Is there a reason why we don't fire Kliff today?

[Cbus cardsfan]

Hard to disagree with this comment

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Take Bosa, suck again that year and grab Burrow. How nice would that have been?
I was against Bosa only because they were talking about him playing at OLB(shocking they'd draft someone for a different position) and he'd never played there. I wanted Williams.

Plus, no one had the meteoric rise on Burrow. Think he was 4th-5th round prospect heading into that year. But, still, the Cards would likely be in alot better spot these days if that happened.

 

[gimpy]

Do you really think the Cards would be in a better spot? Especially with the Big 3 on here that we complain about continuously non stop? I don't know.

 

[SoonerLou]

Warner and Palmer seemed to do alright.

Both were 34 when they joined the Cardinals. Both didnt really figure it out (with the Cards) until they were 35 or 36.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Do you really think the Cards would be in a better spot? Especially with the Big 3 on here that we complain about continuously non stop? I don't know.

That's the thing right there isn't it Gimpy?

It's not "take player x as they currently are, put them on our roster, and then decided if we'd be better" Instead it's take player x, who then spends x number of years being developed by the cardinals coaching staff and managed by the Cardinals' front office, assess how good he would be, and then decide if we'd be better with them. Think VJ would have developed Bosa into the player he is now? Ha! Probably would have him playing nose guard!

If you took Pat Mahomes today, and put him in our offense, sure we'd be better. Unquestionably.

But what would Mahomes be after spending four years within the Cardinals organization with Keim as GM and Kingsbury and his gang as Pat's coaches (what a horrifying thought that is btw)?

Would Mahomes be the well-oiled MVP machine he is currently? Or would he be less?

The Cardinals are about 50% of the way towards screwing up Murray and thus ruining a chance at a championship. Let's pray they pull up out of the nose dive they're currently in and salvage the remainder of Murray's career. K1 is still young, only 25 or so! There's still hope!

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Both were 34 when they joined the Cardinals. Both didnt really figure it out (with the Cards) until they were 35 or 36.

True but it doesn’t seem Murray puts in the effort to be great and the organization is an easy scapegoat.
I think guys like Mahomes, Brady, Burrow are going to be great no matter what because they’re self motivated.

Burrow went to the Bengals. Not exactly the model of a great franchise.

 

[slanidrac16]

One of the biggest problems with Murray is he has NEVER been made to toe the line. He’s been coddled and convinced he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He’s enjoyed success at every level and was/is not mentally ready or prepared for the giant step up to the NFL.
Reality has smacked him right in the nose and he has taken the path that his lack of success is because of outside factors.
Here Kyler, we got you Hollywood. Here Kyler we got your buddy Cody Ford. Hey Kyler don’t worry about going under center because we know you don’t like doing that. Hey Kyler, running late for a meeting, no problem bruh.
This won’t change under Kingsbury. Not only Kyler but this team needs a head coach that demand every players best.

 

[TJ]

TJ, God bless him, is sometimes just for the lolz for this difficult time. He wanted Minshew.

And I dont think we would have been bad enough to get Burrow, Tua or Herbert unfortunately.

Never said I actively wanted Minshew. I made a comment that Minshew's rookie stats towards the end of the season were close to Kyler's, which wasnt wrong. Apparently, you cant make those assessments here without this board engaging in sweeping generalizations. Speaks more to the Pavlovian reactions of the Kyler-stans than me.

Take Bosa, suck again that year and grab Burrow. How nice would that have been?
I was against Bosa only because they were talking about him playing at OLB(shocking they'd draft someone for a different position) and he'd never played there. I wanted Williams.

Plus, no one had the meteoric rise on Burrow. Think he was 4th-5th round prospect heading into that year. But, still, the Cards would likely be in alot better spot these days if that happened.

Yeah had we drafted Bosa and Rosen still didn’t develop, we would’ve been in prime position to draft Burrow, Herbert, Tua etc in 2020. And, our pass rush situation would be fine right now. If Murray doesn’t return to form next season, he could become the most expensive bust in NFL
history.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You'd have to say Harris not getting the job would be a huge slap in the face for him.

