Hypothesis
Draft Junkie
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
- Posts
- 1,036
- Reaction score
- 179
I'm Calling My Shot: Newton is a Bust
- Thread starter Pariah
- Start date
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
You must be registered for see images
I agree here. What if a guy stays at a 4 year school but sits on the bench for 3 years then has a great senior season? Is that any different than playing at a juco? Mark Sanchez only had 73 completions before his last college season for instance.
The Alabama-Auburn game showed me all I need to know about Newton. If we draft him I'll be happy. If he goes somewhere else I'll hope he throws 5 INTs every time he plays the Cardinals.
Of course OJ Simpson played Juco ball so maybe that isn't something you want in a player.
Again this is simply not true. Just because the California JCs can't play decent football doesn't mean those in Kansas and Texas and Arizona don't.
You take the top Division HS Champion in any State in the Country and play Blinn JC and Blinn wins 70-6.
Sure the game is inferior to the top 4 year schools but so are teams like the Citadel and Fordham and Tennessee State and it isn't anywhere near glorified High School ball as you claim.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
While character may be an issue with Cam, his ability to play the position in the pros is what I am most concerned about. He just hasn't done it, and I am not sure if a team takes him high that they will give him the time he needs to develop.
I don't get what you are saying here. Do you mean he didn't play in a pro style offense in college?
Of course I like to go along with those here who say that playing in a spread offense and taking most snaps in the shotgun is not a problem for a QB coming to Arizona where we go shotgun and 3-4 wide on 3rd and 1.
LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Dont the cards basically run the spread offense?
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
You are using outliers in your argument.
If we are talking our respective regions, this would be like me saying Cerritos college would beat up on Corona Centennial high.
The best JC is going to beat the best HS. Thats a given. What I dont think you're understanding is that NJCAA ball as a whole is no where near the university ranks when it comes to competition. I worked for a JC team last season and got to witness some of these players. Mind you, Los Angeles harbors some of the best JC teams in the nation! I attended more than 11 games and 5 practices a week.
While watching, you see some great plays, but you still see some of the irresponsible plays that you would get if watching a high school match. For example, in one play, I saw a fumbled punt picked up by the kicking team, player was running it to the end zone and decided to lateral the ball to his teammate only to have the lateral intercepted.
What the point is is that Newton was playing against much much much inferior competition and it did nothing to benefit him IMO when it comes to improving talent.
In addition to which, when you have a guy like Newton, who has already proven to be arrogant based on his actions and words, bludgeoning these inferior opponents may only further stroke his ego.
Last edited:
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Evaluators say that he has a "handful" of plays that he has run in college that translate to the NFL game. A "handful". As far as our use of the shotgun and how it compares with the spread offense that he ran in college, it doesn't. Not even close. Moreover, I am not worried about Cam's ability to drop back from under center. I am worried about what happens when he drops back, sees his first read is covered and then what does he do? I ask that because he has never really had to answer that question in his entire career with anything but run the ball. That won't fly in the NFL.
You gotta watch some film bro, he knows what to do and it fits well in Az. His receivers weren't all that and he created by either running with it, or acting like he was going to run with it and throwing in some pump fakes. He got really good at this towards the end of the season. It opened up his receivers, froze the defenses and and extended drives in every game. Mix that with our O-line, and he fits even better.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
You gotta watch some film bro, he knows what to do and it fits well in Az. His receivers weren't all that and he created by either running with it, or acting like he was going to run with it and throwing in some pump fakes. He got really good at this towards the end of the season. It opened up his receivers, froze the defenses and and extended drives in every game. Mix that with our O-line, and he fits even better.
One read and run doesn't fit any offense in professional football. His running with the football and pump faking will get him destroyed in a league comprised of grown men rather than undersized college defenders. I have watched film on Newton and while he is a fabulous athlete, he is also a very under developed QB.
Yamon, I understand what your saying. But what I meant is he is mobile enough to buy time when that rush comes in and there is no where to throw it. That is a skill set in the NFL that is valuable.
Your right, he is underdeveloped, but he has shown he can handle what has been put infront of him. That's all he could really do, succeed where he was with what he had. The way he made his team better is what really gets me, more so than the raw (I agree he is raw) talent. That refuse to lose attitude (on the field) bumps him up even more.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
That is a hell of a lot of risk to put into the 5th pick in the draft, and we haven't even addressed the issues about his character. He may turn out to be a good pro, but he is a terrible fit for the Cardinals right now with the team and staff that they have.
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Y His receivers weren't all that and he created by either running with it, or acting like he was going to run with it and throwing in some pump fakes. He got really good at this towards the end of the season. It opened up his receivers, froze the defenses and and extended drives in every game. Mix that with our O-line, and he fits even better.
If you really believe Newton will be running that offense in the NFL, get ready to watch him spit his chicklets out on TV. Remember the shot Tebow took in his first preseason game this year when he left with a shoulder injury? Or the beatings Vick took toward the end of the year. Believe me the last thing a franchise wants to do is put it's supposed face of the team (QB) in harms way. The great QB's in the NFL succeed from the pocket & I'm not sure Newton can do that.
Last edited:
The best QBs face the best defenses in the playoffs, where the pocket isn't really there all the time. The best QBs buy time and then throw it. He doesn't fall down when some one touches him, he doesn't throw scarey shuffle passes, and he does know how to throw it away or take a sack. He makes it happen.
