I'm Calling My Shot: Newton is a Bust

desertdawg

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Point by point.

1-You're too biased on the issue. In your mind he's already a HOF QB, and anyone that contradicts you is dismissed out of hand. How about saying IF he busts records in the NFL. When you say WHEN, your argument becomes void.

2-Actually, his 'so-called' problems chased him away from the field. Oh, that's another spot for your bias--'so-called problems'. None of them were 'so-called'. He HAD problems in college, and your man-crush can't make them disappear.

But to the point at hand, his real, concrete problems, problems with the law and with maturity, caused him to leave the NCAA. He had to transfer away from a major program, regroup his image at a far lower level, and come back again. That means his problems have already translated to the field.

This is the NFL. He can't go away for a year to the UFL and come back to the same situation if he screws up that bad. That's the risk a team will take with Newton. Is he just saying all the right things about his life? The problem with accepting his reformation at face value is that he continues to run his mouth like an idiot. It goes a long way counting against him, and it will hurt him in draft position, IMO.

Look, you love the kid as a prospect. I get that. Maybe when you stop stating for a fact how good he'll be you'll be taken a little more seriously on the topic.

I don't really care how seriously you take my opinions on Cam Newton (but we will see how common my opinion is in the draft, and I called it way back in the day). My points were more about people hating on him before he even got a shot. Guess I wasn't very clear, my bad. :D
 
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TJ

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I don't really care how seriously you take my opinions on Cam Newton. My points were more about people hating on him before he even got a shot. Guess I wasn't very clear, my bad. :D

It's not about hating him, it's about in depth analysis. It'd be just like me saying that Mallet needs to work on his athletic ability. Newton has glaring issues that far exceed his physical prowess. Like I always say, most football players with many off field issues have only one eye on the football field and one eye on their personal issues. You need both eyes on the field to succeed in the game.
 

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Then he should have gone to another 4 year college. Juco doesnt help him at all. Just shows he's better than a bunch of above average high school players. IMO, he would have been better served staying at Florida and learning under Urban Myer and Tebow, unless he was kicked out of UF as rumors have stated. Perhaps his dad wouldnt try and bribe schools for his services and benefit financially from his kid's skills.

In all honesty I dont think you are taking into consideration the many off-the-field issues this guy is going to bring with him to the league. I know you want to draw comparisons to Elway and Cutler to prove a point, but they had small problems when compared side-to-side with Newton. Do you think his recent remarks and cocky personality are going to be welcomed in a veteran laden locker room?

Physically, he is your prototyical QB; however, if these issues continue to augment, he will be the equivalent to a Corvette with no engine.

But he wouldn't've been able to play for a year if he went to another FBS school. He DOMINATED in the best conference in the country the one year when he played FBS. Would he be a better prospect if he'd went down to FCS for two years and dominated that like Joe Flacco and Pat Devlin? Should Ryan Mallett have stayed at Michigan once they switched to the spread option? Should Pat Devlin had stayed at Penn State? Should Flacco just have toughed it out at Pittsburgh?

Honestly, I don't think veterans are going to care about whether or not he thinks his an entertainer-slash-icon as long as he comes to work first thing and does all the other little things you need to succeed from jump street. As long as he doesn't prevent his teammates from looking good and making their money, I don't think it matters.

Is Newton saying that he has gifts from God really worse than John Elway or Eli Manning refusing to play for the teams that drafted them? Really? Really? Do you really think that Levi Brown would endanger his 2012 salary and block poorly for Cam Newton because Newton bought a stolen laptop in 2007? Do you honestly think that?
 

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I don't really care how seriously you take my opinions on Cam Newton (but we will see how common my opinion is in the draft, and I called it way back in the day). My points were more about people hating on him before he even got a shot. Guess I wasn't very clear, my bad. :D

No, your points were about people hating him and saying they'll hate him WHEN he's great. Nice that you have confidence in the kid, but to say he WILL be great is dumb; to say you THINK he'll be great is accurate. I could just say he WILL suck and that I'm right and you're wrong, but that wouldn't work either :)
 

desertdawg

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He is going to a bust in similar way to Vince Young. He will have some stats and flashes, but will never become a good starting QB in the pros.

He is not a good passer, very inaccurate and can't scan the field.

