Igor Fired

[1tinsoldier]

...And yes, I did say that years down the road we might be talking about him as the best coach we've ever had. But I meant that literally, not as the prediction some seemed to take it as...

uh, you might just be better off not saying anything for a while, like Sir* and *Head whose abundant and aggressively repressive posts you "liked" so much

 

[Cheesebeef]

uh, you might just be better off not saying anything for a while, like Sir* and *Head whose abundant and aggressively repressive posts you "liked" so much

this doesn't help your cause dude.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Normally you'd want the new Head Coach to be on board before the draft, as part of the decision making. But with the Suns not being a choice destination for good coaches, would it be better to wait until we see
how high our pick is and hope that, if it is high, we might attract a good coach. What do you think?

the risk is that we don't get the higher pick and our stock goes down
but considering our stock is already so low, i agree it might be best to wait

 

[Cheesebeef]

Questions for those who seemed to scoff at the notion that Ayton wasn't being used right. Do you believe James Jones is wrong here, because it was one of the reasons Gambo gave for why the Suns moved on from Koko?

 

[Cheesebeef]

the risk is that we don't get the higher pick and our stock goes down
but considering our stock is already so low, i agree it might be best to wait

no way. you can't go into the draft without a coach. As dysfunctional as this FO already is, that would make us an even bigger laughingstock... if that's possible.

 

[Chaplin]

Questions for those who seemed to scoff at the notion that Ayton wasn't being used right. Do you believe James Jones is wrong here, because it was one of the reasons Gambo gave for why the Suns moved on from Koko?

No, I'm in the camp that it was one of the main reasons he was fired. As you yourself have said, offensively we saw little to no improvement from him. I think we might disagree somewhat on the defensive question.

What is funny is that I was listening to The Timeline podcast, which I generally like, but one of the guys on there was gushing about how all the young players, save Josh Jackson, showed marked improvement. I think there was some, but it was pretty damn subtle and what you would expect regardless of who the coach was.

To be fair, though, I was NOT an advocate of getting rid of Igor, but I understand why we did it, even if a bit surprised.

 

[Superbone]

Questions for those who seemed to scoff at the notion that Ayton wasn't being used right. Do you believe James Jones is wrong here, because it was one of the reasons Gambo gave for why the Suns moved on from Koko?

Did anybody really do that? Isn't it pretty obvious that he's a physical specimen and should be posting up down low and demanding the ball? I don't recall a lot of people saying otherwise but maybe there were. I think we all agree Ayton needs to be more aggressive. The few times he would get the ball down low, he'd often immediately pass it back out. He needs to be taught to assert himself down in the block. Hopefully, he'll learn that in time and get more comfortable doing that.

 

[1tinsoldier]

By a woman reporting it 2 years later after she voluntarily went into his hotel room.

Yeah, okay.

...I stopped reading her accusation after reading the date for when it allegedly occurred.

wow! and only 1 poster didn't let those remarks slide

apparently there are no women on this forum

 

[Hoop Head]

Lets fire the coach but not his assistants. Retaining 1, maybe 2, isn't unusual if they had been with the franchise a while, usually longer than the head coach that was in place, but keeping all of Igor's assistants is a head scratcher. Just like how the front office apparently believed this was a "veteran roster" headed into last season. The issue doesn't appear to be Igor, it's Jones, unless McD was selling it as a veteran roster to Sarver and that's what got him canned. That is a possibility but at the same time retaining Igor's assistant coaches still doesn't make a whole lot of sense and that's a Jones move.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1920...ed-assistants-after-dismissing-igor-kokoskov/

 

[1tinsoldier]

Did anybody really do that?

yes, several scoffed at the notion that Igor should be criticized for not using Ayton the right way, citing that Ayton was more to blame

 

[Superbone]

Obviously, the biggest issue here has been in the hiring process. Sarver is the only constant in that process over the last 5 years. Jones was involved with the last one. It kind of feels like they're throwing darts and hoping one sticks. When you're not interested in hiring established coaches, I'm afraid that's going to continue to be an issue.

 

[Cheesebeef]

wow! and only 1 poster didn't let those remarks slide

apparently there are no women on this forum

at this point, I think a lot of us would rather just ignore such stupidity than give it power by furthering discussion. at least that's what I did.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Obviously, the biggest issue here has been in the hiring process. Sarver is the only constant in that process over the last 5 years. Jones was involved with the last one. It kind of feels like they're throwing darts and hoping one sticks. When you're not interested in hiring established coaches, I'm afraid that's going to continue to be an issue.

this is basically what I said last night. Our franchise is in essence being run by a drunken blind man throwing darts. At this point, we have to just hope he lucks out and eventually hits a bullseye.

