Grizzlies @ Suns game thread 12-21-17

[SirStefan32]

I'd be fine with keeping Chandler except we need to create a roster spot when Booker returns so we can keep Canaan. House is on a Two-Way deal and it's unlikely he's let go so we can convert Canaan's contract to a Two-Way just to keep him up here. I don't think he can sign one of those anyways since he's been in the league over 4 years. We could waive James but that's unlikely to happen. I'd rather keep Monroe to trade him at the deadline than buy him out right now.

But if you trade Chandler, you'll have to receive something in return, so that doesn't create a roster spot. Same applies to trading anyone, unless they can trade two for one. I don't see why waiving James is not likely. He is terrible. Canaan has made him expendable. If push comes to shove, they can waive Monroe, though I agree that they should try to trade him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I would be surprised if they waived James. Ideally that's what would happen but since he just signed a deal and made history as the first Two-Way contract converted to an NBA deal, I don't see it happening.

They could trade Chandler to a team with cap space, or trade any player in a move like that. They could make a 2 for 1 trade also but there are a number of teams out there with trade exceptions available also. I'm not sure what sort of pick he'd warrant but maybe if we unloaded some of our 2nd round picks with him we could get a late 1st round pick in return, if a team has a trade exception so they could use that to fit him in. Or we could take back an expiring contract and immediately waive the player, it could be an injured player, a vet, who knows. There are ways to trade someone though and not get a player back in return.

 

[Haunting]

The plus/minus was telling, again. I imagine when Booker returns some changes will be made to the starting 5. They'll have to work him back into the lineup anyways, which I think will push House out of the rotation, and maybe try starting Bender again or give Canaan the starting PG spot. Ulis has been good, or better at least, when he's came off the bench.

I wish they'd let Chandler go, he adds nothing and Monroe and Len are clearly better Centers. They're better rebounders and scorers. Monroe is a good passer for a big also.

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What a joke, Bender still has the overall worst net ratings.

 

[Haunting]

I tend to agree that changes to the starting lineup need to be made. In my opinion, Len and Bender need to start. They've earned it over Chriss, Chandler, and Monroe. Canaan should likely start over Ullis as well. Don't know if I agree that they should trade Chandler. I don't think he does any harm, and it's good to have an old guy on the roster with that type of experience. I wouldn't be upset if they traded him, but I really don't feel strongly about it either way.

Bender earned it by being dead last in RPM for his position and across the board one of the worst players in the NBA. Right son.

Try to be less biased for a change.

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While Chriss has struggled compared to last season in terms of shooting and thus overall PER. He is still miles away from being as unproductive as Bender.

 

[Haunting]

There is also "REAL Plus/Minus" and "Box Plus/Minus".

Here is a link for Real +/-, which is an ESPN stats primarily.
Here is the ESPN explanation on that.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus

Here is more on BPM from Deadspin.


Here is some explanation for Box +/-, Box +/- is an average figured per 100 possessions.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

What I posted above though was just regular +/-, no fancy averaging just basic plus/minus for the time a player is on the court. It's a good tool to see how much a player contributes overall.

RPM has nothing to with "averaging".

Basic plus minus is about as useful as FG%.

 

[Haunting]

I know Bender played probably his worst game of the season during his 1 start but I think he deserves another chance, especially since he's got the mask gone now. If they don't start Bender maybe they can go back to the smaller lineup of Jackson and Warren at Forward, bringing Chriss off the bench. Chriss shouldn't be starting, he's been awful.

Chriss has been leading the Suns in Defensive Rating, Defensive Box Plus Minus, middle of the pack in win shares and fluctuating in the middle of the pack in RPM..

The only thing that is AWFUL is your basketball analytic skills.

Josh Jackson, Tyler Ulis and Dragan Bender are 3 of the worst players in the entire NBA by multiple measures.

None of them should be starting.

 

[Chaplin]

Chriss has been leading the Suns in Defensive Rating, Defensive Box Plus Minus, middle of the pack in win shares and fluctuating in the middle of the pack in RPM..

The only thing that is AWFUL is your basketball analytic skills.

Josh Jackson, Tyler Ulis and Dragan Bender are 3 of the worst players in the entire NBA by multiple measures.

None of them should be starting.

WATCH A GAME! My god, your only contribution is THIS? It's against the rules to re-register after being banned and pretend you aren't you we all know you are.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Chriss has been leading the Suns in Defensive Rating, Defensive Box Plus Minus, middle of the pack in win shares and fluctuating in the middle of the pack in RPM..

The only thing that is AWFUL is your basketball analytic skills.

Josh Jackson, Tyler Ulis and Dragan Bender are 3 of the worst players in the entire NBA by multiple measures.

None of them should be starting.

Man. Have you watched a game?

 

[Mainstreet]

They traded for him in 2015, in what was actually a good deal for them. They traded a 1st for him but it was top 12 protected in 2015 and 16, if it didn't convey during those 2 years though it then turned into 2nd round picks in 2016 and 2017. So all the picks have been paid off, that was a deal with Boston during the 2014-15 season.

I know I was biting a bullet on that Wright trade for awhile. He did not produce as expected for the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

But if you trade Chandler, you'll have to receive something in return, so that doesn't create a roster spot. Same applies to trading anyone, unless they can trade two for one. I don't see why waiving James is not likely. He is terrible. Canaan has made him expendable. If push comes to shove, they can waive Monroe, though I agree that they should try to trade him.

Maybe we can waive who we get in return in a Chandler trade if it is an expiring contract.

Trading two for one might work depending upon the players and who the Suns get in return.

Ulis is not any better than James except the Suns have him under contract for two more seasons.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just some thoughts on TJ Warren.

1. His body position and scoring is just phenomenal. He seems to know exactly where the hoop is at all times.
2. His defense is much improved. He is at least an average defender at this moment.
3. His three point shot seems to be improving. There is not reason why he cannot hit consistently from there. Right now, its just in his mind. His form is fine, his ability to shoot is fine. He just needs to keep shooting. Once he can shoot from three, he will be nearly unstoppable. He is still scoring a lot without Devin. If he can learn to score in the 20's while being the focus of the D, we have something.