How long until the Suns are back in the playoffs?

[Mainstreet]

[/COLOR][/COLOR]

That is the part I am struggling with. What are the chances the Suns can get players in return that are favorable in terms of gauranteed money, contract length or even players they would want to keep on the roster all from one team?

It's the job of Babby and Blanks to know what is out there. There could some good options or perhaps none that would help the Suns. The Suns sorely miss a good basketball mind that can put these things together.

 

[elindholm]

That is the part I am struggling with. What are the chances the Suns can get players in return that are favorable in terms of gauranteed money, contract length or even players they would want to keep on the roster all from one team?

The chances are low. The idea would be to get some good assets (picks, young players) along with some bad (long-term contracts). The idea is to find a team that is even less willing to stomach long-term salary than the Suns are. They dump salary on the Suns, add some young talent to sweeten the deal, and Carter is the magic bean that makes the numbers all work.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Ok, so assuming the goal is to try to move Carter to a team seeking cap relief for the short term, who would the market be?

Am I right in assuming that our market is only other non-playoff teams right now (I don't have the time to go through Larry Coon's Faq)

If so, then these are the other non-playoff teams and their payroll according to: http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Utah: 74.1m
Houston: 72.7m
Milwaukee: 69.8m
Toronto: 69.5m
Charlotte: 66.8m
Golden State: 66.9m
Detroit: 65.9m
Washington: 59.7m
New Jersey: 59.5m
Cleveland: 53.3m
Minnesota 53.1m
LAC: 52.0m
Sacramento: 44.0m

So which of these teams have long term albatross contracts that they'd like to get out of?

Mehmet Okur has one more year @ 10m per
Corey Maggette's got another 2 years @ 10m per
Rip Hamilton's got 2 years @ 12m per
Ben Gordon's got 2 years + another year player option @ 12m per

That's just a preliminary search, looks like there's some options out there if we're willing to eat a few years.

 

[slinslin]

Baron Davis 2yrs/30M$
Daniel Gibson 2yrs/10M$
Anderson Varejao 4yrs/35M$
Andrea Bargnani 4yrs/45M$
Linas Kleiza 3yrs/17M$
Jose Calderon 2yrs/20M$
Mehmet Okur 1yr/11M$
Corey Magette 2yrs/20M$
Rip Hamilton 2yrs/28M$
Andris Biedrins 3yrs/33M$
David Lee 5yrs/60M$
Ben Gordon 3yrs/35M$
Charlie Villanueva 3yrs/27M$
Desagna Diop 2yrs/15M$
Matt Carroll 2yrs/10M$
Boris Diaw 1yr/11M$
Tyrus Thomas 4yrs/34M$
Stephen Jackson 2yrs/20M$
John Salmons 4yrs/40M$
Drew Gooden 4yrs/25M$
Travis Outlaw 4yrs/38M$
Kevin Martin 2yrs/22M$
Hasheem Thabeet 2yrs/11M$
Brad Miller 2yrs/10M$
Rashard Lewis 2yrs/44M$
Beno Udrih 2rs/14M$
Francisco Garcia 3yrs/21M$

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1106968

Milwaukee has 3 of the 15 worst contracts in the league in Magette, Gooden and Salmons.

I don't know how bad Milwaukee would want to dump those but Magette and Gooden could be traded for Carter financially. From the Suns point of view I am not sure that their #9 pick and Jennings would be enough to compensate that however.

just some bad bad contracts.. to take back most of them I'd start with the lottery pick. Vince Carter for Rashard Lewis and pick for example.

 

[Covert Rain]

Baron Davis 2yrs/30M$
Daniel Gibson 2yrs/10M$
Anderson Varejao 4yrs/35M$
Andrea Bargnani 4yrs/45M$
Linas Kleiza 3yrs/17M$
Jose Calderon 2yrs/20M$
Mehmet Okur 1yr/11M$
Corey Magette 2yrs/20M$
Rip Hamilton 2yrs/28M$
Andris Biedrins 3yrs/33M$
David Lee 5yrs/60M$
Ben Gordon 3yrs/35M$
Charlie Villanueva 3yrs/27M$
Desagna Diop 2yrs/15M$
Matt Carroll 2yrs/10M$
Boris Diaw 1yr/11M$
Tyrus Thomas 4yrs/34M$
Stephen Jackson 2yrs/20M$
John Salmons 4yrs/40M$
Drew Gooden 4yrs/25M$
Travis Outlaw 4yrs/38M$
Kevin Martin 2yrs/22M$
Hasheem Thabeet 2yrs/11M$
Brad Miller 2yrs/10M$
Rashard Lewis 2yrs/44M$

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1106968

Milwaukee has 3 of the 15 worst contracts in the league in Magette, Gooden and Salmons.