Worked his way up through scouting since 2008 and had been in a senior FO role since 2013.

If that was any of us and our boss brought some outside dude in to take a job we should get we'd be pissed. I'd expect Harris to leave.

Everyone seems pretty sure that Harris (or AW) will be Keim 2.0. I've said the same thing in the past. But there's really no reason to think that.

Would Harris make the same draft picks as Keim? I doubt it. Harris is there in the room but I've never seen him contribute to the discussion.

Is he going to to run things the way Keim did when it got Keim fired? No.

He's his own man with his own ways. Yes he learned the procedural details inside this org but those details are largely the same league wide.

Has he worked in any other front office? If no, bye. Keim is all he knows. Different opinions and thoughts? Sure. But only concrete experience is with a mess. No good mentoring from anyone. Let’s put it this way: would any other team in the league consider him for their same position? No? Then no.

 

[SoonerLou]

Never said I actively wanted Minshew. I made a comment that Minshew's rookie stats towards the end of the season were close to Kyler's, which wasnt wrong. Apparently, you cant make those assessments here without this board engaging in sweeping generalizations. Speaks more to the Pavlovian reactions of the Kyler-stans than me.


Yeah had we drafted Bosa and Rosen still didn’t develop, we would’ve been in prime position to draft Burrow, Herbert, Tua etc in 2020. And, our pass rush situation would be fine right now. If Murray doesn’t return to form next season, he could become the most expensive bust in NFL
history.

Bless your heart.

 

[DVontel]

Bless your heart.

Typical TJ.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The problem I have with the "We can't run the offense" or "The offense sucks" takes is that it's the 4th year of the offense. And those Pro Bowls and that extension, and indeed a winning record at the start of this season all came from this offense.

I can believe it doesn't work right now due to injuries because we can't run the ball due to decimated interior O line, but normally I don't think it's a problem.

I thought the quote on Kugler was interesting. I said yesterday that our run game used to be good and it made Kenyon Drake look great but since Kugler took over it's sucked. He took over last year and since last year it's been garbage.

4.7 YPA the last year Kliff ran it down to 4.2 last year and 4.3 this year. So it was interesting that Kliff wanted to fire him and Mike blocked it according to this article.

I wonder if Kliff jumped on the excuse in Mexico without feeding it up the chain?

Uh, when exactly did we have “a winning record at the start of this season?” Never.

 

[TRW]

Uh, when exactly did we have “a winning record at the start of this season?” Never.

True. Best they were was 1-1 after game 2. LOL

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Reading the article Kliff comes off the best.

Mike is refusing to fire people and handcuffing Kliff. Kyler has a nearly toxic negative attitude and is turning up late for meetings. Keim has been absent and difficult to Kliff to get hold of.

The only real criticism of Kliff in there is that he's too nice to players.

You’re really on a gaslighting role today. There’s been a single comment about kyler showing up late for ONE meeting.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Reading the article Kliff comes off the best.

Mike is refusing to fire people and handcuffing Kliff. Kyler has a nearly toxic negative attitude and is turning up late for meetings. Keim has been absent and difficult to Kliff to get hold of.

The only real criticism of Kliff in there is that he's too nice to players.

Also I love the fact that you interpret doesn’t hold players accountable as being too nice.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Imagine being drafted #1, demanding a top QB contract without winning a playoff game, and showing up late for practices.

You too chopper? A single practice. Let’s not start making stuff up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Nobody looks good but what bad in it about Kliff?

His players like him but he won't ball them out? Not great but hardly terrible.

Even the rift with Murray is made out to be more on Murray than Kliff talking about his frustration with him, bad body langauge, showing up late etc

A coach that doesn’t hold players accountable may be the worst coach in the league. As was stated in the article, it possess off the players doing their jobs. You know, the ones that actually want to win and put in the time and effort.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Never said I actively wanted Minshew. I made a comment that Minshew's rookie stats towards the end of the season were close to Kyler's, which wasnt wrong. Apparently, you cant make those assessments here without this board engaging in sweeping generalizations. Speaks more to the Pavlovian reactions of the Kyler-stans than me.


