How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[Russ Smith]

Arguments for Ball? He is two inches taller, looks like a better defender, better passer and facilitator, more cerebral.

For me it comes down to Lonzo proved in college he's a winner, he does what it takes to help his team win games. He made his teammates better.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

For me it comes down to Lonzo proved in college he's a winner, he does what it takes to help his team win games. He made his teammates better.

He had 2 things that Fultz didn't. He had good teammates around him and he had a coach that put the players in a position to succeed.

 

[Russ Smith]

He had 2 things that Fultz didn't. He had good teammates around him and he had a coach that put the players in a position to succeed.

Sure but those good teammates were 15-17 the year before. Leaf was great but it's the same Leaf everyone said was NOT a one and done before he arrived at UCLA, the same Leaf that Sean Miller was clearly mocking when he was talking up Markkanen and bashing Leaf before either had ever played in college. Part of why Leaf was better than expected is he played with Lonzo and got the ball where he could do damage.

Same with Anigbogu, before the season many people had never heard of him. He played 13 MPG but he's big and athletic and those lob dunks from Lonzo caught the attention of pro scouts.

I don't think Alford deserved the banners and nonsense like that but I don't think he's a great coach either, he was just smart enough to realize how good Lonzo was, and let him do his thing. That's coaching too but it's Lonzo that made it work.

UCLA had more talent this year, 16 wins more talent than last year I don't think so, they just played better because of Lonzo Ball IMO.

Great players should be able to make an impact on wins and losses. UCLA actually beat UW worse with Fultz than without him, and that game was at UW.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I love this debate, and I don't think it was a slam dunk either way.

 

[Russ Smith]

DeAaron Fox officially declares for draft will hire agent.

 

[Mainstreet]

DeAaron Fox officially declares for draft will hire agent.

I like him a lot. He can play PG and score.

 

[Russ Smith]

I like him a lot. He can play PG and score.

Terrific defender too.

 

[Mainstreet]

Terrific defender too.

Could be as good as, Fultz or Ball ?

I've also taken a liking to Justin Jackson, 6' 8" SF.

I'm sure the Suns are looking at BPA but D. Fox and Justin Jackson are looking good should the Suns trade down. I don't think the Suns lose much if anything with these two players.

 

[sunsfan88]

I like him a lot. He can play PG and score.

Just wish he could shoot.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just wish he could shoot.

His shot looks good to me except he needs to develop a 3 point shot. I do not see anything that can't be fixed.

 

[Russ Smith]

His shot looks good to me except he needs to develop a 3 point shot. I do not see anything that can't be fixed.

Yeah it's the lack of range. He has the floater, he can finish inside, his midrange got better. his mechanics look ok but he seems to have very little spin on his shot which means it has to go right in because he's not going to get the soft bounces.

He played Lonzo tough both times they played in college, frankly he was the only kid all year who really bothered Lonzo on defense

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah it's the lack of range. He has the floater, he can finish inside, his midrange got better. his mechanics look ok but he seems to have very little spin on his shot which means it has to go right in because he's not going to get the soft bounces.

He played Lonzo tough both times they played in college, frankly he was the only kid all year who really bothered Lonzo on defense

Justin Jackson was nailing the 3 point shot against the Ducks going 4-9. He is shooting .382 from 3 point range for the season. That floater is really nice.

I have been watching North Carolina in the NCAA playoffs and he always seems to catch my eye even before I was looking for him.

JMHO, some team will draft a good player in Jackson.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Justin Jackson struggles at next level due to lack of athleticism. His ceiling is Matt Barnes.

 

[GatorAZ]

Don't Justin Jackson's athleticism being a problem but he hasn't added strength in 3 years. That's a concern.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Justin Jackson struggles at next level due to lack of athleticism. His ceiling is Matt Barnes.

Don't Justin Jackson's athleticism being a problem but he hasn't added strength in 3 years. That's a concern.

I'm not sure there is much difference between Tatum and Justin Jackson athletically. I think Jackson will surprise once he gets to the NBA. In regard to the strength issue, I think GatorHater knows more about it than I do.

Anyway, he is a player I have started to like along with Fox in the college playoffs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure there is much difference between Tatum and Justin Jackson athletically. I think Jackson will surprise once he gets to the NBA. In regard to the strength issue, I think GatorHater knows more about it than I do.

Anyway, he is a player I have started to like along with Fox in the college playoffs.

If he and Tatum have similar athletic traits and he was ACC player of the year why isn't he being considered a top pick? Because his athleticism stinks. All his runners and flip shots are by necessity because he can neither blow by, nor jump over, an opponent. And he's a streaky shooter at best. He's a journeyman.

Have been growing in admiration of Fox but can't pick him over fultz or ball.

 

[Hoop Head]

I really hope the Suns get #2 because I think Fultz will go #1, unless the Lakers pick there because I don't see them passing on Ball. Ball is the player that I think elevates the Suns the most although Fultz may have the better career in terms of stats. I'm not entirely sure Ball is better than Jackson but I'd much rather be picking between those 2 than Fultz and Ball or Fultz and Jackson because I think you'd almost have to take Fultz as the BPA but he's not the best fit for our team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I really hope the Suns get #2 because I think Fultz will go #1, unless the Lakers pick there because I don't see them passing on Ball. Ball is the player that I think elevates the Suns the most although Fultz may have the better career in terms of stats. I'm not entirely sure Ball is better than Jackson but I'd much rather be picking between those 2 than Fultz and Ball or Fultz and Jackson because I think you'd almost have to take Fultz as the BPA but he's not the best fit for our team.

