Hornacek: Suns are "too soft"

[sunsfan88]

Hornacek: Suns ‘too soft’

Hornacek was asked about the ways of his old Utah coach, Jerry Sloan, which led him to how the Suns have been the antithesis of a Sloan team at times.

“I think sometimes we’re a little too soft,” Hornacek said. “We talk about fouls, getting through screens, just basically fighting every play. That’s straight from Jerry. That’s what I’d like to have these guys do. We’re getting better. I don’t think we’re at that point yet.”

Hornacek said the coaches are not always the ones who have to get on the team, especially with P.J. Tucker around.

“We come in at halftime sometimes, and we hear them in the locker room talking to each other, and it’s not always just talk,” Hornacek said. “They’re yelling at each other sometimes. So, as coaches, we start to come out of the coaches’ office and say, ‘Nah, let’s just stay here for a little bit longer.’ Let them talk to each other. That’s what the good teams do. P.J. leads it most of the time. They’re all afraid of him anyway.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...e-phoenix-suns-needed-boost.html?sf23735198=1

 

[AfroSuns]

They’re all afraid of him anyway.

Hahaha...not surprised. You know he is a tough captain. It's probably more of respect than being afraid.....It's probably both for the Rookies

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns are not only too soft but this carries over to the defense. How do the Suns let teams shoot 52.5 percent over the last nine games? This is beyond atrocious. I'm not even sure D'Antoni teams played such bad defense. See link to Paul Coro article dated 3-11-14 at azcentral for more.

The Suns just played four games against three of the NBA’s top eight teams, so a 1-3 mark is not unacceptable, but the issue is how the defense has disintegrated. The Suns have allowed 52.5 percent shooting over the past nine games. Seven consecutive opponents have shot at least 50 percent, making the Suns one of two teams to allow that in the past 14 NBA seasons.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-defense-badly-needed-help.html?sf23774618=1

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns are not only too soft but this carries over to the defense. How do the Suns let teams shoot 52.5 percent over the last nine games? This is beyond atrocious. I'm not even sure D'Antoni teams played such bad defense. See link to Paul Coro article dated 3-11-14 at azcentral for more.



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-defense-badly-needed-help.html?sf23774618=1

Me thinks you have a short memory when it comes to some D'Antoni stretches of defense.

Point taken though...it's been pretty bad as of late.

 

[Mainstreet]

Me thinks you have a short memory when it comes to some D'Antoni stretches of defense.

Point taken though...it's been pretty bad as of late.

But at least DA teams planned to outscore opponents. The current Suns are supposed to be emphasizing defense as well as offense. How does the Suns defense sink to such a low. It makes be question the Suns defensive strategy and their defensive coach. It can't all be put upon the players.

 

[AfroSuns]

Bledsoe prolonged absence
Frye playing like crap
Plumlee sucks now
Dragic is trying but he exerts so much energy on offense (never been a strong defender anyways)
Even Tucker seem to be taking lots more nights off on defense......


Playing defense requires more energy and it is looking like they are all trying so hard to contribute on offense at the cost of defense.
This is probably one that i think Bledsoe's return would have an immediate impact. Not because he is a defensive juggernaut, but more offensive weapons may just boost everyone's effort on the other end as well.

 

[unseenaz]

Hahaha...not surprised. You know he is a tough captain. It's probably more of respect than being afraid.....It's probably both for the Rookies

his fight the other night was probably trying to get the guys fired up. similar to when a baseball manager gets ejected purposely.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bledsoe prolonged absence
Frye playing like crap
Plumlee sucks now
Dragic is trying but he exerts so much energy on offense (never been a strong defender anyways)
Even Tucker seem to be taking lots more nights off on defense......


Playing defense requires more energy and it is looking like they are all trying so hard to contribute on offense at the cost of defense.
This is probably one that i think Bledsoe's return would have an immediate impact. Not because he is a defensive juggernaut, but more offensive weapons may just boost everyone's effort on the other end as well.

Teams should always be trying to play good defense even when their offense stagnates. No excuses.

I don't see Tucker slacking. Besides Tucker deserves a night off after the Clippers game.

 

[sunsfan88]

Tucker was pretty bad defensively when he was trying to guard Barnes in that game recently vs LAC here in PHX.

But yea he's usually more focused than others.

 

[Catlover]

I've seen Tucker take it easy defensively in several games this season. I just figured he was worn out mentally from taking the challenge so often while the rest of his teammates stargazed. All in all, I have no complaints about his effort. If everyone else steps up he'll more than carry his weight.

BTW, Hornacek's comment was "I think sometimes we're a little too soft". There's quite a bit of distance between his comment and the way it was presented. I think Jeff is trying to send a small message with his comment rather than slam them for being soft as the headline suggests.

