Give me ANYTHING, that convinces me that Kolb has more upside than Skelton

[ASUCHRIS]

Ding ding ding!!

And the back and forth about Kolb, his trade value, and production thus far should end there.

You couldn't be more wrong. Having a top 10 QB is essentially a requirement to NFL success. We obviously don't have anything near that, and will continue to be a bottom dweller until we get one.

 

[CardLogic]

I know when I watch him (Skelton) I have hope, when I watch Kolb I have despair, that's about all I know.

Love this!

 

[ajcardfan]

Yeah, between those two, I don't think the outcome will change, so I would rather have Kolb get completely healed before resuming his duties.

Yeah, it's kind of like arguing about which three-legged horse to enter in the Kentucky Derby.


Reminds me of the good old days and the Jeff Blake v. Josh McCown arguments. All we need is Bartel to step into the role of Shaun King and we'll have perfectly replicated the trifecta of suckatude.

 

[cardpa]

Yeah, it's kind of like arguing about which three-legged horse to enter in the Kentucky Derby.


Reminds me of the good old days and the Jeff Blake v. Josh McCown arguments. All we need is Bartel to step into the role of Shaun King and we'll have perfectly replicated the trifecta of suckatude.

 

[WisconsinCard]

You couldn't be more wrong. Having a top 10 QB is essentially a requirement to NFL success. We obviously don't have anything near that, and will continue to be a bottom dweller until we get one.

You are correct sir, just ask the colts. Did they suddenly forget how to play? Peyton or any top 5 QB just makes the whole better.

 

[JeffGollin]

Well considering that Kolb has had an entire new offense thrown at him and only a few months to run it, training on the run literally. I would imagine a guy like Skelton who's been here longer and had plenty of practice time in this system would know the system a little better at this point...

Your assumption may be off. Skelton appeared in four games last season, was prevented from benefitting from the offseason due to the Lockout and got few if any practice reps or preseason snaps due to a high ankle sprain.

 

[Phrazbit]

Well considering that Kolb has had an entire new offense thrown at him and only a few months to run it, training on the run literally. I would imagine a guy like Skelton who's been here longer and had plenty of practice time in this system would know the system a little better at this point, fact is outside the one TD drive and a few nice throws he wasn't very good either. Think it just shows that our offensive system and coaching and playcalling are still as terrible as it has been all year! Our O line still stinks! 2 freaking safeties in one game really? Without PP 21 and his punt returns this team would be winless right now think about that! Kolb will be fine when/if our genius coach fixes the line and we get a real OC that actually designs an offense around the players we actually have and stop trying to relive the Warner days!

I love how Kolb needs time to learn to play... when he has been in the league for 5 years, yet the 2nd year player from division 2 already can handle the speed of the NFL and read a blitz much better than Kolb.

Kolb is supposed to be the polished player, Skelton is supposed to be the raw guy, not the other way around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I love how Kolb needs time to learn to play... when he has been in the league for 5 years, yet the 2nd year player from division 2 already can handle the speed of the NFL and read a blitz much better than Kolb.

Kolb is supposed to be the polished player, Skelton is supposed to be the raw guy, not the other way around.

I really didn't expect either of them to be polished players this season but between the two, I certainly expected Kolb to be quite a bit further along.

Steve

 

[52brandon]

I dont see the comparison. In Tebow's case he lacks a lot of the fundamental tools. He has lousy arm strength, bad mechanics, a really really slow release and no awareness.

While Skelton certainly has a lot of natural ability. He has a cannon, good footwork, quick release. But he lacks for accuracy, and he does not read defenses well.

When I say I would rather see Skelton in there than Kolb I am not claiming that I think Skelton is a future pro-bowler. Its just I see a lot more raw potential and talent there than I see in Kolb, who I think has no real strengths as a QB.

I was just comparing them both having the super devout fans that cause super devout haters. Very different QBs

Man that has been my thought from time to time too. If he is I don't see him as being the long term solution at QB. Tebow will never win consistently in Denver either. Too inconsistent. You can get away with that in college but you are not going to get away with it in the NFL.

agreed

I don't think anyone is a devout anything about Skelton.

He's IMO the best QB on the roster right now with the most upside but that's not by MY choice that's just how the FO decisions have panned out.

I wouldn't if I were in charge have drafted him but he's there just the same and so I'm pretty sure he's the best QB on the roster.

