If the Suns pick #1, who should they select?

[Hoop Head]

Bender had one of the worst scoring seasons ever. 35% from the field, 27% from 3, 36% from FT and really no offensive moves at all.

You want all your players to be capable scorers. Fultz has 2 way potential anyway, he has great defensive tools. It is not like you could just plug in Jackson and he would transform us into a suddenly good defensive team.

Look at Chriss in the first 2 months of the season, he was awful. The light didn't come on for him until February or so. Bender was injured for the majority of the season, which hurt his production. If the roles were reversed though and Chriss got hurt in January, would you be complaining about him? I doubt it because he's someone you liked right out of the gate, despite him showing very little early on. It takes playing time to develop and Chriss is a prime example of that.

 

[pokerface]

Fultz can play SG too, he has decent size for a shooting guard. Booker can play minutes at SF, also has acceptable size for the position at least for spurts.

If we draft Fultz we don't HAVE TO trade Bledsoe at all. We probably should for the sake of rebuilding purposes but we don't have to.

Bledsoe-Fultz-Booker-Warren-Chriss would probably be our best lineup. If we draft Jackson our best lineup would still probably be a small ball lineup with Warren at the 4 and Chriss at the 5.

This could come down to a very simple question... Who is the bigger upgrade and who is easier to deal in a trade?

Fultz>Bledsoe?

Jackson>Warren?

Which upgrade do we want folks? Which one do we need more? Which player is easier to deal and get value out of?

Consider this...We already have Bledsoe and a suitable backup in Ulis. That is a very good combination. Jackson/Warren would also be a good combo... Although some might say Warren/Jones Jr is good enough but I think the jury is still out on Warren bringing enough to the table as a full time starter.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think this is all best debatable after the lottery. With PHX's draft luck they'll defy odds and drop as far as they possibly can and then this thread becomes moot.

Don't jinx us!

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

This could come down to a very simple question... Who is the bigger upgrade and who is easier to deal in a trade?

Fultz>Bledsoe?

Jackson>Warren?

Which upgrade do we want folks? Which one do we need more? Which player is easier to deal and get value out of?

Consider this...We already have Bledsoe and a suitable backup in Ulis. That is a very good combination. Jackson/Warren would also be a good combo... Although some might say Warren/Jones Jr is good enough but I think the jury is still out on Warren bringing enough to the table as a full time starter.

The issue with this reasoning is it seems to be concerned with how good we are next year. I don't really care how good we are next year, because the best-case scenario is a fringe playoff team.

What I care about is how good we are three years from now, when Booker, Chriss, this draft pick, and the rest of the key players on our roster are reaching their potential.

So to me the question is not Fultz vs. Bledsoe, it's Fultz in three years vs. Bledsoe in three years. And then five years, seven years, etc.

 

[Hoop Head]

The issue with this reasoning is it seems to be concerned with how good we are next year. I don't really care how good we are next year, because the best-case scenario is a fringe playoff team.

What I care about is how good we are three years from now, when Booker, Chriss, this draft pick, and the rest of the key players on our roster are reaching their potential.

So to me the question is not Fultz vs. Bledsoe, it's Fultz in three years vs. Bledsoe in three years. And then five years, seven years, etc.

But will Fultz be good enough in 3 years to overtake Bledsoe considering he'll be playing backup minutes if we keep Bledsoe? I understand your point but of any position, PG is our most talented and deep position.

We need to draft someone who can start or challenge for a starting spot in their rookie year. They're going to be a top 3 pick, that's not too much to ask.

 

[pokerface]

The issue with this reasoning is it seems to be concerned with how good we are next year. I don't really care how good we are next year, because the best-case scenario is a fringe playoff team.

What I care about is how good we are three years from now, when Booker, Chriss, this draft pick, and the rest of the key players on our roster are reaching their potential.

So to me the question is not Fultz vs. Bledsoe, it's Fultz in three years vs. Bledsoe in three years. And then five years, seven years, etc.

Well in three years Booker could be a "Kobe like" scorer and need to be fed the ball...Not needing Fultz taking his shots. Who can coexist better with Booker... Fultz or Jackson? Jackson with his defense and passing abilities seems better with Booker IMO.

If we went the PG route in this draft I'd rather have Ball versus Fultz.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ball can play alongside Bledsoe and Booker without hindering the offense of either and also doesn't make us too small. Personally I like Tatum more than Jackson but I'd be fine with Ball. It's not that Fultz is a bad player but I don't see him helping the Suns win, now or in the long term.

 

[Mainstreet]

Doug Haller does his first mock today with the Celtics taking Fultz and the Suns taking Ball at #2.

