Is KK the right coach? Per the Athletic

[TRW]

I'm beginning to think that he's "just an offensive maverick who doesn’t check all the boxes required for an NFL head coach". I'm sure we will have another season to see.

 

[SoonerLou]

I just don't get why he can't put KM under Center more & have Drake or Edmonds lined up in the pistol? When you line up in the pistol, a LB can't get an easy read as to which way the RB is gonna go, causing a split second hesitation. That hesitation could be a game breaker? From there, bootleg/rollout, get KM on the right with no one to see over. He's lethal throwing in open space on the right side. Use motion, use the damn TE's. Instead he calls those stupid east/west screens for WR's that almost never gain anything. Cole missed a key block Saturday that would've sprung Larry for a long gainer on a slip screen. Wheel routes coming out of the backfield also. The play calling frustrates me at times. There's so much more he could use if he would just mix it up & use lots of different personnel groups.

I *think* he doesnt put him in the pistol because he's not as tall as Lamar. Better chance for tipped passes. However, yea the pistol has its advantages for Kyler as well.

 

[football karma]

Shannahan and McVay both immediately turned their offenses around and are arguably two of the best coaches in the NFL.

Shanahan wasnt successful until Garrapolo -- and was given a roster that was built by enduring the pain of QB-less seasons

McVay is probably the outlier in how he covered up Goff's deficiencies -- but he also benefitted from a roster that benefitted from Jeff Fisher's three year underachievement

 

[football karma]

one factor to consider: when comparing KK to Shanahan or McVay

while they each have probably the same number of total years coaching: Shanahan and McVay have the benefit of working under experienced coordinators and HCs at the NFL level and being able to make their mistake / gain the benefit of that experience

KK hasnt at the NFL level.

an example: the failed counter play noted in the Athletic article. Its possible that a McVay or Shanahan came up with something similar earlier in their careers -- and had their boss point out something like: "on a toss, the backside defender cant get there anyway, so he likely wont take the bait hard." So the concept gets tossed or altered.

For KK -- the person who has to tell him that works for him, not the other way around. I dont care how open minded a boss is -- thats a difficult dynamic. So: KK learns the hard way.

Also: i have wondered why Card WR screens rarely do much -- but i see other teams run them for at least moderate success. Its possible that for KK: running a given WR screen against the given D look always worked in college --

but his arent working in the NFL because his team doesnt execute them with required precision -- small tells, or whatever

so the question i have is: is the learning curve too steep? how long will these lessons take?

no question the guy is bright, is a super hard worker, and lives for football.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Since the defense is all over our wr screens it time to lineup in that formation pump the screen and one of the wr go deep. If they bite on the pump, our wr should be streaking down field for a big gain.

 

[PACardsFan]

It’s becoming more clear that Hopkins isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Granted, there was no preseason, but the dude is clueless at times. He’s still a physical stud, and adds a dimension this team needs badly. We need to fix the interior of our OL right NOW!

 

[SoonerLou]

Greg Cosell on the Packers, "McCarthy's offense was more matchup based. LaFleur's offense is more play design and scheme based."

Maybe Clements as the passing game coordinator just isnt giving Kliff what he needs.

 

[Chopper0080]

It’s becoming more clear that Hopkins isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Granted, there was no preseason, but the dude is clueless at times. He’s still a physical stud, and adds a dimension this team needs badly. We need to fix the interior of our OL right NOW!

Well, Hopkins is the Forbes list of 30 under 30 so he must sharper than you give him credit for.

 

[Chopper0080]

Greg Cosell on the Packers, "McCarthy's offense was more matchup based. LaFleur's offense is more play design and scheme based."

Maybe Clements as the passing game coordinator just isnt giving Kliff what he needs.

That is interesting you brought this up. That was a huge issue in Green Bay and with their WRs. They had to get open on their own. I forgot about that and I agree that I wonder if it is an issue in AZ.

 

[daves]

Since the defense is all over our wr screens it time to lineup in that formation pump the screen and one of the wr go deep. If they bite on the pump, our wr should be streaking down field for a big gain.

It's LONG overdue!!!

Since none of the WRs seems capable of blocking the screen properly anyway, just use Kirk or KJ to "block". Put Hopkins alone on the other side, as usual, to draw the deep help to his side. The DBs on the screen side will not be the least bit surprised when Kirk/KJ misses the block, which will allow the WR to slip past the defender for an easy TD!

...dave

 

[juza76]

It's LONG overdue!!!

Since none of the WRs seems capable of blocking the screen properly anyway, just use Kirk or KJ to "block". Put Hopkins alone on the other side, as usual, to draw the deep help to his side. The DBs on the screen side will not be the least bit surprised when Kirk/KJ misses the block, which will allow the WR to slip past the defender for an easy TD!

...dave

Our receiving unit is so bad
Speed, catching, blocking, breaking tackles
Murray missed open guys yes, but if u watch any NFL games, there are always guys open and missed even by better and expert qb's
I just would love if Murray has more weapons, like the 75% of the nfl team

 

[Russ Smith]

I just don't get why he can't put KM under Center more & have Drake or Edmonds lined up in the pistol? When you line up in the pistol, a LB can't get an easy read as to which way the RB is gonna go, causing a split second hesitation. That hesitation could be a game breaker? From there, bootleg/rollout, get KM on the right with no one to see over. He's lethal throwing in open space on the right side. Use motion, use the damn TE's. Instead he calls those stupid east/west screens for WR's that almost never gain anything. Cole missed a key block Saturday that would've sprung Larry for a long gainer on a slip screen. Wheel routes coming out of the backfield also. The play calling frustrates me at times. There's so much more he could use if he would just mix it up & use lots of different personnel groups.

