Henry for Shelton trade agreed in principle.

[Chainthroer]

The last Cards RB to run over 1,100 was Otis Anderson (yrs 79 thru 84). No improvement over that since 1984. Travis obviously would be a real big improvement.

 

[Russ Smith]

You've probably also read a lot about the offensive line really coming together about midway through the season. That's been cited as a big reason for their turnaround, too.

Here's my take on that, either the OL gelled right around the time they benched Henry, or the schedule got markedly easier, or Bledsoe got better at avoiding sacks, or McGahee made a big difference in the sacks. My educated guess is there's truth in all of those to some extent. But I can find distinct quotes from Bills coaches about what a great job McGahee is doing in blitz pickups, so I'm pretty sure there was at least something to the notion that Henry wasn't doing his job in that area.

From looking I think the biggest reason was schedule, their games got a TON easier during that hot streak, Rams, Seattle, Miami, Cleveland, Cincy, SF. I'm not saying McGahee turned the whole year around but he clearly helped turn it around and something dramatically turned that OL around because the first 4 games McGahee started they gave up 3 sacks combined, after giving up 23 in the 5 games started by Henry.

Not saying Travis Henry is the whole reason they gave up those sacks but that number just jumps out at me.

Like I said Henry is a good RB, I think he can help us, but if we're starting a young QB with him at RB watch out for sacks.

 

[joeshmo]

You've probably also read a lot about the offensive line really coming together about midway through the season. That's been cited as a big reason for their turnaround, too.

Not to mention they changed the play calling, Bledsoe started to throw the ball quicker, and the emergence of Lee Evans later on in the season. That had nothing to do with it either. Russ is getting into that old Stats trap, we all have done it and those numbers he gives is very eye opening so I can see how he did get into the stat trap it is very easy to with those high numbers.

There is no substitute for actually watching the games and if he saw more of them he would know that Henry was the least of the reasons for all of the sacks.

 

[joeshmo]

The whole point at RB this offseason I thought was to get a "speed back" who fit the mold of Robert Smith, Michael Bennett.

That was ASFN's collective plan not Greens. Has green ever actually said he was looking for a speed back. All I have every heard him say was he wanted a franchise RB who will give him 1200 yards a year.

 

[KingofCards]

The last Cards RB to run over 1,100 was Otis Anderson (yrs 79 thru 84). No improvement over that since 1984. Travis obviously would be a real big improvement.

I believe Garrison Hearst went for over 1000 one year. But didn't score any touchdowns.

I hope we get some official confimation on this.

 

[azdad1978]

I believe Garrison Hearst went for over 1000 one year. But didn't score any touchdowns.

I hope we get some official confimation on this.

It was in 1995 when he rushed for a 1070 yards and he scored 1 TD.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1164

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Did Henry play when the Cards played them last year?

If so, that also fits into the FA signing check list. Correct?

As far as the blitz pickup thingy.... I gotta believe that DG and friends are looking at tape to see if this is live or memorex!

Trade last year for Hambrick and Zellner was well worth it and I will give the FO the benefit of the doubt, again.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not to mention they changed the play calling, Bledsoe started to throw the ball quicker, and the emergence of Lee Evans later on in the season. That had nothing to do with it either. Russ is getting into that old Stats trap, we all have done. There is no substitute for actually watching the games and if he saw more of them he would know that Henry was the least of the reasons for all of the sacks.

I'm not saying you're wrong I'd just like someone, you, Jerry, Pariah, someone to elaborate. Changed the play calling? What does that mean Bledsoe's attempts didn't noticeably decline after they benched Henry so they didn't decide they couldn't throw because of all the sacks.


I mean Mularkey said he made the switch to get a spark, McGahee gets more yards after contact, and he's a more versatile player in the passing game. I have seen direct quotes where he said "we struggled in blitz pickups today which is something we've been doing really well since the early season problems." I gotta think he's saying one guy is a better blocker that's why he's playing.

 

[jf-08]

Adrian Murrell rushed for 1042 yards for us in 1998 with 8 rushing TDs.

 

[azdad1978]

Did Henry play when the Cards played them last year?

