How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[3rdside]

Us not winning isn't by any means squarely on the shoulders of Bledsoe. Sure he is part of it, but I would guess it is more that we are losing in spite of what he is doing.

Any team starts with a PG - look at Dragic, for example, who's winning more with far less.

Marbury's another example of being like Bledsoe....all the stats in the world but don't want anything to do with him.

Of course, it's not a 1:1 correlation of Bledsoe Good : Team Good but it's mightily uncanny what's happening with Miami.

 

[slinslin]

Dragic is winning nothing. He has been a career loser and Miamis resurgance is largely down to Waiters spectacular play.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Any team starts with a PG - look at Dragic, for example, who's winning more with far less.

Marbury's another example of being like Bledsoe....all the stats in the world but don't want anything to do with him.

Of course, it's not a 1:1 correlation of Bledsoe Good : Team Good but it's mightily uncanny what's happening with Miami.

Miami is far better on defense and Dragic isn't the reason for that. The reason for that is players like Whiteside and Winslow.

 

[slinslin]

Any team starts with a PG - look at Dragic, for example, who's winning more with far less.

Marbury's another example of being like Bledsoe....all the stats in the world but don't want anything to do with him.

Of course, it's not a 1:1 correlation of Bledsoe Good : Team Good but it's mightily uncanny what's happening with Miami.

The notion that Dragic has less talent around him than Bledsoe is ridiculous when Dragic has argueably been their 3rd best player in their hot streak and they still have a losing record.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Any team starts with a PG - look at Dragic, for example, who's winning more with far less.

Marbury's another example of being like Bledsoe....all the stats in the world but don't want anything to do with him.

Of course, it's not a 1:1 correlation of Bledsoe Good : Team Good but it's mightily uncanny what's happening with Miami.

Also Bledsoe edges out Dragic on almost all advanced metrics except for the defensive metrics that have a lot to do with the other 4 players on the court.

 

[3rdside]

Dragic is winning nothing. He has been a career loser and Miamis resurgance is largely down to Waiters spectacular play.

Does losing mean leading his team to a 13 game win streak, 16 out of 18 and dragging a talentless team to a very unlikely playoff appearance?

 

[3rdside]

Also Bledsoe edges out Dragic on almost all advanced metrics except for the defensive metrics that have a lot to do with the other 4 players on the court.

What part of they're winning and we're losing doesn't make sense?

 

[GatorAZ]

The Heat having a winning record this season when Dragic plays. Since coming back from injury in lateDecember his efficiency numbers are absurd. They're 17-7 over that span of games.

That said I don't know what this has to do with Eric Bledsoe.

 

[3rdside]

The notion that Dragic has less talent around him than Bledsoe is ridiculous when Dragic has argueably been their 3rd best player in their hot streak and they still have a losing record.

You have very odd concept of reality, that's all I can really say.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

What part of they're winning and we're losing doesn't make sense?

None of it. Because it just isn't that simple...

 

[3rdside]

It's why I said it was uncanny but between this season and 2013-14 it's....mightily uncanny.


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[CardsSunsDbacks]

It's why I said it was uncanny but between this season and 2013-14 it's....mightily uncanny.


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And a big part of that 13-14 season record was the play of Bledsoe. As a matter of fact the team was much better in the games that Bledsoe was healthy. Dragic just has a better situation in Miami where he plays with some good defensive talent and has been able to develop some cohesion with his team.

 

[3rdside]

And a big part of that 13-14 season record was the play of Bledsoe. As a matter of fact the team was much better in the games that Bledsoe was healthy. Dragic just has a better situation in Miami where he plays with some good defensive talent and has been able to develop some cohesion with his team.

Yes and a big part of Miami this season is Dion Waiters but what's the common link?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes and a big part of Miami this season is Dion Waiters but what's the common link?

Waiters may be playing a bigger part in that record than you think. Waiters missed 20 games this year and Miami is 5-15 in those games. Not really sure what brought this discussion about anyways considering Miami isn't even a winning team right now, sure they are hot at the moment, but that hot streak has only gotten them closer to .500 and not over it.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yes and a big part of Miami this season is Dion Waiters but what's the common link?

The thing you have to look at is why teams are winning. The Suns offense is actually a little more efficient than Miami's and Dragic is primarily an offensive player. The big difference between the 2 teams is defense where Miami is decent and the Suns are atrocious.

 

[3rdside]

Im not disagreeing about waiters and I can repeat what we already know about Dragic, that when Bledsoe was out in 13-14 the suns only played .500 ball, but the point is both Bledsoe and waiters are complimenting Dragic and it's not the other way round. Bledsoe wasn't 3rd team all NBA and waiters isn't better than Dragic.