 

[elindholm]

It's a vicious cycle. If you give up 110 points, you need at least 111 to win. To score 111 takes some serious offensive firepower. So if the Suns manage to score 110+ and win, it looks like the offensive players get the credit. Then you focus on what those players bring to the game, and give up 115 the next time. Now you need an even bigger offensive rescue, and if you get it, that person is even more celebrated. And so on.

A group of cast-offs and wanna-bes has almost no choice but to play for themselves rather than one another. Only a couple of current Suns figure to be here by the time the team is relevant again, so it's in their best interests to make the most of this opportunity while they can. That means looking good as individuals.

For all of their offensive prowess, the Suns are second-to-last in assists per game. {{ http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/miscellaneous-per-game/sort/avgAssists/order/false }} That's quite an amazing statistic. It means that their scoring comes from individual rather than from team play. If an offense-first team can't even play as a team on offense, there's no chance that they'll be playing as a team on defense.

 

[Catlover]

It's a vicious cycle. If you give up 110 points, you need at least 111 to win. To score 111 takes some serious offensive firepower. So if the Suns manage to score 110+ and win, it looks like the offensive players get the credit. Then you focus on what those players bring to the game, and give up 115 the next time. Now you need an even bigger offensive rescue, and if you get it, that person is even more celebrated. And so on.

A group of cast-offs and wanna-bes has almost no choice but to play for themselves rather than one another. Only a couple of current Suns figure to be here by the time the team is relevant again, so it's in their best interests to make the most of this opportunity while they can. That means looking good as individuals.

For all of their offensive prowess, the Suns are second-to-last in assists per game. {{ http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/miscellaneous-per-game/sort/avgAssists/order/false }} That's quite an amazing statistic. It means that their scoring comes from individual rather than from team play. If an offense-first team can't even play as a team on offense, there's no chance that they'll be playing as a team on defense.

You started off strong but I can't really agree with anything after your first paragraph. You say you can look at that one stat and tell our guys play selfishly? Did you realize that if we averaged just two more assists per game we'd be the number six rated team in this stat. Are two assists spread throughout an entire game really the difference between being great at teamwork and being horrible at it? Those two assists might even be offset by the fact we rely heavily on fast break points which (I believe) are assisted at a much lower rate than half-court points are.

What do you mean by relevant and which of these players are you saying are playing for themselves because they are not part of our future? I really don't see any of that happening (I saw a lot of it last season but not this season) although both Green and Tucker have a tendency to take questionable shots. Both of these guys are probably looking for a payday but they don't seem like selfish teammates to me. Green has trouble telling the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and I guess Tucker feels that he earned the right to put that ball back up after he worked his butt off to get the ball in the first place.

As for being relevant again, I think we already are. We're not in the upper echelon but we have some talent, we have extra draft picks and we have a coach that right now has established a very positive image throughout the league. With Sarver saying the right things (when he says anything at all) there's no reason to count us out of the free agent market. We may never win a championship but I see no reason to believe that we can't be competing for one in the very near future.

 

[elindholm]

Did you realize that if we averaged just two more assists per game we'd be the number six rated team in this stat.

I'd be more likely to realize it if it were true. What numbers are you looking at? The Suns are at 19.4, the median is 21.5, and the #6 team (Washington) is at 23.4.

Are two assists spread throughout an entire game really the difference between being great at teamwork and being horrible at it?

Remember that the Suns also play at a higher pace, so the difference is more than just two (or four, whatever) assists would indicate. If you could look at assist rate per offensive possession -- those stats must be out there somewhere -- the Suns would most likely look even worse.

We may never win a championship but I see no reason to believe that we can't be competing for one in the very near future.

I think that's ridiculous, but we'll just have to see -- there's no point debating it now.

 

[Neo]

For all of their offensive prowess, the Suns are second-to-last in assists per game. {{ http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/miscellaneous-per-game/sort/avgAssists/order/false }} That's quite an amazing statistic. It means that their scoring comes from individual rather than from team play. If an offense-first team can't even play as a team on offense, there's no chance that they'll be playing as a team on defense.

I think that is quite a logical leap you are taking. First of all, I don't a lack of assists means that a team is not playing team basketball. When a player drives to the basket and scores because he got a screen up high and the weakside shotblocker was screened off there is no assist, but it is certainly team ball. I think that the low assist numbers are also a reflection that Horny is taking advantage of this team's greatest offensive strength, which is Dragic and Bledsoe's ability to drive to the basket.

Second, even if the team does not play well as a team on offense (which I don't buy) I don't see how that means they will not play well together on defense. Are you saying that they are playing selfish basketball or just looking out for themselves? If so, I have not seen that.

