How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[Russ Smith]

Remember when everyone thought Shaka would turn them into a power?

Allen has a ton of potential. He's like Hakim Warrick with actual game. He should look at Rabb as an example not to return. If you're lottery bound = go

I actually think they will be somewhat like UCLA next year where they make a big improvement. Not that Matt Coleman will be Lonzo Ball but the main issue they have now is no PG, with a young team like that a guy getting the ball to the right guys at the right times is huge and they don't have that. Lots of their issues are related to that IMO even the defense, if you take bad shots with bad floor balance your defense will suck too. If Coleman is for real next year I wouldn't be surprised to see them double their win total.

 

[DWKB]

I actually think they will be somewhat like UCLA next year where they make a big improvement. Not that Matt Coleman will be Lonzo Ball but the main issue they have now is no PG, with a young team like that a guy getting the ball to the right guys at the right times is huge and they don't have that. Lots of their issues are related to that IMO even the defense, if you take bad shots with bad floor balance your defense will suck too. If Coleman is for real next year I wouldn't be surprised to see them double their win total.

...and a big reason why he might stick it out one more year if he doesn't like his draft prospects.

 

[Russ Smith]

Remember when everyone thought Shaka would turn them into a power?

Allen has a ton of potential. He's like Hakim Warrick with actual game. He should look at Rabb as an example not to return. If you're lottery bound = go

Forgot to add from what I gather Rabb actually hasn't hurt his draft status, DE still has him 14th, I think I read that Ford has him in the lottery still but I don't subscribe to ESPN Insider so not sure on that.

A reporter I know who talks to scouts off and on has said that he's hearing NBA scouts fully get that Rabb is getting doubled every time he touches the ball and they don't hold that against him. Apparently NBA guys love his defensive rebounding, they think lots of college 4's are only interested in offensive rebounding. They see that as a good sign he's not afraid to mix it up so as he gets older and stronger that will come into play.

He did exactly what he intended to do, stay 2 years until his younger brother graduated HS and he could use his NBA money to help the family out. He recently stated he's very likely playing his last games at Haas. Obviously if he was a first rounder last year he lost out on a year of salary but he knew what he was doing.

 

[hcsilla]

Last year I didn't really see what made Rabb an NBA prospect. He was tall and fundamentally OK in the paint and that was it.

Now that he has improved his jumper and passing and gets to the FT-line more often, he looks like a 1st round pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not running away in fear of his dad but there is a concern here. Much of the talk right after the latest CBA was approved centered around what agents and players will do to shift some power back their way. It's clear that their best chance to control their future has to come before they sign that first deal.

It's been suggested by many close to the situation that we will see an increase in players and agents controlling the pre-draft process in such a way as to force star players to a team of their choosing. With Ball's dad now having declared, not once but multiple times, that Lonzo will be a Laker, I think that becomes a real concern. And enough of a concern to tip me elsewhere unless we're thinking our choice is on the level of the Magic Johnson vs Sidney Moncrief decision.

No. You don't EVER let the inmates run the asylum. That's the WORST thing this franchise can do.

 

[slinslin]

keep sleeping on the guy

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17/7/2/1/1 45% 39% 87%

 

[elindholm]

3. Magic Johnson is the greatest point guard of all time. That doesn't necessarily make his opinions correct, but it adds a lot more credibility than any of us on this message board have.

It would, maybe, if we knew what Magic's opinion is. But he's like Trump, in that he'll say whatever he thinks is going to attract attention, enhance his brand, or win an argument. So much of what he says is so patently absurd that even he can't believe it -- unless he's mentally ill, which is possible -- and so there's no way to assign credibility to any statement of his, because it's impossible to disentangle all of his possible motivations for making it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

While I hope magic is a train wreck he was very successful in business and has remained around the game. You can argue his biz partners and advisors are the reason for his success in biz but then you have to admit he is wise enough to know his limitations and a good enough judge of character to know who to hire and to whom to listen. If those traits carryover to the Lakers he may be very successful.