He is the best scrambler i have seen since Michael Vick. And that will make him very dangerous and will ensure that he gets some solid games against teams that don't know how to gameplan against running QB's. Vick is ten times better, and even with him we saw that his style of play doesn't stand a chance once you are in the playoffs, it's so easy for the best defensive coaches to gameplan against this. It does not win you championships. You need to dominate in the pocket as passer to be the ultimate mismatch.

He is extremely elusive and fast. That's why he won't bust in Jamarcus Russell way.

However, it comes down to his passing abilities wheter he will really make it or not. And it comes down to his personality. Both are very negative for the pro game at the moment, and in the end, i don't think he makes a good starter at all.
Glad you let me in on these facts, I would have never known. Are we sure I am the one with the biased opinion?
 
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Mulli

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agree. This is a great thread people. Great discussion. No joke.

But he wouldn't've been able to play for a year if he went to another FBS school. He DOMINATED in the best conference in the country the one year when he played FBS. Would he be a better prospect if he'd went down to FCS for two years and dominated that like Joe Flacco and Pat Devlin? Should Ryan Mallett have stayed at Michigan once they switched to the spread option? Should Pat Devlin had stayed at Penn State? Should Flacco just have toughed it out at Pittsburgh?

Honestly, I don't think veterans are going to care about whether or not he thinks his an entertainer-slash-icon as long as he comes to work first thing and does all the other little things you need to succeed from jump street. As long as he doesn't prevent his teammates from looking good and making their money, I don't think it matters.

Is Newton saying that he has gifts from God really worse than John Elway or Eli Manning refusing to play for the teams that drafted them? Really? Really? Do you really think that Levi Brown would endanger his 2012 salary and block poorly for Cam Newton because Newton bought a stolen laptop in 2007? Do you honestly think that?
 

Early

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Glad you let me in on these facts, I would have never known.

It's not a fact, it's my opinion. It's also your opinion that he will dominate the pro's. So it's nothing different. We post our opinions.
 

Mulli

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And he failed once again big time when it mattered the most. Eagles had a team capable of a championship.

You need to be a fantastic passer to win in these games. Their chances would be much better with Kolb.

Newton reminds in his skillset of Vick, but Vick is just much better.

What has Kolb ever done when it mattered? And Andy Reid teams have a pattern of failing when it matters.
 

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I don't really care how seriously you take my opinions on Cam Newton (but we will see how common my opinion is in the draft, and I called it way back in the day). My points were more about people hating on him before he even got a shot. Guess I wasn't very clear, my bad. :D

You love the word hate. What's with that?
 

desertdawg

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Haters gonna hate, even when Newton is busting records, they will still hate. They might even dedicate a thread to hate'n on him, I can understand.

I started one about that annoying ESPN lady, but at least I have seen her do her job, and that is where my distaste came from. Her performance, while Cam's performance has been nothing short of awesome. His so called problems never follow him to the field, but hate away my bust thirsty friends.

You love the word hate. What's with that?

It was my other post (the one I quoted above yours) where I let the H word fly. It is the post where I was supposedly jocking Newton with my biased opinion on him. It was a post I still stand behind, because of lots of folks hating on Newton. I aint starting threads about how great he will be, I started one that said he would go top 7. Like I said, hate away my bust thirsty friends, he probably won't make it to the 5th pick. You know, because he is a bust. :D
 
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Like I said, hate away my bust thirsty friends, he probably won't make it to the 5th pick. You know, because he is a bust. :D
Sorry to "bust" your bubble, but hate is not what this thread is about.

He's not a criminal or even a bad person.

Hey, if he becomes a star, more power to him. I liked watching him play at Auburn this past season. I don't have anything against him. The NFL could use more quality QBs...I hope he adds to our entertainment from the game.
 