 

[Catlover]

I'd be more likely to realize it if it were true. What numbers are you looking at? The Suns are at 19.4, the median is 21.5, and the #6 team (Washington) is at 23.4.

Someone needs to work on their math skills. Unfortunately that someone is me. Still, does a difference of four assists really prove a team is selfish?

I think that's ridiculous, but we'll just have to see -- there's no point debating it now.

Maybe "relevant" is another one of those words we should define before we begin arguing about them. I considered us irrelevant last year. This year, we are the talk of the league. We have two players that are arguably among the league's best. We have a cast of supporting characters that will draw interest if they come available (by trade or FA), we have salary cap room and we have a bunch of draft picks. What does your team have to possess to be considered relevant?

 

[elindholm]

Are you saying that they are playing selfish basketball or just looking out for themselves?

I'm not sure what the difference would be, so I guess I'll say yes, I see them doing both of those. But, part of the problem is that, as a team, they don't have good vision in the half court, so cuts without the ball aren't rewarded as much as they should be.

I think that the low assist numbers are also a reflection that Horny is taking advantage of this team's greatest offensive strength, which is Dragic and Bledsoe's ability to drive to the basket.

Blesdoe has barely played, so he can't have much impact on the season-long numbers. And while I agree that Dragic is good at getting to the basket, so are Tony Parker and Ginobili (yet the Spurs have high assist numbers), and so are James and Wade (yet the Heat do too), and so are Paul and Lillard (yet the Clippers and Blazers are also in the top ten). So that can't really explain it.

The Suns do a ton of one-on-one. Their ball movement isn't good, and they are only average at points in the paint. Their offense succeeds because they push the pace and shoot well -- they are in the top ten for overall, 3-point, and adjusted FG%, and that's without the benefit of an inside presence. But, generally speaking, the players on the roster are skilled at making plays only for themselves, at least compared to what you find on most other NBA teams.

 

[elindholm]

This year, we are the talk of the league.

I wouldn't go that far, but yes, they have been overachieving this year, and people have taken notice. That's a good thing.

We have two players that are arguably among the league's best.

This sentence really has no content. "Arguably"? Among the league's how many best? Among the league's 100 best? Sure, I'll go along with that.

We have a cast of supporting characters that will draw interest if they come available (by trade or FA), we have salary cap room and we have a bunch of draft picks. What does your team have to possess to be considered relevant?

Some realistic possibility of being, or evolving, into a deep playoff contender with either their current core or something not much different from their current core. And I don't think the Suns are anywhere close to that.

Put it this way: Max out the potential of this Suns roster by adding a second-tier free agent (the only top-tier ones are James and Anthony, and they aren't coming) and another role player or two in the draft. Now compare that team to the Nash-Stoudemire Suns. Who wins a playoff series between those two squads? Where would the current team have an advantage over the Nash-Stoudemire one? Is Dragic going to outplay Nash? Is Markieff Morris going to outplay Stoudemire? Seriously, how is that team going to beat the last incarnation of Phoenix run-and-fun? And that's a team that didn't even make the Finals.

 

[82CardsGrad]

There really can't be any debate about the team being "soft", can there?? I mean, when was the last time the Suns weren't soft?

Presently, guys like Frye, Plumlee, Len, Green, Ish, Keef and Marcus are all soft. PJ, Goran, and Bledsoe when he returns to 100%, are really the only true non-soft players on this team.

What is frustrating is that, with the exception of Frye, the rest all have the ability to move themselves out of the soft category. I have no doubt Hornacek believes the same and is doing his best, including making these public statements, to motivate these guys to become less soft!

 

[Errntknght]

elindholm:

For all of their offensive prowess, the Suns are second-to-last in assists per game. {{ http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/te...ts/order/false }} That's quite an amazing statistic. It means that their scoring comes from individual rather than from team play. If an offense-first team can't even play as a team on offense, there's no chance that they'll be playing as a team on defense.

I've noticed the low assists all year but it may not be quite as bad as it seems - they are middle of the road (18th) in assists vs opponents assists.

 

[Catlover]

I wouldn't go that far, but yes, they have been overachieving this year, and people have taken notice. That's a good thing.



This sentence really has no content. "Arguably"? Among the league's how many best? Among the league's 100 best? Sure, I'll go along with that.



Some realistic possibility of being, or evolving, into a deep playoff contender with either their current core or something not much different from their current core. And I don't think the Suns are anywhere close to that.