 

[slinslin]

Fultz 50.2% 2pt% 41.3% 3pt 64.9%FT 53.5%eFG
Smith 52% 2pt% 37.4% 3pt 71%FT 53.5%eFG
Ball 71% 2pt% 43% 3pt 68%FT 67.3%eFG

I understand the issue with release point and how that could affect Ball's transition to the pros. Sometimes stats are overrated.

To me, Fultz and Ball both pass the eye test with flying colors. I still need to see a little bit more from Smith.

Ball rarely if ever shoots of the dribble, he does not shoot 2pters except for layups. Those shooting stats are incrediby misleading for Ball.

 

[slinslin]

I agree with you. Ball's game is not as the primary scorer, so that release point doesn't matter so much. He just has to be able to hit that shot when he is open, and he does at an astounding rate. He will be like Steve Nash in that his passing will open up his shooting.

More and more I like Ball over Fultz but I hate to admit it.

It does matter when he is tightly guarded which is why I think he is taking a lot of 3pters from way behind the college 3pt line because the defenders give him more space for his shot.

Steve Nash was a master of the pick and roll and dribbling through the paint without giving up his dribble as well as shooting off the dribble. Ball has shown NONE of that.

The Jason Kidd comparisons for Ball are as close as you can get. He will most likely have a great impact on a team running many fast breaks but struggle in half court settings.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

It would, maybe, if we knew what Magic's opinion is. But he's like Trump, in that he'll say whatever he thinks is going to attract attention, enhance his brand, or win an argument. So much of what he says is so patently absurd that even he can't believe it -- unless he's mentally ill, which is possible -- and so there's no way to assign credibility to any statement of his, because it's impossible to disentangle all of his possible motivations for making it.

I can't engage in this conversation because, even though your argument is not entirely unreasonable, you just compared my childhood hero to Donald Trump.

Is this the point where I challenge you to a duel?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Ball rarely if ever shoots of the dribble, he does not shoot 2pters except for layups. Those shooting stats are incrediby misleading for Ball.

I was just using those stats to make the point that stats don't tell the whole story. (re: Fultz vs. Smith in shooting)

 

[elindholm]

I can't engage in this conversation because, even though your argument is not entirely unreasonable, you just compared my childhood hero to Donald Trump.

Is this the point where I challenge you to a duel?

Hey, don't feel bad, I used to love Bill Cosby.

Magic Johnson was a great basketball player, and he deserves eternal credit for that. As a talking head, however, he's one of the most insufferable figures in the entire entertainment world.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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12:38 PM - 23 Feb 2017
10 replies40 retweets64 likes

 

[Russ Smith]

Ball rarely if ever shoots of the dribble, he does not shoot 2pters except for layups. Those shooting stats are incrediby misleading for Ball.

You realize that's by design right? his dad has been saying that for years that's the entire philosophy of offense at Chino hills, most shots should be 3's or layups.

I agree at the NBA level he'll need a floater but surprise, he does have one he's been making them off and on for weeks now. The stats are what he's actually done.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A lot of great college basketball games today involving key players in this draft. I'm watching NC State right now, still not in love with Dennis Smith JR.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

keep sleeping on the guy

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17/7/2/1/1 45% 39% 87%

Not looking too good today. Bad shooting performance, but he is also taking a lot of questionable shots. He some what reminds me of Carmelo.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No. You don't EVER let the inmates run the asylum. That's the WORST thing this franchise can do.

I don't know how that applies here but it's foolish to run headfirst into a wall just because the wall shouldn't be there. His dad made the comment again today, stated emphatically that his son will ONLY play for the Lakers. You want to bet he doesn't already have a plan and probably an agent to make it work already? Better to trade that pick for a fortune than sign up for that nightmare IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I don't know how that applies here but it's foolish to run headfirst into a wall just because the wall shouldn't be there. His dad made the comment again today, stated emphatically that his son will ONLY play for the Lakers. You want to bet he doesn't already have a plan and probably an agent to make it work already? Better to trade that pick for a fortune than sign up for that nightmare IMO.