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It was my other post (the one I quoted above yours) where I let the H word fly. This is the post where I was supposedly jocking Newton with my biased opinion on him. It was a post I still stand behind, because of lots of folks hating on Newton. I aint starting threads about how great he will be, I started one that said he would go top 7. Like I said, hate away my bust thirsty friends, he probably won't make it to the 5th pick. You know, because he is a bust. :D

I followed the sequence and that is why I asked the question. It just seems that hate, haters and hating is way overused by some people who use that as a point in their debate. Maybe it is a generational thing. If you don't like it you must hate it.
 

desertdawg

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Sorry to "bust" your bubble, but hate is not what this thread is about.
I know that bro, the thread is about Cam being as good as the hype that is around him. Even if he is just a decent QB in the NFL, it would still be considered (by me) to be somewhat of a bust. IMO
 

desertdawg

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I followed the sequence and that is why I asked the question. It just seems that hate, haters and hating is way overused by some people who use that as a point in their debate. Maybe it is a generational thing. If you don't like it you must hate it.
I'm a peaceful dorito loving guy, I promise.:)
 

Early

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What has Kolb ever done when it mattered? And Andy Reid teams have a pattern of failing when it matters.


He has not done that, never had a chance. But with Vick, i feel that is going to happen just about every time in playoffs, as it has so far with both Falcons and Eagles. With Kolb, you just don't know at all. He is a better passer than Vick, that is quiet obvious to me. Is he great? Probably not, I don't know, but he has shown that he has more of a pocket game than Vick.
 

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But he wouldn't've been able to play for a year if he went to another FBS school. He DOMINATED in the best conference in the country the one year when he played FBS. Would he be a better prospect if he'd went down to FCS for two years and dominated that like Joe Flacco and Pat Devlin?

You prove my point here. If he got kicked out of UF as many have said, playing in the FCS would have been MUCH better than playing Juco ball.


Should Ryan Mallett have stayed at Michigan once they switched to the spread option? Should Pat Devlin had stayed at Penn State? Should Flacco just have toughed it out at Pittsburgh?
All irrelevant and off topic. None of whom had serious off the field issue, except for Mallet (possible drug problem) and that switch was due to system changes.

Honestly, I don't think veterans are going to care about whether or not he thinks his an entertainer-slash-icon as long as he comes to work first thing and does all the other little things you need to succeed from jump street. As long as he doesn't prevent his teammates from looking good and making their money, I don't think it matters.
Really?? If someone came to your job, 21 years old and declared himself the greatest thing since sliced bread without having proved anything, it wouldnt make you be a little suspicious of this guy's mindset? I sure would. And I bet a bunch of players, who are already a little pissed that top 5 QB draft picks get more in guaranteed money than they get in their entire careers, would not welcome him with open arms. NFL players have strong personalities. Leaders like A-Dubb could be put off by him.

This all sounds familiar to us Cards fans. Sounds like Matt Leinart, who proved to his teammates over the years that his attention was more towards co-eds and living the college life still and less on football.

Is Newton saying that he has gifts from God really worse than John Elway or Eli Manning refusing to play for the teams that drafted them? Really? Really?
Yes, really. And by a LONG shot. Especially when compounded with the other issues i.e. his father treating him like a prostitute, arrogant statements about his future and holding an unnecessary "media workout." Elway and Manning didnt want to play for the Colts and Chargers respectively. Positive situations? No. But benign when compared to Newton.


Do you really think that Levi Brown would endanger his 2012 salary and block poorly for Cam Newton because Newton bought a stolen laptop in 2007? Do you honestly think that?
First, Brown cant block worth ****, so Id be concerned with whoever is behind center for their life.

Second, when playing QB, you're supposed to be a leader. He may have been respected in the Auburn huddle, but when he takes the field with veteran players, are they going to listen to him and go all out like they did for Kurt or are they going to be put off by his arrogance? That's the $64 question.

If the Cards are looking at him with the #5 pick, they need to ask themselves if he's worth the $35 mil +/- guaranteed salary and the possibility of having a 5 year bust on their hands. Physically, he is one of the better QBs in the draft. But where is he at mentally and how mature is he?
 
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Buckybird

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I think another telling fact about Cam's mindset is his refusal to take a knee on the next to the last play of the BCS title game. Totally ignoring coaches orders in the biggest game of your life is very concering IMO. But I'm just hatin' :D
 

Arizona's Finest

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Anyone else here he referred to himself in the third person three times during his press conference today and blew up during his one on ones when asked about the kneel down in the BCS championship game?

I am all over the board on Cam being a good NFL player but more and more I don't want the Cardinals taking ANY part in him.

He might end up being a good player. Buts its pretty obvious he is a Grade A douchebag. No thanks.

Guess that makes me a hater lol. Or maybe just willing to comprehend what my eyes and ears are telling me.....
 