If Fultz is off the table I am beginning to want Fox even more because he can bring defense to the Suns plus he can do the other things. He already can hit the mid-range shot plus his athleticism is special.

However, I could be quite happy with Jackson as well if Fultz is off the board.

Here are the first four picks:

1. Boston Celtics (via Brooklyn)
Markelle Fultz, PG, 6-4, 195 pounds, 18 years old, Washington

The Celtics need more scoring and Fultz is a score-first point guard. Early last season, Cal State Fullerton coach Dedrique Taylor – a former Arizona State assistant under Herb Sendek – said Fultz is as close to James Harden as anyone he’s seen. “He’s big, he’s strong, he’s physical. He’s athletic as hell,” Taylor said. “But he’s just like James in terms of his pace. He never hurries, never looks like he’s going hard, but he’s always in attack mode.”

2. Phoenix Suns
Lonzo Ball, PG, 6-6, 190, 19, UCLA

Given the Suns’ defensive issues, Kentucky’s De’Aaron Fox might make more sense, but Ball moves the ball better than anyone who’s entered this draft in years. At this point, his star potential trumps his unorthodox shot and his father’s nonsense. That could change.

3. Los Angeles Lakers
Josh Jackson, SF, 6-8, 203, 20, Kansas

Given his length and defensive potential, Jackson would make sense for the Suns as well, but the guess here is he slides to Los Angeles. Like Phoenix, the Lakers this season ranked near the bottom in most defensive categories, so Jackson's size and competitiveness would offer immediate assistance. Offensively, Jackson knows how to score, shooting 54.9 percent from inside the arc last season and 37.8 from outside.

4. Philadelphia 76ers
De’Aaron Fox, PG 6-4, 171, 19, Kentucky

After facing Kentucky in December, ASU coach Bobby Hurley said the left-handed Fox reminded him of Hall of Fame guard Gary Payton. That's high praise. Like Payton, Fox is defensive-minded and he excels in the open court. He also torched Ball and UCLA for 39 points in an NCAA Tournament win. Biggest concern is shooting.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...k-draft-doug-hallers-first-edition/100672698/

 

[slinslin]

Look at Chriss in the first 2 months of the season, he was awful. The light didn't come on for him until February or so. Bender was injured for the majority of the season, which hurt his production. If the roles were reversed though and Chriss got hurt in January, would you be complaining about him? I doubt it because he's someone you liked right out of the gate, despite him showing very little early on. It takes playing time to develop and Chriss is a prime example of that.

Chriss was at no point ever as unproductive and inefficient as Bender.

The roles would never be reversed because that would have required Bender to play much better which he simply did not.

 

[pokerface]

Chriss was at no point ever as unproductive and inefficient as Bender.

The roles would never be reversed because that would have required Bender to play much better which he simply did not.

Let me get this straight. Earlier in the season you basically were willing to give Len a pass and defended him up the wazoo. This is Lens fourth season. This is Benders FIRST SEASON and you act like you've written him off already. I think you've hated him from day one. I think you don't respect finesse euro players and have a soft spot for hulking power forwards/centers. Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion (and I kinda get it) but uhh...Has it come down to Chriss can do no wrong and Bender can do no right?

And ps...Have you finally jumped ship on Len? I doubt it...

 

[Covert Rain]

The fact we are all in here debating the top 3 picks at all has me excited. It's much more fun than debating how good Lopez, Len or Bender are "hopefuls" and "potential" guys blah blah and arguing hey his one move looks like player X to make us feel better about that stretch of a pick.

 

[pokerface]

The fact we are all in here debating the top 3 picks at all has me excited. It's much more fun than debating how good Lopez, Len or Bender are "hopefuls" and "potential" guys blah blah and arguing hey his one move looks like player X to make us feel better about that stretch of a pick.

I don't think there is a shortage of discussion on the top 3. There has been threads (books) written about them already. Can we branch out once in a while? It's gonna be a long summer...Just trying to keep things fresh.

 

[slinslin]

Let me get this straight. Earlier in the season you basically were willing to give Len a pass and defended him up the wazoo. This is Lens fourth season. This is Benders FIRST SEASON and you act like you've written him off already. I think you've hated him from day one. I think you don't respect finesse euro players and have a soft spot for hulking power forwards/centers. Not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion (and I kinda get it) but uhh...Has it come down to Chriss can do no wrong and Bender can do no right?

And ps...Have you finally jumped ship on Len? I doubt it...

Again, Chriss has never been as bad as Bender has been.

Even in the first month of the season Chriss put up respectable production for a rookie, Bender never has.