I don't know how bad Milwaukee would want to dump those but Magette and Gooden could be traded for Carter financially. From the Suns point of view I am not sure that their #9 pick and Jennings would be enough to compensate that however.

just some bad contracts

Some really really bad contracts.

 

[slinslin]

Utah, Sacramento, Minnesota and Houston don't really have that bad contracts though.

Okur has just a year left, Minnesotas biggest contract is Beasley on his rookie deal, Houston is the same with Thabeet and Yao is coming off the books.

Sacramento who knows. Udrih and Garcia are bad but their payroll isn't high. Maybe they want to shed more contracts before relocating..

 

[elindholm]

Vince Carter for Rashard Lewis and pick for example.

Good lord. The Suns had better be getting multiple picks back in that scenario, at least one with minimal protection. Rashard Lewis has the worst contract in the history of the league, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good lord. The Suns had better be getting multiple picks back in that scenario, at least one with minimal protection. Rashard Lewis has the worst contract in the history of the league, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration.

Washington would have to love the idea of getting rid of Lewis' contract. I agree he has the worst contract I can remember especially for value. The Suns should expect a lot in return. Do it Sarver and prove you want to win.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Uhoh...

I went to do a little digging to see when we can actually trade Carter, and unless I am completely misreading or mis-classifying his contract, I don't think we can trade him.

From Larry Coon's FAQ: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q88

When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.

So, if I understand correctly, Carter's contract must be bought out by June 30th, 2011 to make him an UFA by July 1st, 2011. Theoretically we have until then to trade him. HOWEVER, we cannot trade 'players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option'.

Uh... wtf? I'm going to assume that I'm misrepresenting the case, but it sure sounds like the Suns FO screwed this one up if all the above is true.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good lord. The Suns had better be getting multiple picks back in that scenario, at least one with minimal protection. Rashard Lewis has the worst contract in the history of the league, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration.

Nah, Jon Koncak and Jerome James were worse IMO. Also, the big guy that had one decent year in college under Kevin O'Neill and then somehow ended up getting a huge contract with Seattle. I can't think of his name but it's the guy that drove Shawn Kemp off the deep end about money and pretty much led to the destruction of that team. I'm too lazy to look up his name but I'm sure someone will remember him.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Nah, Jon Koncak and Jerome James were worse IMO. Also, the big guy that had one decent year in college under Kevin O'Neill and then somehow ended up getting a huge contract with Seattle. I can't think of his name but it's the guy that drove Shawn Kemp off the deep end about money and pretty much led to the destruction of that team. I'm too lazy to look up his name but I'm sure someone will remember him.

Steve

Jim McIlvaine

 

[Cheesebeef]

Washington would have to love the idea of getting rid of Lewis' contract.

they willing took the contract on... they ain't giving up a premiumly high lotto pick to unload that sucker, especially considering the rest of their payroll is bubkis.

 

[Mainstreet]

Uhoh...

I went to do a little digging to see when we can actually trade Carter, and unless I am completely misreading or mis-classifying his contract, I don't think we can trade him.

From Larry Coon's FAQ: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q88



So, if I understand correctly, Carter's contract must be bought out by June 30th, 2011 to make him an UFA by July 1st, 2011. Theoretically we have until then to trade him. HOWEVER, we cannot trade 'players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option'.

Uh... wtf? I'm going to assume that I'm misrepresenting the case, but it sure sounds like the Suns FO screwed this one up if all the above is true.

It reads like you are right. However, I am so hoping you are wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

they willing took the contract on... they ain't giving up a premiumly high lotto pick to unload that sucker, especially considering the rest of their payroll is bubkis.

Well, we could move on to another team and player(s) but Suns_fan69 posting information may make moot.

 

[Griffin]

So, if I understand correctly, Carter's contract must be bought out by June 30th, 2011 to make him an UFA by July 1st, 2011. Theoretically we have until then to trade him. HOWEVER, we cannot trade 'players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option'.