Every time I hear this I think about the TD run Vince Young had where he destroyed the Texans Safety as he ran into the end zone.
When you think about running QBs and how teams will use a spy to keep them under control remember that makes the defense play 10 on 10 instead of 11 on 10.
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
While your right Duck I can't think of 1 of those atheltic new breed of QB's win a Super Bowl, even get to one. Staubach & Tarkenton did years ago, but todays game is still based on the guy who is best in the pocket & deliver the ball quickly because of the athletic freaks chasing them. Pocket passers & minds win titles.
Yes and that brings up another move of the NFL defenses. If the teams are going more and more to guys who can quickly read defenses and release the ball what good is your pass rush?
I watched far too many throws vs the Cards where the offense had guys catching passes wide open well before even the most physical freaks could get to them. Warner took us to the SB doing it. Then I remember Brady having all day to throw vs the Jets and finding no one to throw to. So I think the key now is instead of pass rushers going with better press cover corners and safeties so guys like Brady and Brees and Manning can't find anyone open 1.5 seconds after the snap.
Better secondaries and bigger RBs will be the key to success 5 years from now.
I think another telling fact about Cam's mindset is his refusal to take a knee on the next to the last play of the BCS title game. Totally ignoring coaches orders in the biggest game of your life is very concering IMO. But I'm just hatin'
Better than slurpin'.
You gotta watch some film bro, he knows what to do and it fits well in Az. His receivers weren't all that and he created by either running with it, or acting like he was going to run with it and throwing in some pump fakes. He got really good at this towards the end of the season. It opened up his receivers, froze the defenses and and extended drives in every game. Mix that with our O-line, and he fits even better.
You can't be trusted.
and now add 2 more games from the old 16 game schedule. Just more opportunity to get busted up. I can't believe any NFL team will be running Malzhan's high school offense for Newton. I cracked up yesterday when the NFL Network panel were just cracking on Newton and his hype. 5 minutes into the show Mayock said, " I am so Newtoned out " . Then the production crew started throwing up Newton media day workout film to basically poke at Newton. It was good TV.
BTW, didn't Tebow's debut run into the line also include busted ribs with the shoulder injury? Going into year 2 he is still back up QB. Imagine paying Newton top 5 money to sit and learn. He is not worth the gamble of Bradford, Ryan and Stafford. Stafford is not a running QB and can't get off the IR.
BW52
Registered
+2 agree.Don`t want Newton anywhere near the Cards.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
So, K9, I'll just ask you flat-out, since you dismiss any post about it: do you really have zero concern about Newton's off-field issues?
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
If he wasnt expecting to have this question asked, then he's an idiot.
While predictable, it is a question which has merit. If he is willing to disobey his coach in the waning seconds of the BCS championship game, what's to say he wont do the same in the NFL?
Honestly man, you just dont understand what Newton is all about. You really dont. You are dismissing any legitimate red flag that surrounds him . Seems like the only one you'll admit to was "buying" a stolen laptop. That's just the beginning, unfortunately. Physically, he's a great QB but any team who takes him is taking on a huge liability.
Have you been taking bribes from Cam's dad to change your avatar and make him sound like the second coming of Jesus Christ?
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I've been ignoring you on this issue because after your comments on the Ralph Wiley piece a couple months ago I'm wondering if you're studying to play Iago. But since you asked, I'll respond.
Zero concern? I don't know. I'm not concerned about the laptop; I'm not concerned about him letting his dad handle his second recruiting tour. I have far more football concerns about Newton than I do about attitude. I think that those problems tend to be more cultural than they are mental (both from a player's perspective and from the media/fans). But I have less care about attitude than most other people about any prospect or player. I'm less concerned about Newton's off-field concerns than I was about Vince Young's, for example. IMO Newton isn't Mike Vick or Vince Young or Adam Jones from a personality standpoint.
I'm more concerned about football concerns with Newton, such as his ability to digest an NFL offense. But I think that concerns about whether teammates will buy into the Cam Newton Experience are deeply overstated. You still had players on the Titans shouting out to Vince Young after he'd been placed on IR.
Mostly, I think that--as I've said in this thread and others--that Cam Newton has a chance to be a transcendental quarterback who challenges comparison. His actions as an on-field leader with Auburn don't cause me to question whether or not his teammates respect him or buy into him; they obviously do.
What I think is that Cam's attitude as currently portrayed won't prevent him from getting his first chance with an NFL team, but it might prevent him from getting a second chance. The Eagles shopped Mike Vick around the NFL for a conditional fourth round pick and had no bites last offseason. Vince Young may not have much of a market whenever he gets released. We'll see how #7 finds the market whenever free agency begins, but he doesn't have much heat. Meanwhile a physically skilled quarterback with the (wh)right attitude in Alex Smith was drafted #1 overall, gets multiple chances in San Francisco, and will be the hottest commodity in free agency whenever it opens.
I don't that Cam Newton is going to come out of the box and win a Super Bowl. I think that Cam Newton would walk onto the field for the Cards as currently configured and start right away. I think if the Cards could add an Alex Smith (although if they draft Newton, he won't come here) or a Marc Bulger, Newton could sit on the bench but be the #2 come the end of training camp.
I think the Cards will pass on a QB in the first round this year not because there won't be a prospect there, but because the free agents-to-be aren't going to come if they know that they're going to have to look over their shoulder. That means we'll get a Trent Edwards or Tavaris Jackson.