I do not understand this line of thinking. No team should EVER want less choice. If you want Ball you want the #1 pick to ensure you get him. If you want Jackson you want the #1 pick to ensure you get him. You never want the second pick and then hope the guy you think everyone thinks is #1 will be taken. That's just hairbrained.

 

[Mainstreet]

If he and Tatum have similar athletic traits and he was ACC player of the year why isn't he being considered a top pick? Because his athleticism stinks. All his runners and flip shots are by necessity because he can neither blow by, nor jump over, an opponent. And he's a streaky shooter at best. He's a journeyman.

Have been growing in admiration of Fox but can't pick him over fultz or ball.

Justin Jackson showed his inability to drive the ball inside tonight against Gonzaga. Also he could not hit a 3 point shot for his life. I think his outside shot might have been off tonight but his inability to drive the ball inside lowered his stock in my eyes. Jackson does shoot nice around the basket and he plays good defense.

What an ugly ball game but North Carolina beats Gonzaga tonight for the national championship.

I still like Fox if the Suns should drop slightly in the draft. However, I'm all about drafting the best player available whoever that might be.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do not understand this line of thinking. No team should EVER want less choice. If you want Ball you want the #1 pick to ensure you get him. If you want Jackson you want the #1 pick to ensure you get him. You never want the second pick and then hope the guy you think everyone thinks is #1 will be taken. That's just hairbrained.

I'm all for the most options. Drafting #1 is always the best.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Sure but those good teammates were 15-17 the year before. Leaf was great but it's the same Leaf everyone said was NOT a one and done before he arrived at UCLA, the same Leaf that Sean Miller was clearly mocking when he was talking up Markkanen and bashing Leaf before either had ever played in college. Part of why Leaf was better than expected is he played with Lonzo and got the ball where he could do damage.

Same with Anigbogu, before the season many people had never heard of him. He played 13 MPG but he's big and athletic and those lob dunks from Lonzo caught the attention of pro scouts.

I don't think Alford deserved the banners and nonsense like that but I don't think he's a great coach either, he was just smart enough to realize how good Lonzo was, and let him do his thing. That's coaching too but it's Lonzo that made it work.

UCLA had more talent this year, 16 wins more talent than last year I don't think so, they just played better because of Lonzo Ball IMO.

Great players should be able to make an impact on wins and losses. UCLA actually beat UW worse with Fultz than without him, and that game was at UW.

I have no doubt that Lonzo played a good part in their improvement. That being said it is debatable how much of that credit should go directly to Lonzo. For instance both Leaf and Anigbogu were freshman as well and an argument could be made that Leaf was the best all around player on that team.

By bringing in a starting point guard that also moved Alford to the SG role where his game is much more suited to be successful. I believe it to be the perfect storm of personnel and having a coach that allowed them to play in a way that best fit his personnel. That UCLA team was loaded with good shooters (Leaf, Alford, Welsh, Holiday and even Hamilton is a pretty good shooter) who all played at least 25 minutes per game. Ball always had 3-4 good shooters on the floor with him at all times. He quite simply will not have that in the NBA. What you were seeing is a very willing passer with a bunch of talented shooters/scorers around him and thus he racked up a lot of assists (Lonzo is a very good passer, but his assist numbers are a little inflated IMO).

 

[Errntknght]

I'm all for the most options. Drafting #1 is always the best.

That's true if the guy doing the picking is also doing the wishing. Suppose you were the GM and the guy you unquestionably want is due to be drafted around 20 - someone, say, very like Rudy Gobert. If you used the first overall pick to take him you know the owner would be royally pissed for not taking one of the two consensus best players. I bet you'd wish you were picking fifth or so, because the owner wouldn't fire you for that.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

That's true if the guy doing the picking is also doing the wishing. Suppose you were the GM and the guy you unquestionably want is due to be drafted around 20 - someone, say, very like Rudy Gobert. If you used the first overall pick to take him you know the owner would be royally pissed for not taking one of the two consensus best players. I bet you'd wish you were picking fifth or so, because the owner wouldn't fire you for that.

If the player you really want is predicted to go around 20 than just trade a player or future assets to move up to that spot. Just look at what the Suns were able to make happen last year. Trades like that can happen if your GM knows what he is doing.

 

[slinslin]

I think Justin Jackson struggles at next level due to lack of athleticism. His ceiling is Matt Barnes.

Matt Barnes was an elite athlete, not sure I buy that comparison at all.

Rodney Hood is not a good athlete either, does fine.

 

[Mainstreet]

That's true if the guy doing the picking is also doing the wishing. Suppose you were the GM and the guy you unquestionably want is due to be drafted around 20 - someone, say, very like Rudy Gobert. If you used the first overall pick to take him you know the owner would be royally pissed for not taking one of the two consensus best players. I bet you'd wish you were picking fifth or so, because the owner wouldn't fire you for that.

I probably did a poor job of explaining it there. What I was trying to say, one always wants the first pick in the draft because it gives the team holding the pick options for a trade down. Of course, the team holding the first pick never ones to trade down beyond the pool of players they like. I like the idea of getting additional assets plus a player they want.

I'm not sure if there is a clear #1 pick in the draft.