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To think there aren't off field concerns about him is just burying your head in the sand. There also is little questioning his physical ability. To me, the real question won't be known about him until he faces adversity. People can say he faced adversity at Auburn but he really didn't. Auburn babied him and pampered him the whole time just like Texas did with Vince Young. Just like every college does with their star players. That's not going to happen in the NFL. We saw how VY reacted and quit on his team, twice. What's Cam going to do when he throws 5 int's, gets un-mercilessly booed, and pulled from the game? It's all good when you're the hero, we'll see what happens when he's not.
 

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Where is this reputation for arrogance coming from? Did people actually read the quote from Newton without Hench's rabble-rousing:



This is a kid who took time off during football season to go and visit an underprivileged school regularly. Is there any question that Cam Newton has God-given talents for playing this game? His father's a minister, for Christ's sake. I hear normal kids talk like this all the time.

Lotta this going around in this thread:

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Let's make sure we pick up the kid with the coke problem.

Where is the reputation of arrogance coming from? Seriously?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6162145

Oh wait I bet by Websters definition of arrogance, talking about yourself in the third person and declaring you want to be an ICON before you have actually started for a 2nd year of high level football is your definition of humble pie.

Attention ASFN: K9 has sunk his teeth into a subject. Newtons going to have to take out an orphanage with a machine gun before K9 will admit he has character issues. Par for the course.

Carry on.

Haterade.....lol welcome back to 2003 everybody!
 

kerouac9

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Where is the reputation of arrogance coming from? Seriously?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6162145

Oh wait I bet by Websters definition of arrogance, talking about yourself in the third person and declaring you want to be an ICON before you have actually started for a 2nd year of high level football is your definition of humble pie.

Attention ASFN: K9 has sunk his teeth into a subject. Newtons going to have to take out an orphanage with a machine gun before K9 will admit he has character issues. Par for the course.

Carry on.

Haterade.....lol welcome back to 2003 everybody!

Wow! An unsourced report from "NFL insiders" downgrading a possible Top 10 talent in the run-up to the draft!? Unbelievable! It must be true that Cam Newton totally broke down when asked a perfectly predictable question.
 

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Wow! An unsourced report from "NFL insiders" downgrading a possible Top 10 talent in the run-up to the draft!? Unbelievable! It must be true that Cam Newton totally broke down when asked a perfectly predictable question.

Arizona's Finest certainly doesn't understand why people think Cam is arrogant. He seems like such a humble guy. Arizona's Finest also thinks K9 is spot on and that Cam Newton is just getting a bunch of mean media people spinning stuff to make him look bad.

Arizona's Finest wants the media to quit making stuff up about Cam! Its obvious to Arizona's Finest that he's a great guy, always doing right, and certainly should NEVER EVER be considered as a me first guy. Theres no evidence of that whatsoever.

And if there is, Arizona's Finest thinks it was planted on Cam. Just like that laptop. His dad is a preacher for gods sakes!!!!
 

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All this talk about Newton, Gabbert & Mallet will all be a moot point once we select someone other than them in the 2011 draft. I really don't think the Cards will draft a QB in Rd 1 because IMO they don't believe the upside of any outweigh the negatives. Just a hunch...but the uncertainty of OLB & ILB in future years keeps them focusing on the defensive side of the ball early.
 

desertdawg

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He might end up being a good player. Buts its pretty obvious he is a Grade A douchebag. No thanks.

Guess that makes me a hater lol. Or maybe just willing to comprehend what my eyes and ears are telling me.....

Yes, it is so obvious. Again, he turned in 2 papers he didn't write and he bought a laptop that was on loot. I thought the term douchebag was for, well... douchebags. He hasn't hurt anybody, killed any body or anything, no criminal lifestyle, nothing crazy like people here act. I would think the "grade A douchebag" to be the worst kind, but what do I know?

I must be a douchebag, I would buy a laptop on loot. :D I also let my girlfriends do my papers in school. ******* me. Had a bunch of traffic tickets when I was young too, the humanity.

I am honestly done with this thread, my life is too much fun to hate on or stick up for the hated on any longer when everybodies opinion (including mine) is just a opinion. Akuna matada, por pavor, sayonara, live well and prosper, danka. :)
 
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