His dad is probably just posturing and trying to get any team ahead of LA in the draft to pass. Doesn't mean there is going to be any drama if someone takes him ahead of the Lakers. All of this said there is far from any sort of guarantee that LA even takes him if he is on the board. Ultimately though we keep hearing stuff like this from his dad, but haven't heard a peep from Lonzo on these subjects. Maybe he is like a lot of kids that have outspoken parents in that he doesn't agree with much his dad says.

 

[AzStevenCal]

His dad is probably just posturing and trying to get any team ahead of LA in the draft to pass. Doesn't mean there is going to be any drama if someone takes him ahead of the Lakers. All of this said there is far from any sort of guarantee that LA even takes him if he is on the board. Ultimately though we keep hearing stuff like this from his dad, but haven't heard a peep from Lonzo on these subjects. Maybe he is like a lot of kids that have outspoken parents in that he doesn't agree with much his dad says.

Yeah, that's our best hope if our pick comes into play.

But I'm serious about the rumors/speculation that agents and players will now be trying to manipulate the draft far more than ever. They believe it's their only real chance to control the future for the expected superstars. Agents (some agents) don't want another Kevin Durant locked up in OKC for almost a decade and the new CBA only increases the leverage for the team that owns that budding superstar.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm watching the Arizona vs UCLA game tonight.

Allonzo Trier would be a very good pick-up in the 2nd round for the Suns if he is there. I like his game.

Ball is a great passer, makes things happen but I do not like the release on his shot shot. If he goes to the Lakers maybe he saves the Suns a headache.

Markkanen seems like more of a finesse big man at this stage of his career. IMO, he will need time to develop. I'm not sure if the Suns are willing to wait with Chriss and Bender on the roster.

The caveat. I do not watch college basketball much.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm watching the Arizona vs UCLA game tonight.

Allonzo Trier would be a very good pick-up in the 2nd round for the Suns if he is there. I like his game.

Ball is a great passer, makes things happen but I do not like the release on his shot shot. If he goes to the Lakers maybe he saves the Suns a headache.

Markkanen seems like more of a finesse big man at this stage of his career. IMO, he will need time to develop. I'm not sure if the Suns are willing to wait with Chriss and Bender on the roster.

The caveat. I do not watch college basketball much.

I just don't get this as any sort of legitimate reason to pass on a player. I could understand if his FT% and 3P% were both horrible, along with an unorthodox release, that could be worrisome. Simply not wanting a player because you don't like the look of his shot, even though it works, seems a little silly to me.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't get this as any sort of legitimate reason to pass on a player. I could understand if his FT% and 3P% were both horrible, along with an unorthodox release, that could be worrisome. Simply not wanting a player because you don't like the look of his shot, even though it works, seems a little silly to me.

I was just pointing out that I do not like Ball as a shooter right now. Jason Kidd was not a good shooter either but he developed a respectable three point shot later in his career.

I didn't say I would pass on Ball but from reports, the father is really pushing for him to go to the Lakers. If the Suns got the #1 pick in the draft, I would consider swapping picks with the Lakers and getting another asset or two. I don't want a headache on the Suns.

Also I do not see him as the end all for the Suns. There are a number of quality players in this draft.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I was just pointing out that I do not like Ball as a shooter right now. Jason Kidd was not a good shooter either but he developed a respectable three point shot later in his career.

I didn't say I would pass on Ball but from reports, the father is really pushing for him to go to the Lakers. If the Suns got the #1 pick in the draft, I would consider swapping picks with the Lakers and getting another asset or two.

I don't see him as the end all for the Suns. There are a number of quality players in this draft.

This assumes that the Lakers would want Ball over Fultz and I'm not so sure they would. If we get the number one pick I would hope we use it on Fultz, but if Fultz is off the board when we draft than I would be all for Ball if he is still around.

 

[Mainstreet]

This assumes that the Lakers would want Ball over Fultz and I'm not so sure they would. If we get the number one pick I would hope we use it on Fultz, but if Fultz is off the board when we draft than I would be all for Ball if he is still around.

This is fine. It's good there are options in this draft.