Hightower loses starting job or Whis loses credibility

[RugbyMuffin]

So now who do you bench?

Warner ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They both need to quit fumbling but i'm giving SF credit for those fumbles.

I don't.

Both times our RB's were fighting for a 1/4" at the most. That is a waste of energy, and an un-needed risk. Same goes for Q, and same goes for Warner when he force his throws into coverage.

You got two NFL pro atheletes on you, just put two hands on the ball and go down. Live to see another play. Nothing is more important than possession of the football. With an explosive offense like ours, it makes possession that much more crucial. You can make the big play if you don't have the ball in your hands.

You hear that Warner ? LIVE TO SEE ANOTHER PLAY !!!!

5 out of the 7 turnovers last night were from the Cardinals forcing the issue and not playing the game and taking the oppourtunities when they came.

Our running backs have to be more concerned about possession than an extra foot of distance, ESPECIALLY when in the shadow of our own endzone.

Our QB, and this is nothing new, has to be more careful with the ball when we are 30 yards away from scoring a TD, and cannot force passes when you can just throw it away.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't.

Both times our RB's were fighting for a 1/4" at the most. That is a waste of energy, and an un-needed risk. Same goes for Q, and same goes for Warner when he force his throws into coverage.

You got two NFL pro atheletes on you, just put two hands on the ball and go down. Live to see another play. Nothing is more important than possession of the football. With an explosive offense like ours, it makes possession that much more crucial. You can make the big play if you don't have the ball in your hands.

You hear that Warner ? LIVE TO SEE ANOTHER PLAY !!!!

5 out of the 7 turnovers last night were from the Cardinals forcing the issue and not playing the game and taking the oppourtunities when they came.

Our running backs have to be more concerned about possession than an extra foot of distance, ESPECIALLY when in the shadow of our own endzone.

Our QB, and this is nothing new, has to be more careful with the ball when we are 30 yards away from scoring a TD, and cannot force passes when you can just throw it away.

i can see your point but it's pretty hard to tell a RB not to run hard and get all he can out of a play. One of the things people like about TH is how hard he runs. Watch Wells's fumble againg if you get a chance. He didn't have the ball flying away from his body. The Niner safety just had about a 5 yard run at him and put a good hit right on the ball. Fumbles are caused sometimes. I think that was the case with Wells and ,to a lesser extent Hightower, but i think the defense made a good play their as well. Even LSH's fumble was a nice play by Willis.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Hightower has something on Whiz. Photos of whiz at a gay bar or whiz robbing a bank or something. No other player would be starting at this point.

 

[slanidrac16]

No way Whis, if he wants to remain credible, can let Hightower continue as starter. Edge was benched for less last year and Hightower's got fumbilitis in his head now.

Stop dicking around with the Wells isn't starter game-playing and just make the move. The time is now. If both of them are going to be fumble risks, there's no reason not to start the much more explosive Wells.

Put Hightower back in the situational/relief role where he belongs.

I will humblely disagree. Beanie fumbled. Howling fumbled. Boldin fumbled. Kurt threw 2 picks and one of those was absolutely terrible.
You can't bench the whole team.

Sometimes turnovers are a direct result of trying too hard for every inch. The things that stands out about Hightowers fumbles is they seem to happen early in the game. Probably a direct result of being overly geeked up.

Let's take a deep breath and get ready for next Sunday.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Hightower has something on Whiz. Photos of whiz at a gay bar or whiz robbing a bank or something. No other player would be starting at this point.

Who would be?

 

[Renz]

After Hightower's fumble, he didn't get another carry the rest of the game, so essentially Whiz did bench him.

Beanie > Hightower, I think we can all agree on that, so Wells should definitely start and get the majority of carries, but we need Hightower to contribute also.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

At this point, arguing in favor of either one is kind of hard to do. Of all the 7 turnovers we made, those two fumbles hurt the worst of all. We can't really count on either one in big games to take care of the ball.

Are we even sure they are different people? Notice how they are never in the game at the same time?

What's great in all this, is that Kurt forced 1, wait 2, maybe 3, that's it, 3 without much talk publically or locally here.

edit, it wasn't 4 because Bridges got the ball back after Kurt fumbled yet again.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

After Hightower's fumble, he didn't get another carry the rest of the game, so essentially Whiz did bench him.

Beanie > Hightower, I think we can all agree on that, so Wells should definitely start and get the majority of carries, but we need Hightower to contribute also.

Their roles need to essentially be reversed. Wells needs to start and be the 1st and 2nd down back. Since they like throwing the ball to Hightower so much, they should make him the 3rd down and backup to Wells.

 

[CaptTurbo]

After Hightower's fumble, he didn't get another carry the rest of the game, so essentially Whiz did bench him.

Beanie > Hightower, I think we can all agree on that, so Wells should definitely start and get the majority of carries, but we need Hightower to contribute also.

True but who STARTS next week. If both RB's fumble and TH is fumbling in the first quarter of every game its only fair to give Beanie his start. Its a bit harder to come in later cold when everyone else is warmed up.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

After Hightower's fumble, he didn't get another carry the rest of the game, so essentially Whiz did bench him.

Beanie > Hightower, I think we can all agree on that, so Wells should definitely start and get the majority of carries, but we need Hightower to contribute also.

Beanie has gotten the majority of the carries this season and produced less that THT!

 

[dylanbw]

I have always seen Well's talent. Problem is his overall YPC is less than Timmy. That's how you judge a RB. Plus timmy is far and away a better pass catcher and protector. So no he shouldn't be benched!

Agree that THT blitz pick ups and pass catching have been excellent.

Two questions:

1 - Why does he not block the DEs Larry Centers style on his way out into the flat? Is he instructed not too?