And we got here because I started by saying I don't want Bledsoe to be the point guard of this team because he doesn't generates wins, only stats. I like guards that generate fast, team basketball that lead to wins and the obvious reference point, seeing as it ties into this team, is Dragic.






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[3rdside]

In case it isn't obvious slinslin doesn't give Dragic any credit for '13-'14 - and he's not the only one - but Miami is proving him very wrong.




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[CardsSunsDbacks]

Im not disagreeing about waiters and I can repeat what we already know about Dragic, that when Bledsoe was out in 13-14 the suns only played .500 ball, but the point is both Bledsoe and waiters are complimenting Dragic and it's not the other way round. Bledsoe wasn't 3rd team all NBA and waiters isn't better than Dragic.

And we got here because I started by saying I don't want Bledsoe to be the point guard of this team because he doesn't generates wins, only stats. I like guards that generate fast, team basketball that lead to wins and the obvious reference point, seeing as it ties into this team, is Dragic.






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Except like I said the Suns are actually a more efficient offense. The difference is Miami's defense is better and that isn't being driven by Dragic.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In case it isn't obvious slinslin doesn't give Dragic any credit for '13-'14 - and he's not the only one - but Miami is proving him very wrong.




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Well that would certainly be silly. As Dragic was absolutely a huge part of that record. However I don't know if I can agree that Dragic was the better player that year. Sure he was a slightly better offensive player, but Bled has always been better on defense. Looking at both their numbers when they were playing together earlier in the year they were both averaging about 18/6 with similar efficiency.

 

[slinslin]

Waiters is putting up more assists than dragic in the last month.

 

[3rdside]

Well that would certainly be silly. As Dragic was absolutely a huge part of that record. However I don't know if I can agree that Dragic was the better player that year. Sure he was a slightly better offensive player, but Bled has always been better on defense. Looking at both their numbers when they were playing together earlier in the year they were both averaging about 18/6 with similar efficiency.

Yet Dragic can win in Miami without Bledsoe but not vice versa.

 

[AzStevenCal]

In case it isn't obvious slinslin doesn't give Dragic any credit for '13-'14 - and he's not the only one - but Miami is proving him very wrong.




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Actually I've seen a lot more of the "it was all Dragic" crowd than the reverse. The truth is they each benefitted by the presence of the other.

We played very well when both guards were healthy, .500 during the stretch without Eric and can only guess what would have happened if Bledsoe had to face half a season alone like Goran did. My guess, he would not have fared well. Goran ran the two man game with Frye to perfection, something Bledsoe was not yet capable of doing.

But I don't know how anyone could watch both of those guards today and say Dragic is great and Bledsoe is unnecessary. They are both playing very well.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yet Dragic can win in Miami without Bledsoe but not vice versa.

That is flawed logic because the Suns roster has been a mess since the roster was blown up. This current team can't stop anyone from scoring and that is why they are losing. Feel free to swap out Dragic with Bledsoe at the start of this year and we would still be a terrible team. Dragic isn't even the best player on Miami as that would go to Whiteside, Bledsoe is easily the best player on this Suns team, but we don't have the defensive pieces that Miami has.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yet Dragic can win in Miami without Bledsoe but not vice versa.

Yes, we get it. Your point, best I can tell, is that it's a team game when your guy loses and he's a great player when his team wins.

 

[3rdside]

Actually I've seen a lot more of the "it was all Dragic" crowd than the reverse. The truth is they each benefitted by the presence of the other.

We played very well when both guards were healthy, .500 during the stretch without Eric and can only guess what would have happened if Bledsoe had to face half a season alone like Goran did. My guess, he would not have fared well. Goran ran the two man game with Frye to perfection, something Bledsoe was not yet capable of doing.

But I don't know how anyone could watch both of those guards today and say Dragic is great and Bledsoe is unnecessary. They are both playing very well.

More people are on Dragic's side but I've been battling slinslin and Phrazbit for years now and as they're two of the more vocal guys on here (at least from time to time) that's who I'm talking about.

And I agree you can't look at Dragic and Bledsoe in isolation and determine a difference but you can look at the w/l column for Miami this year and Phoenix in '13-'14 and draw a probable conclusion.

Some players generate synergistic results, others don't - Dragic seems to be the former, Bledsoe the latter - which is why I give mcD such a hard time because he doesn't get this, or at least didn't...Chemistry and synergy are so important but so fleeting; if you have it, work out why and build on it.

McD didn't know what it was, but stuck it in a blender and put it on high anyway.