more washed up then googs is.

the one thing that upsets me is that the suns didnt get the ball to amare more. no one and i do mean no one can stop him and he only got 10 shots tonight. also barbosa should have been given more time along with zarko. i personally didnt have a problem with that last shot from jj. he had a screen in front of him and had about a yard of space between him and his defender. i wish that someone would have come out and set a pick for marbury and his last shot.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by matt_whitlock
One thing to add to that is the last 3 pointer Stephon Marbury took. I almost feel bad for him in that situation. I mean, he has so much talent, he has 3 3-point shooters around him in Jacobsen, Johnson, and Marion, and that's the shot he can get?

He also took it after only a single second came off the clock after inbounding it--and that was after Joe Johnson took his 3-pointer with 14 seconds still on the clock.

There is no time management at the end of the game, and that is FJ's fault, yet again. Out of a timeout no less.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

That is my point Chap. I don't see why everyone expects such high scoring from him. If he gets his assists and around 10 points a game that is awesome.

BTW cheese, our starting SG doesn't need to do much. Steph, Shawn and Amare should make up 60% of our point total every night.

He is a streaky offensive player. Dion glover is only shooting 1% more than JJ on the year. Manu Ginobili is shooting almost identical numbers for the year. Chauncy Billups is shooting worse than JJ.

I didnt feel like looking up all the starting 2guards in the league, but I made a point to put 3 good teams up to prove they dont need to shoot the lights out.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
That is my point Chap. I don't see why everyone expects such high scoring from him. If he gets his assists and around 10 points a game that is awesome.

BTW cheese, our starting SG doesn't need to do much. Steph, Shawn and Amare should make up 60% of our point total every night.

He is a streaky offensive player. Dion glover is only shooting 1% more than JJ on the year. Manu Ginobili is shooting almost identical numbers for the year. Chauncy Billups is shooting worse than JJ.

I didnt feel like looking up all the starting 2guards in the league, but I made a point to put 3 good teams up to prove they dont need to shoot the lights out.

But we were specifically talking about tonight. He has never proven to be a clutch player, and up until the 4th quarter, what was he-- 0 of 14? I mean, I don't care who you are, that isn't the guy you want the ball in his hands at the end of a game where you absolutely need a 3 to tie the game.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

True, but it isnt the guy you definetly dont want the ball with.

The shot he took was horrible. It was a decent look, but it was far out and rushed.

However, I wouldn't be upset to see him have to shoot it with the clock winding down. I would rather him shoot it than Jacobson, and Amare

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
But we were specifically talking about tonight.

I know, I was just trying to say he didn't have a bad game, and it was far from horrible.

Then someone argued that unless he can shoot a high percentage he is worthless as our starter. I just don't think that is a correct statement, and I don't think anyone would call any of the other players I mentioned worthless.

 

[matt_whitlock]

I didnt feel like looking up all the starting 2guards in the league, but I made a point to put 3 good teams up to prove they dont need to shoot the lights out.

Oh come on! There's a difference between "shooting the lights out" and shooting like Joe Johnson. The guy seems to invent new ways to miss shots. Even on his good games he can't shoot well. So in one out of four games he'll shoot alright, and in the other 3, he shoots 25% from the field.

We need somebody at shooting guard who makes his teamates better, who can knock down the open shot, who can initiate the offense, and who can fill up a stat sheet pretty well given enough time. There seems to be a general consensus that Amare hasn't gotten enough touches downlow, also.

Hmm, if only we had somebody who could get him the ball, and who proved last year that he would be our best player at doing that.

I got an idea though. Instead of that, let's tie a handkerchief over Joe Johnson's eyes and see if it'll improve his shooting. (Sarcasm)

 

[Wally]

The problem with JJ is not all his fault. Who do you think tells him to keep shooting when he's not hitting his shot. I will say that most everyone I hear says a shooter has to keep shooting but then the same guy say's "get the ball to the hot hand". Why not just say it the way it is - When you're hot, you're hot - when you're not , you're not.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I gave all of those players shooting percentages in comparrsion to JJs. Are you saying you wouldn't want Billups or Manu to start for the suns at the 2g because they are shooting equally as bad as JJ right now...........