Just a nitpick a true pistol the QB is not under center he's about 4 yards behind C, not under it but not in a shotgun. I only know this because UCLA ran it when Hundley was there and they modified it some when Rosen got there. Everyone said they copied it from Nevada Reno and Chris Ault who started using it when he had Colin K, in fact Harbaugh used it some with the 49ers. The really interesting thing to me is Ault didn't invent it either, he got it from a HS coach in Mill Valley. Had to google the name, Michael Taylor. Apparently he had a QB he really liked in the gun but his center was having issues with the long snaps so they moved the QB up a few yards and then realized it allowed them to put the RB behind him instead of off to one side or the other, for the very reason you said, to make it harder for the defense to figure out which way the RB was going to go on run plays.

I actually think we used it against the Eagles I remember Talib pointing it out.

 

[Russ Smith]

Since the defense is all over our wr screens it time to lineup in that formation pump the screen and one of the wr go deep. If they bite on the pump, our wr should be streaking down field for a big gain.

Said it the other day I'm convinced we have a tell that the whole NFL knows about and we don't. We never run a good screen they know it's coming every time.

Lofton said the WR's aren't selling it well they have to act like they are going forward before they stop and come back for the screen but ours don't.

 

[KYCardFan]

Kliff often make panic calls when under game pressure

Deer in headlights look, nothing about his demeanor evokes emotion

Very Robo like

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Just a nitpick a true pistol the QB is not under center he's about 4 yards behind C, not under it but not in a shotgun. I only know this because UCLA ran it when Hundley was there and they modified it some when Rosen got there. Everyone said they copied it from Nevada Reno and Chris Ault who started using it when he had Colin K, in fact Harbaugh used it some with the 49ers. The really interesting thing to me is Ault didn't invent it either, he got it from a HS coach in Mill Valley. Had to google the name, Michael Taylor. Apparently he had a QB he really liked in the gun but his center was having issues with the long snaps so they moved the QB up a few yards and then realized it allowed them to put the RB behind him instead of off to one side or the other, for the very reason you said, to make it harder for the defense to figure out which way the RB was going to go on run plays.

I actually think we used it against the Eagles I remember Talib pointing it out.

It would be the I-formation under center. To me, 4 yards behind the center is still shotgun, maybe a couple yards closer to the los than a traditional one. KK needs to mix it up. I love it when he does it.

 

[BritCard]

one factor to consider: when comparing KK to Shanahan or McVay

while they each have probably the same number of total years coaching: Shanahan and McVay have the benefit of working under experienced coordinators and HCs at the NFL level and being able to make their mistake / gain the benefit of that experience

KK hasnt at the NFL level.

an example: the failed counter play noted in the Athletic article. Its possible that a McVay or Shanahan came up with something similar earlier in their careers -- and had their boss point out something like: "on a toss, the backside defender cant get there anyway, so he likely wont take the bait hard." So the concept gets tossed or altered.

For KK -- the person who has to tell him that works for him, not the other way around. I dont care how open minded a boss is -- thats a difficult dynamic. So: KK learns the hard way.

Also: i have wondered why Card WR screens rarely do much -- but i see other teams run them for at least moderate success. Its possible that for KK: running a given WR screen against the given D look always worked in college --

but his arent working in the NFL because his team doesnt execute them with required precision -- small tells, or whatever

so the question i have is: is the learning curve too steep? how long will these lessons take?

no question the guy is bright, is a super hard worker, and lives for football.

I'm pretty sure that's what Clements is there for, at least, that was what was said back when Kliff was hired.

There was a lot of talk from Kliff himself of Clement (and Kugler) telling him which plays would and wouldn't work in the NFL.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Our receiving unit is so bad
Speed, catching, blocking, breaking tackles
Murray missed open guys yes, but if u watch any NFL games, there are always guys open and missed even by better and expert qb's
I just would love if Murray has more weapons, like the 75% of the nfl team

We can improve, obviously, but 75% of the League do not have better-passing stats than the Cards.

 

[BritCard]

We can improve, obviously, but 75% of the League do not have better-passing stats than the Cards.

Funny that. People go on about our offense rank and Kyler's passing stats like he's throwing to himself.

They don't get any scheme help either.

 

[cardncubfan]

It’s becoming more clear that Hopkins isn’t exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Granted, there was no preseason, but the dude is clueless at times. He’s still a physical stud, and adds a dimension this team needs badly. We need to fix the interior of our OL right NOW!

Huh? Did I miss the sarcasm?

 

[football karma]

names to think about as a "senior offensive assistant":

1. Dirk Koetter. College experience at Boise State and ASU -- Boise St didnt run air raid, but ran a wide open passing attack. Long time NFL offensive coordinator

2. Darrel Bevel. now interim HC in Det, but long time SEA offensive coordinator, so he would understand how to use a mobile QB

both guys are on a staff that is being changed over, so will be looking for work

 

[Jetstream Green]

We are about to find out, aren't we

 

[Cardsfan77]

Today’s game will go a long way with informing my opinion on this, needless to say.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

names to think about as a "senior offensive assistant":

1. Dirk Koetter. College experience at Boise State and ASU -- Boise St didnt run air raid, but ran a wide open passing attack. Long time NFL offensive coordinator

2. Darrel Bevel. now interim HC in Det, but long time SEA offensive coordinator, so he would understand how to use a mobile QB

both guys are on a staff that is being changed over, so will be looking for work

Interesting input.

One of these guys should really help correct a lot of the offensive mistakes.

 

[Chopper0080]

MAtt Campbell
Matt Eberflus
Pat Fitzgerald

all solid dudes