That's a long way from being a fan of his, especially since I'd rather draft someone else.

when I was leaving the game I overheard a group of "experts" proclaiming Skelton will be a successful starter somewhere in 4 years. Those guys create the Skelton haters. I think he's pretty good, but I can't say he's gonna be the next Tom Brady like these other fans. I can see how others get annoyed. He's got potential, but so does Kolb. Kolb got such a big contract that we should really be playing and evaluating him right now. I still hope he can be our guy, but it needs to be addressed one way or another. I don't see the upside in starting Skelton over Kolb this season if they're both healthy

 

[52brandon]

No one has still given a reason why Kolb has more upside than Skelton...

ok. Since we're going on Skelton's first game of the season, against a bad team. Compare it to Kolb's:
Kolb week 1:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=310911022

Skelton sunday:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311106022

and they both ended the same, with a PP runback bailout lol

 

[Stout]

Skelton was anything but spectacular in the Rams game. I'll be the first to admit that, and I'm a big fan of him as a future NFL starter. Those back-to-back safeties were just painful to watch.

That said, Skelton did two things that Kolb has been utterly unable to accomplish: he led his team in a late, clutch drive, and he played like an actual NFL QB in the pocket.

I was looking at one aspect of the game this week, and that was comparing what Skelton did on each passing play to what Kolb might have done in the same situation, as the play unfolded around him. Watching plays where Skelton coolly stepped up into the pocket, bought some time, and completed a pass, even an underneath pass, was a real breath of fresh air. I mean, I know it's an exaggeration, but Wells finally caught his first few passes of the season, eh?

Well, given my focus in watching this game, I don't see how Kolb would have even engineered a FG drive, let alone managed to keep us in the game. Sadly, I DO see how he could have given up the safeties (as he has already done).

In this one game, Skelton has shown more comfort in this offense than Kolb has. If it weren't for the fact that Kolb is doing the most non-instinctual things as an NFL QB, I'd say it was just experience in the system. I don't give a good damn HOW much they may have encouraged Kolb to run around backwards in Philly (I still doubt that particular explanation). It should NOT be rocket science for an NFL QB to figure out how to step up into a pocket. Keep Skelton in there, please. Kolb's play is just plain garbage.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was just comparing them both having the super devout fans that cause super devout haters. Very different QBs

Well, I still think the Tebow comparison is way off the mark. Show me a team with a struggling QB and I'll show you a backup that fans are clamoring to see. The situation with Skelton is just like what plays out several times a year; the situation with Tebow is unique.

I just don't see all that many (any?) super devout Skelton fans. So far, Kolb has stunk it up and while there may be a thousand excuses for his performance none of them change that fact. I think the Skelton hate comes from people so strongly in Kolb's corner they can't see clearly when they hear people mention John as his possible replacement. As for Skelton, I'm sure there's a few people strongly in his corner but I'd bet that most of us want to see him primarily because he isn't Kolb.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

ok. Since we're going on Skelton's first game of the season, against a bad team. Compare it to Kolb's:
Kolb week 1:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=310911022

Skelton sunday:
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=311106022

and they both ended the same, with a PP runback bailout lol

Stats aren't what we're looking for it's the things that differentiate a career backup from a starter. Ability to read defenses, poise in the pocket, accuracy, etc. What traits does Kolb posses that make him a $60 million dollar man?

Kolb's biggest problem to me is that he scrambles blindly and away from the los, that is, he isn't consistently looking downfield while moving. Something say a guy like BenR does very well. Plummer used to drive me crazy his first couple of years because he would duck his head when he scrambled and so couldn't see defenders or his receivers. He finally started keeping his head up and was a little more successful in finding receivers while running from defenders. A critical thing for QBs.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, I still think the Tebow comparison is way off the mark. Show me a team with a struggling QB and I'll show you a backup that fans are clamoring to see. The situation with Skelton is just like what plays out several times a year; the situation with Tebow is unique.

I just don't see all that many (any?) super devout Skelton fans. So far, Kolb has stunk it up and while there may be a thousand excuses for his performance none of them change that fact. I think the Skelton hate comes from people so strongly in Kolb's corner they can't see clearly when they hear people mention John as his possible replacement. As for Skelton, I'm sure there's a few people strongly in his corner but I'd bet that most of us want to see him primarily because he isn't Kolb.