Len has also never been as bad as Bender was. He was close to as bad as rookie, but not as bad.
Bender was legitimately the most unproductive player in the entire league this year and had one of the worst 50 NBA seasons by a NBA player since 1947.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&forceos_is=1&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=574&c2stat=per&c2comp=lt&c2val=5.3&c6mult=1.0&order_by=ws

Dragan Bender 19yo - 3.4ppg 2.4rpg 0.5apg 0.5bpg 0.2spg 13.3mpg 35%FG 27%3s 36%FT 5.3PER
Nikoloz Tsikitsvili 19yo - 3.9ppg 2.2rpg 1.1apg 0.4bpg 0.4spg 16.3mpg 29%FG 24%3s 74%FT 4.9PER

That is the kind of territory of bad we are talking about with Bender.

I am pretty sure Marquese Chriss at no point of the season was below 10 PER.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think there is a shortage of discussion on the top 3. There has been threads (books) written about them already. Can we branch out once in a while? It's gonna be a long summer...Just trying to keep things fresh.

Not really was my point. I am saying it's refreshing to be part of the discussion verses being outsiders looking in for the top 3 and seeing countless feel better posts about players that we know probably won't pan out.

 

[Hoop Head]

Chriss was at no point ever as unproductive and inefficient as Bender.

The roles would never be reversed because that would have required Bender to play much better which he simply did not.

If you don't think Chriss was unproductive to start the season that's on you. I don't think anyone else here would say he was a positive early on, he did grow into a decent player but he was a huge negative, just not as negative as Dudley.

 

[slinslin]

If you don't think Chriss was unproductive to start the season that's on you. I don't think anyone else here would say he was a positive early on, he did grow into a decent player but he was a huge negative, just not as negative as Dudley.

It has nothing to do with THINKING. I know this. These are facts - F A C T S. There are statistical measure for productivity and efficiency.

Nobody is saying Chriss was a positive or anything but he was MILES better than Bender still. That should tell you about how bad Bender was!

 

[pokerface]

It has nothing to do with THINKING. I know this. These are facts - F A C T S. There are statistical measure for productivity and efficiency.

Nobody is saying Chriss was a positive or anything but he was MILES better than Bender still. That should tell you about how bad Bender was!

 

[3rdside]

You need to look at his stats pre injury - .325% 3's, .475% 2's - so it's definitely not fact as you say.




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[elindholm]

You need to look at his stats pre injury - .325% 3's, .475% 2's - so it's definitely not fact as you say.

Aren't those still better than Bender's stats? The question isn't whether Chriss was good or bad, but whether he was better (or, less bad) than Bender.

 

[GatorAZ]

Voted Fultz. Most complete player offensively in the draft and also youngest college prospect.

 

[slinslin]

You need to look at his stats pre injury - .325% 3's, .475% 2's - so it's definitely not fact as you say.




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And his PER was still around 6!!!

His assist rate was lower than Chriss, his percentages, everything.

When Nikoloz Tsikitsvili sucked, Denver fans were also lying to themselves how agile he was and stuff like that. I bet some still claimed he would be better than Amare after the rookie season.
If I remember right one of the stories about Skita also was how great his footwork is because he could dance or something.

 

[3rdside]

They're benders stats e..and it was .320% from 3.

I'm not saying he's awesome just that he isn't as garbage as his season stats make him out to be.

If he can shoot the three he's money - and .320% is actually not bad for a rookie; have been / are plenty of strong shooters that shot less than .300% their rookie year.

I'm definitely NOT putting my money where my mouth is though as the raw stats can't be ignored.



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[Sunburn]

And his PER was still around 6!!!

His assist rate was lower than Chriss, his percentages, everything.

When Nikoloz Tsikitsvili sucked, Denver fans were also lying to themselves how agile he was and stuff like that. I bet some still claimed he would be better than Amare after the rookie season.
If I remember right one of the stories about Skita also was how great his footwork is because he could dance or something.

Tskitishvili can't handle the ball, defend, pass, or shoot like Bender.

 

[Errntknght]

Bender's defensive stats are better than Chriss' by a significant margin. His % against was 39th out of 146 bigs while Chriss was 112th in the same group. (C & PF with over 200 minutes). Bender challenged a third more shots per 36, too. His plus-minus per 36 minutes was much better as well -2.1 vs -10.0. Slin always overlooks stats that don't conform to his ideas...

 

[SirStefan32]

He was an 18 year-old rookie playing a few minutes here and there before he got hurt and missed half the season. His pre-injury stats are fine for an 18 year-old rookie. He passes the eye test- he moves extremely well, does an excellent job defensively, handles the ball well, and has a very high basketball IQ. I don't understand what the hell anybody expected. We are talking about an 18 year-old 7'1 rookie.