How long until the Suns are back in the playoffs?

[Mainstreet]

Well, they do have VC's contract to work with if they decide to shop him and not just buy him out themselves.

This is what worried me. This option was not even discussed.

 

[slinslin]

This is what worried me. This option was not even discussed.

It is Coro after all.

And did he really say people would get excited about Jimmer? When that happens I can cross any potential Suns games for the next season off my list. I have a little bit of hope that they would at least draft a player that will be interesting to follow and see develop even if they keep this mediocre 35 win team around.

But my faith is strong in the Utah Jazz... they will bail us out.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is what worried me. This option was not even discussed.

That is a huge gamble. If you keep Vince you are assuming someone wants that cap space. If someone doesn't bite that is gonna hurt and derail anything they probably want to do next season I would think. I think the Suns have to buy him out.

Suns are in a sucky position. YUK.

 

[Mainstreet]

which is why him saying a name people will get excited about is... JIMMER.

holy crap... if we draft that guy...

Right now the player I'm hoping for is Alec Burks. He can create and maybe play some PG guard in addition to SG. I doubt he will fall to #13, but I can only hope.

 

[slinslin]

Right now the player I'm hoping for is Alec Burks. He can create and maybe play some PG guard in addition to SG. I doubt he will fall to #13, but I can only hope.

Burks would be a legitimate exciting player.

My hope is that we somehow acquire another pick between #8-20 by trading Vince or Nash so that we can get Burks and Knight.

I would take Selby too. He is a living highlight reel and MUCH better player than what he was able to show at Kanas with the whole 9 game suspension and injury problems. I predict he will got a lot higher than most people think after workouts. He has been working out with a personal trainer for some time to prepare for the draft and people will be shocked when someone takes him in the top 20.

Worst case he will be a Ben Gordon type player imo. Best case he will turn out like Jrue Holiday and Russell Westbrook and make that transition to PG. If he can make that the sky is the limit for that kid. At least he has a chance at greatness unlike Markieff Morris or Marcus Morris who have Rodney Rogers role player written all over them.

 

[Mainstreet]

That is a huge gamble. If you keep Vince you are assuming someone wants that cap space. If someone doesn't bite that is gonna hurt and derail anything they probably want to do next season I would think. I think the Suns have to buy him out.

Suns are in a sucky position. YUK.

I'm thinking the Suns will buy-out VC unless someone wants to do a trade. The Suns will not gamble on this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm thinking the Suns will buy-out VC unless someone wants to do a trade. The Suns will not gamble on this.

agreed.

 

[slinslin]

I'm thinking the Suns will buy-out VC unless someone wants to do a trade. The Suns will not gamble on this.

Nobody would be shocked because the Suns will then go out and overpay for some mediocre role players and kill their future caproom.

Smart would be if they traded Carter to a team that wants to cut costs but only take back 1-2 year contracts and draft picks so they could be a FA player when Nash is done.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And did he really say people would get excited about Jimmer?

Man, if they got Jimmer...wow, that would really be the cherry on top.

 

[slinslin]

I'm thinking the Suns will buy-out VC unless someone wants to do a trade. The Suns will not gamble on this.

How is that a gamble? The Suns must waive Carter until June 30,2011.

They can also make trades from now on since they are eliminated. They better try to trade Carter hard until they have no choice but to waive him themselves.

 

[SirStefan32]

How is that a gamble? The Suns must waive Carter until June 30,2011.

They can also make trades from now on since they are eliminated. They better try to trade Carter hard until they have no choice but to waive him themselves.

Exactly. I hope they call every single team about VC's contract. I really worry that they will sit and wait for someone to call them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nobody would be shocked because the Suns will then go out and overpay for some mediocre role players and kill their future caproom.

Smart would be if they traded Carter to a team that wants to cut costs but only take back 1-2 year contracts and draft picks so they could be a FA player when Nash is done.

Although it appears you are not high on Coro, he tends to know what the Suns are thinking. Coro saying the Suns do not have any cap space without mentioning the possibility of doing something other than a buyout with Carter, really worries me. Also who knows what the new CBA will bring.

I saw some video on Selby and he looks impressive physically. The Suns do not have a late first round pick nor a second round pick so they might not get a shot at him. It appears Knight will go before #13. That's why I am casting wishful eyes towards Burks.

 

[Mainstreet]

How is that a gamble? The Suns must waive Carter until June 30,2011.

They can also make trades from now on since they are eliminated. They better try to trade Carter hard until they have no choice but to waive him themselves.

The problem I see, the Suns may want to pocket the money after a buy out or the new CBA will ease the financial burden of other teams making VC less attractive. I'm sure some of the owners have an idea of what the future may look like.

 

[SirStefan32]

The problem I see, the Suns may want to pocket the money after a buy out or the new CBA will ease the financial burden of other teams making VC less attractive. I'm sure some of the owners have an idea of what the future may look like.

Yeah, it will definitely be interesting to see how that plays out. Many teams will be trying to reduce their payroll, so that contract could be very valuable.
The real question is what Sarver is going to do- shed payroll or add payroll to improve the team.

 

[Covert Rain]

How is that a gamble? The Suns must waive Carter until June 30,2011.

They can also make trades from now on since they are eliminated. They better try to trade Carter hard until they have no choice but to waive him themselves.

It's a huge gamble because if the Suns hold onto Carter and can't trade him he still counts against your cap for the rest of the season. Even if you waive a player, released (waived) players with guaranteed contracts continue to be included in team salary. Even if he is picked up the Suns would still be responsible for huge portion of the guaranteed money which you know Sarver wants no part of.

So, I am guessing the Suns want that flexibility. There is no way the Suns don't buy this guy out.

 

[slinslin]

Ummm no Carters contract is only partially guaranteed he will be on the books for only 4M$ of his 18M$ final contract year.