Steve

I don't know if Skelton will be good or not but my guess is he's not likely to be good anytime soon and I'll explain why I think that.

first off there are very few QB's his size who succeed in the NFL, Ben is the exception and while Skelton showed he can run a bit, he's not Ben in the pocket buying extra time and then making the big plays. Newton is that big too but I think we can agree he's on a whole other level. Generally speaking really big QB's don't pan out.

He reminds me a lot of McCown in that he looks the part athletically, has the arm etc, but just lacks the "it" that makes a QB. People say he reads defenses better than Kolb that was the first time in his career he topped 200 yards passing, Kolb's had one game this season he didn't top what was a new personal high for Skelton. So if Kolb is doing that while unable to read defenses as well as Skelton then something is REALLY wrong.

Skelton is not accurate, neither has Kolb been but you can see the reasons why with his footwork issues and skittishness in the pocket. Skelton can be standing in a perfect pocket step into the throw and miss badly. He's very poor throwing the underneath stuff .

These are all things you can improve on with coaching and time but there's no evidence those things happen under whiz, with a different coach maybe but with Whiz I think he'll eventually decide he's not my guy.

It would be great if he steps up and takes the job and runs with it but I haven't seen anything yet that says he's close to ready.

I think he should play while Kolb's foot is healing and then at that point depending on how he's played you decide who is the QB going forward but my inclination is by then it will probably be clear it's not Skelton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't know if Skelton will be good or not but my guess is he's not likely to be good anytime soon and I'll explain why I think that.

first off there are very few QB's his size who succeed in the NFL, Ben is the exception and while Skelton showed he can run a bit, he's not Ben in the pocket buying extra time and then making the big plays. Newton is that big too but I think we can agree he's on a whole other level. Generally speaking really big QB's don't pan out.

He reminds me a lot of McCown in that he looks the part athletically, has the arm etc, but just lacks the "it" that makes a QB. People say he reads defenses better than Kolb that was the first time in his career he topped 200 yards passing, Kolb's had one game this season he didn't top what was a new personal high for Skelton. So if Kolb is doing that while unable to read defenses as well as Skelton then something is REALLY wrong.

Skelton is not accurate, neither has Kolb been but you can see the reasons why with his footwork issues and skittishness in the pocket. Skelton can be standing in a perfect pocket step into the throw and miss badly. He's very poor throwing the underneath stuff .

These are all things you can improve on with coaching and time but there's no evidence those things happen under whiz, with a different coach maybe but with Whiz I think he'll eventually decide he's not my guy.

It would be great if he steps up and takes the job and runs with it but I haven't seen anything yet that says he's close to ready.

I think he should play while Kolb's foot is healing and then at that point depending on how he's played you decide who is the QB going forward but my inclination is by then it will probably be clear it's not Skelton.

I actually agree. I'm in no hurry to see Kolb again but I haven't necessarily given up on him. I'd like to see what Skelton can do but I suspect he'll be much the same as he was last year. If that's the case we have to go back to Kolb when he's healthy. It's in our best interests to discover by season's end whether we actually have an NFL caliber QB on our roster. And if we do, I really could care less which guy it turns out to be. I'm a Cards fan not a Kolb fan or a Skelton fan. And if we don't have an NFL QB on our roster, it's past time to find one.

Steve

 

[Zeno]

I actually agree. I'm in no hurry to see Kolb again but I haven't necessarily given up on him. I'd like to see what Skelton can do but I suspect he'll be much the same as he was last year. If that's the case we have to go back to Kolb when he's healthy. It's in our best interests to discover by season's end whether we actually have an NFL caliber QB on our roster. And if we do, I really could care less which guy it turns out to be. I'm a Cards fan not a Kolb fan or a Skelton fan. And if we don't have an NFL QB on our roster, it's past time to find one.

Steve

I couldn't agree more. No QB = no success

 

[Russ Smith]

I actually agree. I'm in no hurry to see Kolb again but I haven't necessarily given up on him. I'd like to see what Skelton can do but I suspect he'll be much the same as he was last year. If that's the case we have to go back to Kolb when he's healthy. It's in our best interests to discover by season's end whether we actually have an NFL caliber QB on our roster. And if we do, I really could care less which guy it turns out to be. I'm a Cards fan not a Kolb fan or a Skelton fan. And if we don't have an NFL QB on our roster, it's past time to find one.