It was WM that ran all over us. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041031_ARI@BUF

 

[Russ Smith]

That was ASFN's collective plan not Greens. Has green ever actually said he was looking for a speed back. All I have every heard him say was he wanted a franchise RB who will give him 1200 yards a year.

Green tried to talk Robert Smith out of retirement, and it was widely reported we were talking to Minnesota about Bennett, so yes I would assume that Green wanted a speed RB.

Henry is better than what we had for sure, no question about that. I did find a Bills fansite where the author was going on and on about how shortsighted the Bills are being moving Henry and how he's in his prime years and is a steal for us so at least one big Bills fan is not happy to see him go.

Not saying bad pickup, just saying he doesn't seem to fit DG's offense that he's used so well in the past. Remember the 2 reasons cited for Emmitt starting over Shipp, better pass blocker, better seam runner, neither seems to really say Travis Henry to me.

 

[Pariah]

. I have seen direct quotes where he said "we struggled in blitz pickups today which is something we've been doing really well since the early season problems." I gotta think he's saying one guy is a better blocker that's why he's playing.

I'm not saying Henry is a better blocker than McGahee, or better after contact, or a more versitile player in the passing game--that's not at issue here, we're not comparing McGahee and Henry (FYI, I think McGahee is a much better back than henry in most all aspects)--I'm just saying that I don't think Henry is poor at blitz pick-up.

I can't elaborate further on the offensive line coming together in the second half of the season. All I can tell you is I've seen reports where that is cited as a major reason for the turnaround. I know you know this, but I'll throw it out there anyway: blitzes aren't just picked up by the halfback.

 

[CaptTurbo]

blitzes aren't just picked up by the halfback.

Your right

Not even the majority.

 

[SeattleCard]

Man - I hope we land Henry!!

(fingers crossed)

 

[jerryp]

Please do elaborate, I'd love to here more reasons why Henry is a great pickup.

From looking at stats I see Henry started 5 games, and Bledsoe was sacked 23 times in those 5 games. McGahee started 11 games, and Bledsoe was sacked 14 times in those games.

The 5 games Henry started were Jax, Oakland, New England, NY Jets and Baltimore, 4 very good defenses one bad one. So you would EXPECT more sacks in those games but not necessarily 3.5 times more sacks. So I'd love to hear other reasons because everything I read online says one of the biggest reasons for the RB switch was all the sacks.

This is exactly why I want to go into detail, because in all probability it will be misinterpreted if it's read at all. Where did I say in my post that Henry was a great pickup for us? So I can't go into detail about why Henry is a good pickup because I never said he was. I said why he was benched. Overwhelming pressure from the fans to play a player they risked a lot in acquiring and had sat on the bench his rookie year. I said the Bills picked up because their defense and special teams are the best. I can go into detail on that. You took that to mean Henry is better, that's exactly why I have no interest in discussing this. Because I can't count on the most basic parts of my argument getting through. I will however explain my feelings on why the Bills improved, and it wasn't McGahee or Henry. Maybe it will get one person to rethink the idiocy of conventional stats and the moron writers who push them.

Straight up Russ, I don't care what you read online about the Bills. The mainstream media is so far behind on football analysis it's a joke. I've read articles where the NFL teams themselves have said that they are lightyears ahead of the media in terms of statistical analysis and all the things that get squabbled over in forums like this, stuff like the almighty 4 yards per carry stat, are not what the actual NFL teams care about. It's what local sports writers with fantasy football teams care about.

I've thrown out the footballoutsiders.com link on here gobs of times. No one seems interested so I've pretty much stopped. But if you want to look at some stuff that's a billion times closer to what the NFL teams are doing instead of comparing anecdotal evidence like how many sacks were given up when Henry started compared to McGahee, it's all right there dude. You'll see that yeah, McGahee was rated ahead of Henry in their RB ratings. You'll also notice the Bills had the #1 defense, and the #1 special teams while their offense was #21. Buffalo's defense registered like the fifth best ever rating in this system, which only goes back to 1999, but still places them up there with the '00 Ravens, '00 Titans, '01 Eagles, '02 Bucs, and the '03 Bucs/Ravens/Patriots. Buffalo's offense was #23 in passing and #19 in rushing, being 1.7% below the league average over the past five years. Oh and those rankings are adjusted for opponent by the way. So they were actually worse in terms of pure efficiency but got a slight boost from playing the Jets/Ravens/Patriots/etc.