Yeah had we drafted Bosa and Rosen still didn’t develop, we would’ve been in prime position to draft Burrow, Herbert, Tua etc in 2020. And, our pass rush situation would be fine right now. If Murray doesn’t return to form next season, he could become the most expensive bust in NFL
history.

fyi TJ (Captain Steal Yo' Girl!) "Bless your heart" is what people in Texas and Oklahoma say when... um... when you're,,, not doing too good.. lol..

 

[Stout]

One of the biggest problems with Murray is he has NEVER been made to toe the line. He’s been coddled and convinced he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He’s enjoyed success at every level and was/is not mentally ready or prepared for the giant step up to the NFL.
Reality has smacked him right in the nose and he has taken the path that his lack of success is because of outside factors.
Here Kyler, we got you Hollywood. Here Kyler we got your buddy Cody Ford. Hey Kyler don’t worry about going under center because we know you don’t like doing that. Hey Kyler, running late for a meeting, no problem bruh.
This won’t change under Kingsbury. Not only Kyler but this team needs a head coach that demand every players best.

Preach on.

 

[DVontel]

I wish there for was a stat to dictate the number of times being under center & being from shotgun between QBs.

I occasionally see McCoy go under center just like I do Kyler, which is maybe like 3-4 times a game.

Same thing probably gonna with McSorley too.

We’re really gonna see if it’s a Kyler problem or Kliff problem once Kliff is out of here next season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I wish there for was a stat to dictate the number of times being under center & being from shotgun between QBs.

I occasionally see McCoy go under center just like I do Kyler, which is maybe like 3-4 times a game.

Same thing probably gonna with McSorley too.

We’re really gonna see if it’s a Kyler problem or Kliff problem once Kliff is out of here next season.

I agree, but do you really think that will be the case on the board? There will be plenty of people here that will excuse anything from Kyler next year and say he deserves another year post ACL to see what he can really do.

 

[DVontel]

I agree, but do you really think that will be the case on the board? There will be plenty of people here that will excuse anything from Kyler next year and say he deserves another year post ACL to see what he can really do.

I only see two people that excuse any & everything from Kyler. It’s not like he has a big fan/stanbase here.

 

[kerouac9]

I wish there for was a stat to dictate the number of times being under center & being from shotgun between QBs.

I occasionally see McCoy go under center just like I do Kyler, which is maybe like 3-4 times a game.

Same thing probably gonna with McSorley too.

We’re really gonna see if it’s a Kyler problem or Kliff problem once Kliff is out of here next season.

Do you mean tracks shotgun vs under center or what? I know FO has done a full analysis of shotgun vs center using DVOA and IIRC shotgun is better for passing and running.

Pro-football-reference tracks snaps from shotgun vs under center for each player under “advanced stats”.

I only see two people that excuse any & everything from Kyler. It’s not like he has a big fan/stanbase here.

Yeah, where is nashman?

 

[DVontel]

Do you mean tracks shotgun vs under center or what? I know FO has done a full analysis of shotgun vs center using DVOA and IIRC shotgun is better for passing and running.

Pro-football-reference tracks snaps from shotgun vs under center for each player under “advanced stats”.

Yup, but is there a player-specific category?

 

[TJ]

fyi TJ (Captain Steal Yo' Girl!) "Bless your heart" is what people in Texas and Oklahoma say when... um... when you're,,, not doing too good.. lol..

Oh I know what it means. But considering the poster, I couldn’t care less

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TJ, God bless him, is sometimes just for the lolz for this difficult time. He wanted Minshew.

And I dont think we would have been bad enough to get Burrow, Tua or Herbert unfortunately.

No? Coming off a season where we picked #1 and our QB would’ve been . . . Josh Rosen? We may have gotten the #1 pick again.