Put it this way: Max out the potential of this Suns roster by adding a second-tier free agent (the only top-tier ones are James and Anthony, and they aren't coming) and another role player or two in the draft. Now compare that team to the Nash-Stoudemire Suns. Who wins a playoff series between those two squads? Where would the current team have an advantage over the Nash-Stoudemire one? Is Dragic going to outplay Nash? Is Markieff Morris going to outplay Stoudemire? Seriously, how is that team going to beat the last incarnation of Phoenix run-and-fun? And that's a team that didn't even make the Finals.

Turn Len into a top 5 center and IMO, this team is better than Indiana. I don't know how you turn Len into a top 5 center but my point is a quality big man puts us right there with the best teams in the league. Turn Len into a top 20 center and we're a better team than Portland. But I'm talking about our roster as is. Lose Bledsoe to injury or free agency and we're a middle of the pack team.

I think Bledsoe was on the verge of becoming a top 5 player. He plays defense at a game changing level and his offense isn't far behind. I know that Eric hasn't won everyone over here but I think he's special in a way we've rarely seen in this league. He can dominate the game without scoring and yet it's almost impossible to keep him from getting to the hoop. I'm not convinced we keep him but I'm convinced in his ability (if not his health).

 

[elindholm]

Turn Len into a top 5 center and IMO, this team is better than Indiana.

Sure, and turn him into Hakeem Olajuwon, and the Suns might be able to hang with the Heat. I don't think there's any measurable possibility of Len becoming a top-5 center. To put it another way: Has any top-5 center in the history of the league ever, at any point in his development, looked as clueless as Len looks now?

Turn Len into a top 20 center and we're a better team than Portland.

Really? Where are the matchup advantages for the Suns in that scenario? Lopez is a top-20 center, so that position is a push. Where else?

I think Bledsoe was on the verge of becoming a top 5 player.

Which of the current top-10 or top-12 players in the league do you see him displacing? Let's put next season's top-10 as something like James, Durant, Harden, Howard, Paul, Griffin, Aldridge, ADavis, Love, George -- obviously the particulars are debatable, but somewhere around there. Which of those six do you see Bledsoe as becoming better than?

 

[SirStefan32]

I am in agreement with Eric regarding just about everything said in this thread, though I don't think the Suns are "selfish". I think they just don't have that many play makers on their roster.

Tucker is not Grant Hill, and Plumlee/Len are not Noah and Vlade Divac.
Suns are not selfish- they are just not a very good team.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I am in agreement with Eric regarding just about everything said in this thread, though I don't think the Suns are "selfish". I think they just don't have that many play makers on their roster.

Tucker is not Grant Hill, and Plumlee/Len are not Noah and Vlade Divac.
Suns are not selfish- they are just not a very good team.

Agree with all of that except the bold piece. The Suns are a good team. And, they are truly a decent center away from being a very good team.
Are they tough enough? Heck no... And that is a problem. Are they configured precisely how they should be? Probably not... Frye continues to show he is not a starter. But, you don't put up a season like they've had by being "not a very good team".

 

[Catlover]

Sure, and turn him into Hakeem Olajuwon, and the Suns might be able to hang with the Heat. I don't think there's any measurable possibility of Len becoming a top-5 center. To put it another way: Has any top-5 center in the history of the league ever, at any point in his development, looked as clueless as Len looks now?



Really? Where are the matchup advantages for the Suns in that scenario? Lopez is a top-20 center, so that position is a push. Where else?



Which of the current top-10 or top-12 players in the league do you see him displacing? Let's put next season's top-10 as something like James, Durant, Harden, Howard, Paul, Griffin, Aldridge, ADavis, Love, George -- obviously the particulars are debatable, but somewhere around there. Which of those six do you see Bledsoe as becoming better than?

I know this well probably end the conversation but I think Bledsoe's ceiling puts him in the argument for 3rd behind Durant and Lebron but above Aldridge, Love, George and Harden. I think Davis, Westbrook and Howard are also in that argument although Davis is the only one of that group with the potential to displace Durant. If Bledsoe was just an offensive weapon I'd still put his ceiling near that of Harden's. His defense though is what makes him special.

 

[SirStefan32]

I know this well probably end the conversation but I think Bledsoe's ceiling puts him in the argument for 3rd behind Durant and Lebron but above Aldridge, Love, George and Harden. I think Davis, Westbrook and Howard are also in that argument although Davis is the only one of that group with the potential to displace Durant. If Bledsoe was just an offensive weapon I'd still put his ceiling near that of Harden's. His defense though is what makes him special.

Yeah, that ends the conversation for me. I appreciate homerism as much as the next guy, but putting Bledsoe ahead of Harden, LMA, KLove, and George is beyond homerism. Undersized shooting guard who is not a good shooter, relying on athleticism and has had two surgeries on the same knee is not going to be the third best player in the NBA.