 

[1Sun]

Lets fire the coach but not his assistants. Retaining 1, maybe 2, isn't unusual if they had been with the franchise a while, usually longer than the head coach that was in place, but keeping all of Igor's assistants is a head scratcher. Just like how the front office apparently believed this was a "veteran roster" headed into last season. The issue doesn't appear to be Igor, it's Jones, unless McD was selling it as a veteran roster to Sarver and that's what got him canned. That is a possibility but at the same time retaining Igor's assistant coaches still doesn't make a whole lot of sense and that's a Jones move.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1920...ed-assistants-after-dismissing-igor-kokoskov/

Hopefully, they are just waiting to see if the coach they hire will want to retain any of them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Lets fire the coach but not his assistants. Retaining 1, maybe 2, isn't unusual if they had been with the franchise a while, usually longer than the head coach that was in place, but keeping all of Igor's assistants is a head scratcher. Just like how the front office apparently believed this was a "veteran roster" headed into last season. The issue doesn't appear to be Igor, it's Jones, unless McD was selling it as a veteran roster to Sarver and that's what got him canned. That is a possibility but at the same time retaining Igor's assistant coaches still doesn't make a whole lot of sense and that's a Jones move.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1920...ed-assistants-after-dismissing-igor-kokoskov/

if they don't let a new coach bring in his own team of assistants it will be... well... par for the course for this FO.

 

[Hoop Head]

Another tidbit on this firing from Gambo....

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So it wasn't the record, it was how the front office viewed a team with Chandler, Ariza, Ryan Anderson, and Dudley as a team that was a veteran team ready to compete, despite just getting the #1 overall pick and making a deal to add a 2nd player from the lottery in the last draft.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Igor wasn't put in a position to win, no one who coached that team could have pushed them into the playoffs. I doubt Popovich could have gotten 40 wins out of last year's opening roster.

 

[1Sun]

Obviously, the biggest issue here has been in the hiring process. Sarver is the only constant in that process over the last 5 years. Jones was involved with the last one. It kind of feels like they're throwing darts and hoping one sticks. When you're not interested in hiring established coaches, I'm afraid that's going to continue to be an issue.

Which is why the likes of David Vanterpool, Joe Prunty and (sad to say) Becky Hammon shouldn't even be considered for the position. We have dipped in that well too much. We need someone with experience and a track record...badly.

 

[Superbone]

One of the biggest problems was that roster. They were much better without those dudes.

 

[Hoop Head]

this is basically what I said last night. Our franchise is in essence being run by a drunken blind man throwing darts. At this point, we have to just hope he lucks out and eventually hits a bullseye.

I've seen drunks play some damn fine games of darts. This front office is smoking crack. That might also explain why they haven't hired a team chef, crackheads don't even think about eating. They're far too busy wrangling goats.

 

[Sunburn]

I found it interesting that Gambo said Prunty seemed more like the guy in charge than Igor. I think Igor's passivity hurt him here.

 

[1tinsoldier]

... keeping all of Igor's assistants is a head scratcher...

so, 159 posts in and "keeping all of Igor's assistants is a head scratcher" is, essentially, all you've got to say?
talk about head scratchers
you defended Igor against every criticism, and attacked every critic relentlessly for 6 months

and now your only complaint is that they didn't fire the assistants too?

(followed with something about goats?)

 

[1tinsoldier]

... I doubt Popovich could have gotten 40 wins out of last year's opening roster.

now you're admitting that a better coach could have gotten significantly more wins?

i thought no coach could have done anything with so little talent, injuries, and lack of stability?

 

[Superbone]

I found it interesting that Gambo said Prunty seemed more like the guy in charge than Igor. I think Igor's passivity hurt him here.

Yes, that is very telling if true. Sounds like maybe there was good reason for him being an assistant for so long. Maybe that's where his value lies. Some people just aren't leaders and are unable to grow into that role. I'll admit even though I advocated for some consistency for a change, if that's the case, this was the right move.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Another tidbit on this firing from Gambo....

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

So it wasn't the record, it was how the front office viewed a team with Chandler, Ariza, Ryan Anderson, and Dudley as a team that was a veteran team ready to compete, despite just getting the #1 overall pick and making a deal to add a 2nd player from the lottery in the last draft.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Igor wasn't put in a position to win, no one who coached that team could have pushed them into the playoffs. I doubt Popovich could have gotten 40 wins out of last year's opening roster.

no coach needed to get to the playoffs or would be expected to... and if this FO actually believed they could and should, they're... well... out of their minds as usual. It was taking a step BACKWARD from the worst record in franchise history that was a problem and major red flag as far as Igor was concerned, IMO. That and the lack of development of Ayton and Josh Jackson and to a certain extent Bridges which were the final straws that broke Igor's back.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've seen drunks play some damn fine games of darts.

drunks yes... but blind drunks?!

This front office is smoking crack. That might also explain why they haven't hired a team chef, crackheads don't even think about eating. They're far too busy wrangling goats.

lol.