Uh... wtf? I'm going to assume that I'm misrepresenting the case, but it sure sounds like the Suns FO screwed this one up if all the above is true.

I am not sure if this applies to Carter, but I think it's quite possible. Either way, the Suns FO did not acquire Carter so that they could trade him. It would be nice of course to be able to turn him into something, but most likely the Suns will simply buy him out like originally intended. If JRich was still here, the Suns would simply let him walk, and the end result would be the same.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Jim McIlvaine

Yeah, that's the guy. He didn't accomplish much in his NBA career but taking down the Payton/Kemp Sonics deserves a little respect.

Steve

 

[gordon]

Good lord. The Suns had better be getting multiple picks back in that scenario, at least one with minimal protection. Rashard Lewis has the worst contract in the history of the league, and I don't even think that's an exaggeration.

Arenas' contract is worse

 

[elindholm]

Uhoh...

From Larry Coon's FAQ: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q88

So, if I understand correctly, Carter's contract must be bought out by June 30th, 2011 to make him an UFA by July 1st, 2011.

I agree that it sounds that way. But everyone was talking about Erick Dampier being attractive trade bait for the same reason last summer (or was it two summers ago?), so maybe we aren't understanding something. For example, maybe technically Carter's contract doesn't "end" on June 30, even with the buyout, because he still gets paid for the 2011-12 season. (That's just a guess.)

I've emailed Coon some questions before and he has answered them cheerfully. He even has a Twitter feed now. I imagine you'd get a quick response if you asked him point-blank, "Can the Suns trade Carter this summer to a team intending to buy him out?"

 

[slinslin]

I don't think that applies to Carter.

He has no clause in his contract so he can be traded ever since the Suns are eliminated and able to trade again.

Carters final contract year is partiallz guaranteed. The team that acquires him waives him. It is not a player or team option which is what the article in the CBA is referring to.

 

[slinslin]

they willing took the contract on... they ain't giving up a premiumly high lotto pick to unload that sucker, especially considering the rest of their payroll is bubkis.

Only because they gave up a contract that is just as bad as Lewis, Arenas, at a position they did not need and huge question marks on character.

I would not say they willingly took on Lewis. They had no choice.

 

[slinslin]

Memphis might want to dump salary considering they just signed Zach to an extension and Gasol will need to be re-signed as well as Battier. They might get into luxury tax territory otherwise.

I would be interested in Mayo, Gay and Arthur. Mayo and Gay for Vince would work once Gay's BYC expires. But since that is on July 1st I don't think a trade could be done before the new CBA is in place and who knows what is possible or not possible under new rules.

 

[Errntknght]

I don't think that applies to Carter.

He has no clause in his contract so he can be traded ever since the Suns are eliminated and able to trade again.

Carters final contract year is partiallz guaranteed. The team that acquires him waives him. It is not a player or team option which is what the article in the CBA is referring to.

I read the clause the same way slin does, but I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong about it.

 

[sunsfan88]

Memphis might want to dump salary considering they just signed Zach to an extension and Gasol will need to be re-signed as well as Battier. They might get into luxury tax territory otherwise.

I would be interested in Mayo, Gay and Arthur. Mayo and Gay for Vince would work once Gay's BYC expires. But since that is on July 1st I don't think a trade could be done before the new CBA is in place and who knows what is possible or not possible under new rules.

They won't trade Gay. He is their franchise player.

Maybe we can get Marc Gasol and move Gortat to PF which IMO is his natural position.

It would be hard to get him because of the salaries we have but there some ways we can trim salary.

Trade Chill and our 1st, and may be a future first to Cleve for a TPE.
Let Brooks go to complete the Tragic Dragic trade.
Trade Lopez for a future pick or a shopping cart with a bad front wheel. (may be Cleve takes him too)
We could also pre work a deal with MP for 3-4 yrs, cutting back another 1-2 mill

This leaves 8 guys under contract for around 40 mill.
Hill (LLE) and Dowdell... minimum (400K)
2 other guys (MLE and Pg?)
and Gasol (10 mil).

 

[slinslin]

Gay is not their franchise player.

They are just making franchise history without him. It is Randolph if anything.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would be interested in Mayo, Gay and Arthur. Mayo and Gay for Vince would work once Gay's BYC expires. But since that is on July 1st I don't think a trade could be done before the new CBA is in place and who knows what is possible or not possible under new rules.

The Suns could never be that lucky. Never.