2 - No one on the Cards coaching staff can seriously think that THT is the superior runner to Wells when it comes to vision/speed/strength/instincts, can they?

 

[Big D]

I think one of the only good things that will come out of this game will be the scaling back of Hightower's touches in this offense. Hightower is a big effort/heart guy but he is a little short on talent compared to the other playmakers we have on offensive side of the ball. Time to scale back his role in the offense and get the ball in the hands of our more talented players more often.

 

[Duckjake]

Beanie has gotten the majority of the carries this season and produced less that THT!

Really? After 13 games Wells has exactly 15 more carries than Hightower. 136 to 121.

After last nights game they both are averaging 4.4 yards per carry. THT has 6 rushing TDs and Wells 5. Wells has a higher average per catch but THT has more catches and yards.

Looks about even to me.

Maybe they are the same guy. If so somebody made a terrific wig.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Really? After 13 games Wells has exactly 15 more carries than Hightower. 136 to 121.

After last nights game they both are averaging 4.4 yards per carry. THT has 6 rushing TDs and Wells 5. Wells has a higher average per catch but THT has more catches and yards.

Looks about even to me.

Maybe they are the same guy. If so somebody made a terrific wig.

Yep really! 15 more carries and going into the game last night THT had a SLIGHTLY better average.

My only point is all the these posts about how damn superior Wells is to THT are ridiculous! Using both RB's the way we have has been working period. NOTHING was working last night, and that probably would not have changed regardless of who started.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yep really! 15 more carries and going into the game last night THT had a SLIGHTLY better average.

My only point is all the these posts about how damn superior Wells is to THT are ridiculous! Using both RB's the way we has been working period. NOTHING was working last night, and that probably would not have changed regardless of who started.

Given the fact that Timmy only had 3 carries all night, I would say, YOU are correct sir!

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Given the fact that Timmy only had 3 carries all night, I would say, YOU are correct sir!

Obviously I am not speaking to one game.

 

[splitsecond]

Beanie managed 5 ypc, 103 yards from scrimmage against a team that was beating us senseless and completely dominating our I line all night. His touchdown was a spectacular second effort. His fumble was bad, but was at the point where the team was already beaten down and was an excellent move by the defender. I can almost guarantee Singletary was employing some crazy ass high risk go for the ball only drill all week in practice.

Bottom line is, Tim has fumbled and set the tone too many times. Beanie played his ass off last night, and he needs to start the next game.

 

[splitsecond]

according to Sando:

3. Tim Hightower, Cardinals RB. His first-quarter fumble deep in Cardinals territory set an ominous tone for Arizona. The team committed six more turnovers and couldn't sustain much of anything. And while fellow Cardinals running back Beanie Wells also lost an important fumble, 49ers safety Dashon Goldson made it happen with a perfect hit, pressing helmet to football in a manner that might have separated anyone from the football. With Hightower benched for stretches, Wells ran effectively against the 49ers' tough run defense, carrying 15 times for 79 yards and a touchdown. Wells looked like the team's best option on the ground.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/pos...ck-watch/how-i-see-it-nfc-west-stock-watch-14

 

[nashman]

Beanie is our best RB option period! TH is a good back but still needs to be a 3rd down back or the pass catching back although Beanie looks pretty damn good catching passes as well in the few he has got. Beanie needs to get the start against the Lions, TH should still get carries and passes but Beanie has to be this teams starter and get the bulk of the carries. He was after all doing a good job against a fired up SF defense that was shutting our offense down, he was our best offensive weapon period!

 

[CaptTurbo]

beanie has a different style he will punish you and wear you down.

 

[Duckjake]

Yep really! 15 more carries and going into the game last night THT had a SLIGHTLY better average.

My only point is all the these posts about how damn superior Wells is to THT are ridiculous! Using both RB's the way we have has been working period. NOTHING was working last night, and that probably would not have changed regardless of who started.

15 more carries and 13 of them came last night! You were making it sound like Wells had far more carries and significantly less production that Hightower. So I checked and....The two guys have basically the exact same production rushing this season.

 

[splitsecond]

15 more carries and 13 of them came last night! You were making it sound like Wells had far more carries and significantly less production that Hightower. So I checked and....The two guys have basically the exact same production rushing this season.

Well the other thing about wells is for a while he was getting a lot of plays with garbage blocking that had little chance to succeed anyhow. Hightowers ypc has been greatly helped recently with a few long runs as well.
.

 

[Shane]

Well the other thing about wells is for a while he was getting a lot of plays with garbage blocking that had little chance to succeed anyhow. Hightowers ypc has been greatly helped recently with a few long runs as well.
.

Oh yea the let's discount the long runs theory.

Also last I checked they both run behind the same exact line. Both getting really crappy blocking earlier in the season. Yet in the two games prior to niners game Wells couldn't get over 2 yards a pop.

The excuses around here are quite comical.

 

[Duckjake]

Oh yea the let's discount the long runs theory.

Also last I checked they both run behind the same exact line. Both getting really crappy blocking earlier in the season. Yet in the two games prior to niners game Wells couldn't get over 2 yards a pop.

The excuses around here are quite comical.

Don't need any excuses when 13 games into the season the two guys have exactly the same yards per carry.

And everyone should stop complaining because the Cards haven't even had ONE back with over 150 carries average 4.4 yards since Marcel Shipp in 2002.

One thing we must remember is that our oline cannot power run block worth a flip. So whoever gets the short yardage carries is going to have their ypc damaged.

I'd be willing to bet the Cards average feet per carry in short yardage situations is something around 1.4.

Another cool stat I'd like to see is yards before contact. ie yards the RB gets before somebody on the defense makes contact. I'd bet the Cards would be at around oh... -2.4.