Again how is it a gamble to try and trade Carter?

Certainly looks more appealing to me than buying him out and sign some mediocre FA.

 

[Mainstreet]

Putting it another way, another team may trade picks and player(s) for Carter so they can buy him out for 4M and reap the 14M in savings. The Suns could probably even send money to help with the buyout. The question is, is Sarver willing to pay the money to help the franchise?

 

[Covert Rain]

Putting it another way, another team may trade picks and player(s) for Carter so they can buy him out for 4M and reap the 14M in savings. The Suns could probably even send money to help with the buyout. The question is, is Sarver willing to pay the money to help the franchise?

OK, so lets talk about this. Correct me if I am wrong (this salary stuff is always confusing) but here would be our options:

Option 1
If the Suns waive Carter they owe him 4 million dollars and it counts on the books. They save the cap space.

Option 2
They pick up the option and own him 18 million. Hoping he could become the old Vince Carter or gambling that they could trade him later to a team looking to shed salary.

I don't think this is even an option.

Option 3
If the Suns trade him in the offseason, they have to for the full value of his current salary (within 10%) correct? That means the Suns would have to take on potentially more salary than the 4 million they would have to pay if they waive him since chances are portions of players coming to you would probably have more than 4 million in guaranteed monies coming back to the Suns.

Doesn't that also mean the team he is trading to could than cut Carter and having shed the salary of the other players, they would reap most of the benefits of the salary save?

I guess the Suns could do this if they could "steal" a player in exchange for the cap space. However, I thought the Suns wanted cap space for a future free agent class.

I don't see this as an option if that is the case. Also, I am not sure Sarver would take on more guaranteed money to players thrown in to make the salaries work.

 

[slinslin]

Of course the team that trades for Carter can waive him and he is on the books for just 4M$ which is if the Suns included 3M$ in cash just 1M$ in money they pay. while they would save 17M$ or more next season since they could send back about 21M$ in salaries.

Theoretically they could save 20M$ for next season plus anything the players we would take on make down the road.

This is A LOT. Salary dumps like Baron Davis for Mo Williams, Googs, Kurt Thomas etc all those trades don't even come close to the potential salary dump that would be possible using Carters contract.

Of course they would have to find a taker first and second would have to be willing to take on the salary or compensated adequately.

I don't know how many other players with similiar contracts are out there. I don't know of any so Carter is probably the only contract that would allow a team to dump salary before the new CBA.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Short answer, second half of the decade.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Or

OK, so lets talk about this. Correct me if I am wrong (this salary stuff is always confusing) but here would be our options:

Option 1
If the Suns waive Carter they owe him 4 million dollars and it counts on the books. They save the cap space.

Option 2


They pick up the option and own him 18 million. Hoping he could become the old Vince Carter or gambling that they could trade him later to a team looking to shed salary.

I don't think this is even an option.

Option 3
If the Suns trade him in the offseason, they have to for the full value of his current salary (within 10%) correct? That means the Suns would have to take on potentially more salary than the 4 million they would have to pay if they waive him since chances are portions of players coming to you would probably have more than 4 million in guaranteed monies coming back to the Suns.

Doesn't that also mean the team he is trading to could than cut Carter and having shed the salary of the other players, they would reap most of the benefits of the salary save?

I guess the Suns could do this if they could "steal" a player in exchange for the cap space. However, I thought the Suns wanted cap space for a future free agent class.

I don't see this as an option if that is the case. Also, I am not sure Sarver would take on more guaranteed money to players thrown in to make the salaries work.

icks
Carters contract is a great aY to pick up picked. But you can do the same thing with a trade exception and there are a lot of those out there right now.

 

[SirStefan32]

This is A LOT. Salary dumps like Baron Davis for Mo Williams, Googs, Kurt Thomas etc all those trades don't even come close to the potential salary dump that would be possible using Carters contract.

Yeah, if Sarver is willing to spend some money, he can get some serious value in return for this.

 

[Covert Rain]

Of course the team that trades for Carter can waive him and he is on the books for just 4M$ which is if the Suns included 3M$ in cash just 1M$ in money they pay. while they would save 17M$ or more next season since they could send back about 21M$ in salaries.

Theoretically they could save 20M$ for next season plus anything the players we would take on make down the road.

If the Suns trade Carter, they still have to take contracts back which are probably have guaranteed portions that would exceed 4 Million. They also have to count the the 3 Million maximum they included in the deal against their cap correct?

So, in year 1 the Suns could end up taking on much more salary against the cap than the 4 million they would have if they waived him and depending on the amount of guaranteed money on the contracts you took back. Even more potential money in the following years.

There is a reason these trades are hard to make work. The Suns will waive him unless they get lucky and there is some team out there getting rid of a player the Suns desperately want in exchange for cap relief.

 

[Mainstreet]

As I understand it, and by no means am I any good at this stuff, the Suns options are as follows:

1. Buy Carter out with 4M and he becomes a FA.

2. The Suns keep him and pay him 18M which is not going to happen.

3. The Suns trade him before he is bought out (probably sending 3M with him) and another team reaps the benefit of the buyout and the Suns reap favorable assets in return. Sarver would have to be willing to take on salary of the players coming back plus hopefully the Suns get picks as well.

 

[Covert Rain]

As I understand it, and by no means am I any good at this stuff, the Suns options are as follows:

1. Buy Carter out and he becomes a FA.

2. The Suns keep him and pay him 18M which is not going to happen.

3. The Suns trade him before he is bought out (probably sending 3M with him) and another team reaps the benefit of the buyout and the Suns reap favorable assets in return.

That is the part I am struggling with. What are the chances the Suns can get players in return that are favorable in terms of gauranteed money, contract length or even players they would want to keep on the roster all from one team?