Your sacks under Henry and sacks under McGahee is another magical sports writer stat. Come back when you know how many sacks were given up when Henry was actually in the formation and when McGahee was actually in the formation. Then remove all the sacks that were given up because they rushed 7 guys and the line/RB can only realistically get 6 of them. Then subtract all the ones that were no ones fault but Bledsoe. You can't do that of course because only the teams have that data. That's exactly what I am talking when I say the media is so far behind the teams it's laughable. Sacks per game also leaves you with a problem of terribly poor sample size where just one game with buttloads of sacks can skew the results. That's FO goes on play by play instead of game by game. Larger sample size.

So like I said, the Bills turned their season around because over that winning streak the defense and special teams gave them the ball with great field position. At one point they said something like in the last 7 games they had the ball starting out in opponents territory 26 times. Gee, I sure hope an offense looks good when it gets nearly 4 possessions a game starting from the opponents half of the field.

Yes, the offensive line gelled a little at the end, and Drew managed to keep the patting of the football to a minimum over the second half of the season but the real work was done by special teams and defense. Review the Card game. Review the final score. Ask yourself how they scored so much without any offense. First ten points were special teams starting them inside the ARZ 20. Kick return for TD. Punt at the end of the third quarter to put them inside the ARZ 20 again. No offense. Tons of points. Thank you defense/special teams.

Now, how did you turn that into Henry is a great pickup for this team? Oh that's right, you weren't interested in debating why Buffalo got better, you wanted to argue because you don't think Henry is a good pick up.

This is where you respond with FO is total garbage because their rankings don't match your mental rankings and you restate all your opinions of Henry as if that invalidates what I've said about the Bills defense carrying the load for that team.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not saying Henry is a better blocker than McGahee, or better after contact, or a more versitile player in the passing game--that's not at issue here, we're not comparing McGahee and Henry (FYI, I think McGahee is a much better back than henry in most all aspects)--I'm just saying that I don't think Henry is poor at blitz pick-up.

I can't elaborate further on the offensive line coming together in the second half of the season. All I can tell you is I've seen reports where that is cited as a major reason for the turnaround. I know you know this, but I'll throw it out there anyway: blitzes aren't just picked up by the halfback.

Agreed. I think the reason I focus on this is all the talk we've seen around here the last few years on blitz pickups. One of the reaons Jones started ahead of Shipp, better blocker Marcell needs to improve in that area. Then again with Emmitt for 2 years we were told how Shipp really needed to do a better job in that situation.

It's just something I'm conscious of now, especially with our current QB situation.

 

[chickenhead]

Especially in the last couple of years, the blitz pickup was a way to pimp Emmitt and justify him starting over Shipp (or for those who disagreed to at least feel better about it). But I think you know it's gone too far when we're considering a significant upgrade in Henry, and Bledsoe's sacks become a definitive counter argument. We specifically need a 1500 yard rusher, not a blitz blocker. Address that on the line.

 

[Faithful]

That's why it's a trade that's a agreed upon "in principle."

I gotta tell ya, I'm really disappointed to see Shelton go. I'd rather have him than Henry at this point. The one offseason it seems that RBs are growing on trees and we gotta go trade for one. Ugh.

But, that aside, I think this is one of the most equitable trades I've ever seen in football. Henry is a helluva back--I think he'll tear it up here. I'm excited to have him. The Bills are getting one heck of a football player, too. He'll be missed.

I agree with you Pariah.

 

[CardinalChris]

Anybody watched Bledsoe play? It's about as hard to sack the man as it would have been for Rocky to catch that chicken if it was dead. The guy is a rock and his internal clock is about a second too slow.

 

[jefftheshark]

We specifically need a 1500 yard rusher, not a blitz blocker.

Totally agree:

1500 yards rushing = cake

Blitz pick-up = frosting

The Shark

 

[Russ Smith]

Now, how did you turn that into Henry is a great pickup for this team? Oh that's right, you weren't interested in debating why Buffalo got better, you wanted to argue because you don't think Henry is a good pick up.

This is where you respond with FO is total garbage because their rankings don't match your mental rankings and you restate all your opinions of Henry as if that invalidates what I've said about the Bills defense carrying the load for that team.