Steve

Agreed my take all along has been if Kolb isn't the guy, then the guy very likely isn't on the roster. So you want to make sure you take a long look at Kolb.

You don't have to make a quick decision with Skelton he's not making a ton of money and he doesn't seem to be a kid who will be a problem by all accounts he's a smart kid and works hard.

With Kolb being older and more time in the league you sort of want to make sure did we screw up or is there something there we can fix and get the guy we thought we were getting?

I think playing Kolb hurt would be a bad idea but if Skelton isn't clearly better, then I think you go back to Kolb to make sure you know what you have.

 

[Chopper0080]

Agreed my take all along has been if Kolb isn't the guy, then the guy very likely isn't on the roster. So you want to make sure you take a long look at Kolb.

You don't have to make a quick decision with Skelton he's not making a ton of money and he doesn't seem to be a kid who will be a problem by all accounts he's a smart kid and works hard.

With Kolb being older and more time in the league you sort of want to make sure did we screw up or is there something there we can fix and get the guy we thought we were getting?

I think playing Kolb hurt would be a bad idea but if Skelton isn't clearly better, then I think you go back to Kolb to make sure you know what you have.

Absolutely true.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Agreed my take all along has been if Kolb isn't the guy, then the guy very likely isn't on the roster. So you want to make sure you take a long look at Kolb.

You don't have to make a quick decision with Skelton he's not making a ton of money and he doesn't seem to be a kid who will be a problem by all accounts he's a smart kid and works hard.

With Kolb being older and more time in the league you sort of want to make sure did we screw up or is there something there we can fix and get the guy we thought we were getting?

I think playing Kolb hurt would be a bad idea but if Skelton isn't clearly better, then I think you go back to Kolb to make sure you know what you have.

If the bolded is true it just further speaks to the total ineptitude of the entire management team. It's been stated a bazillion times here before, but I just can't see how the supposed football minds in the organization could survive this fiasco.

If this turns out to be the case does M Bidwill have the stomach to clean house and get rid of these bunglers sooner rather than later?



.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If the bolded is true it just further speaks to the total ineptitude of the entire management team. It's been stated a bazillion times here before, but I just can't see how the supposed football minds in the organization could survive this fiasco.

oh yes you can... you just don't want to admit it to yourself. neither do any of the rest of us.

I swear, if this season continues on the way it has and Kolb looks like a disaster and Wiz and Graves escape with their jobs and then cite the lockout as the reason the season was so problematic, I'm flat out done with this team (probably much to the delight of many people here).

 

[MrYeahBut]

oh yes you can... you just don't want to admit it to yourself. neither do any of the rest of us.

I swear, if this season continues on the way it has and Kolb looks like a disaster and Wiz and Graves escape with their jobs and then cite the lockout as the reason the season was so problematic, I'm flat out done with this team (probably much to the delight of many people here).

If this does indeed come to pass and you desert the team, please come back to the board and continue to bash them so the chorus will be all the louder.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I swear, if this season continues on the way it has and Kolb looks like a disaster and Wiz and Graves escape with their jobs and then cite the lockout as the reason the season was so problematic, I'm flat out done with this team (probably much to the delight of many people here).

Meanwhile we will let Calais walk and sign three or four mid-to-low level free agents who don't pan out for the same amount of money that CC gets on the open market. It's the Cardinal Way!

 

[ajcardfan]

The sad thing is we traded for both Skelton and Kolb. Giving up 2 CBs and 3 picks (IIRC). To think that highly of two QBs and whiff on both would be mind boggling, even by our low standards.

 

[AzStevenCal]

oh yes you can... you just don't want to admit it to yourself. neither do any of the rest of us.

I swear, if this season continues on the way it has and Kolb looks like a disaster and Wiz and Graves escape with their jobs and then cite the lockout as the reason the season was so problematic, I'm flat out done with this team (probably much to the delight of many people here).

I think you just told us goodbye, hope you didn't really mean it. Seriously, unless you expect Kolb and the team to turn it around you've pretty much hinged your Cardinals fandom on events you already know will happen. They will keep their phoney baloney jobs and Whiz will almost certainly blame this debacle of a season on the lockout.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

If this does indeed come to pass and you desert the team, please come back to the board and continue to bash them so the chorus will be all the louder.

lol... i would never do that to y'all.