With all due respect Jerry I asked you to elaborate because I was talking about a specific thing, sacks allowed, and you responded with the defense got better and the special teams. Yes I understand that field position and turnover margin play a big role in winning games. I was talking about one specific aspect of that team, that when Henry was the starter they got sacked about 3.5 times as often as when he got benched.

I've never bashed FO I like the site, but they don't factor in blitz pickups into their numbers and if you follow the Cards for 3 years now we've been told one of the biggest reasons Shipp doesn't play more is blitz pickups.

Talk about a strawman, I make a statement, you attack it, I ask you to elaborate and you jump all over me for things I haven't said.

i fully realize Buffalo had a great defense, a weaker schedule(during the hot streak) and I can think of lots of reasons why that would cut sacks down, playing with a lead, in better field position so you can run more, things like that. But if you just want to vent and attack statements I haven't even made feel free.

 

[Pariah]

Anybody watched Bledsoe play? It's about as hard to sack the man as it would have been for Rocky to catch that chicken if it was dead. The guy is a rock and his internal clock is about a second too slow.

That is one odd analogy. I think it wins the "odd analogy of the day" award.

 

[CardinalChris]

That is one odd analogy. I think it wins the "odd analogy of the day" award.

Thank you thank you..... I'd like ot thank all the little people who helped me get here... Conan O'Brien, too many episodes of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Sienfeld.....

 

[Russ Smith]

Cut and pasted from the message board on the Bills official site. I hope I'm wrong but I've had a gut feeling on henry ever since his name started coming up and it just tells me he's going to be a disappointment.



Lett me tell ya something cardsfan, Travis will be a good back for ya until he has the stlightest bit of competition, then you will see the same player that we have seen this year. Instead of rizing to the ocasion and playing harder, he will poute on the sidelines make comments such as "This year is just a showcase for teams next year", "If im not the starter i dont want to be here.", "Lets get this strait, I didnt loose my job it was given away", "I definetly wont be here next year.", "Im a top five back in this league"(this said after failing to reach the 100 yard mark in five attempts). OH ya i almost forgot, he will slip on huge downs, run the wrong way on others, fumble the ball at key times, then say his job was given away.

I really used to like Travis Henry untill this year, he missed camps that everyone else was at to learn the new offense........let me say this again, he missed camps that EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON OUR TEAM WAS AT TO LEARN THE NEW OFFENSE!!!!! Then proceeded to make these coments, and then proceeded to play horrible. I wonder why he ran the wrong way against the pats when bledsoe got lit up and fumbled the ball, wait why were we in fourth down, oh ya cause he tripped over his own two feet on third down with a hole big enough for a truck to run through and pick up the first.

 

[abomb]

Cut and pasted from the message board on the Bills official site. I hope I'm wrong but I've had a gut feeling on henry ever since his name started coming up and it just tells me he's going to be a disappointment.



Lett me tell ya something cardsfan, Travis will be a good back for ya until he has the stlightest bit of competition, then you will see the same player that we have seen this year. Instead of rizing to the ocasion and playing harder, he will poute on the sidelines make comments such as "This year is just a showcase for teams next year", "If im not the starter i dont want to be here.", "Lets get this strait, I didnt loose my job it was given away", "I definetly wont be here next year.", "Im a top five back in this league"(this said after failing to reach the 100 yard mark in five attempts). OH ya i almost forgot, he will slip on huge downs, run the wrong way on others, fumble the ball at key times, then say his job was given away.

I really used to like Travis Henry untill this year, he missed camps that everyone else was at to learn the new offense........let me say this again, he missed camps that EVERY OTHER PLAYER ON OUR TEAM WAS AT TO LEARN THE NEW OFFENSE!!!!! Then proceeded to make these coments, and then proceeded to play horrible. I wonder why he ran the wrong way against the pats when bledsoe got lit up and fumbled the ball, wait why were we in fourth down, oh ya cause he tripped over his own two feet on third down with a hole big enough for a truck to run through and pick up the first.

Personally, I am not too concerned with these issues for one reason: Denny Green. I would be shocked if Henry missed any camps or workouts. Stuff doesnt fly here in AZ anymore.

A-Bomb