Is there a reason why we don't fire Kliff today?

[kerouac9]

If you squint your eyes at Kliff, you might be able to see giving him another year.

But does anyone really think he's ever going to coach this team to a championship? With his play-calling and game management and all the penalties? Even you @BritCard? If not, then what's the point?

Because sometimes you fall into a championship, even if you're not Bill Belicheck.

I think that the question you ask yourself is "can this guy consistently get us into the playoffs?" I thought that was true of Kliff until the first quarter or so of this year. Now I don't.

 

[SoonerLou]

Someone is getting fired, had enough of it, or preparing for a tough offseason. @Chopper0080

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Nice speech as well though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Basically, if you are supporting Bidwill, Keim, Kliff, Vance, or Kyler, you are an idiot because they are all a mess. It really comes down to which archors we can get rid of and which we can't. Likely the next GM and coach will have similar issues with Kyler and Michael and they will get fired as well when the team recognizes that Kyler isn't it and has to start over...again.

Yup. EVERY LEADER, on the field, sidelines and in the front office is crap for a myriad of reasons, IMO.

Good thing they all got five year extensions that are likely going to hinder us for the next two or three years, whether that’s because Kyler’s contract kills our cap or because Bidwill’s Penny pinching ass skimps on GM/HC replacements having to pay two of them at each spot for the next five years.

 

[Stout]

I think KK will, undeservedly, get another year and Keim will be the one gone. I can see the spin coming already. Injuries, Keim's health, Kugler distraction, etc.

Bidwill is always talking about the "cardinal way and cardinal decisions" whatever that means. I think Harris/Wilson will be the GM duo and some position coaches will be let go. Other than that, status quo for the spinned reasons above.

So we're going to continue sucking. Yay.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think this fundamentally misunderstands the jobs of a college and pro head coach.

Riley was a great recruiter and great with boosters. That's why he was able to dominate a bush-league conference like the Big XII and then immediately get embarrassed when he played a similarly talented opponent in the playoff.

No.

Look how he immediately elevated USC into playoff contention, without the benefit of any previous recruiting classes. Yes, he took with him the heisman winning QB from OU, but that's what I'm saying. He gets the most out of his offensive players, is an excellent offensive innovator, and he is otherwise an excellent CEO of a team. I don't think Williams wins the heisman (probably doesn't even go to NY) if Caleb stays at OU this past year.

To me, Riley's immediate success at USC, a program that has been an after-thought since the days of Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush, is proof that he's an excellent coach. I'll give you the last word if you want.

 

[DVontel]

I have no way of knowing. But if he did, it would have been behind closed doors. I saw it many times over the years. Praise in public, criticize in private.

It’s a hypothetical “Yes” or “No” question dude.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think this fundamentally misunderstands the jobs of a college and pro head coach.

Riley was a great recruiter and great with boosters. That's why he was able to dominate a bush-league conference like the Big XII and then immediately get embarrassed when he played a similarly talented opponent in the playoff.

Yeah...this is why some people were critical of Kyler's production at Oklahoma and his win/loss record because that university has such a huge advantage over almost every other university in the country. There are probably 10 colleges that have comparable talent or better than Oklahoma when they have a decent coach who can recruit.

 

[Chopper0080]

Someone is getting fired, had enough of it, or preparing for a tough offseason. @Chopper0080

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Nice speech as well though.

Kyler demanding a trade would be peak Cardinals at this point.

and yes, this has showed me who Kyler really is.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Riley learned up Bob Stoops. Kliff, unfortunately, learned under Kevin Sumlin.

Inb4 K9 says Sumlin learned under Stoops too, lol.

Riley had Kyler battling it out with Austin Kendall till the very end until Kyler showed complete mastery of the offense. He wasnt going to let him skate on talent.


Still I think Kliff picked up some casual ways from Sumlin. Still I think he can work here if fix certain spots on the roster.

What? What does the bolded part mean exactly?

You think Kliff can win a ring here? Or get us to the playoffs once every five years?

As it stands right now, would you fire him at the end of the season @SoonerLou?

 

[Chopper0080]

No.

Look how he immediately elevated USC into playoff contention, without the benefit of any previous recruiting classes. Yes, he took with him the heisman winning QB from OU, but that's what I'm saying. He gets the most out of his offensive players, is an excellent offensive innovator, and he is otherwise an excellent CEO of a team. I don't think Williams wins the heisman (probably doesn't even go to NY) if Caleb stays at OU this past year.

To me, Riley's immediate success at USC, a program that has been an after-thought since the days of Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush, is proof that he's an excellent coach. I'll give you the last word if you want.

It is USC. Even when they are down they have great talent. Add in a good coach and they are a national power again. College football isn't too tough to figure out.

 

[TJ]

Riley learned up Bob Stoops. Kliff, unfortunately, learned under Kevin Sumlin.

Inb4 K9 says Sumlin learned under Stoops too, lol.

Riley had Kyler battling it out with Austin Kendall till the very end until Kyler showed complete mastery of the offense. He wasnt going to let him skate on talent.


Still I think Kliff picked up some casual ways from Sumlin. Still I think he can work here if fix certain spots on the roster.

JFC. Please don’t ever utter the name “Sumlin” on this board ever again

 

[SoonerLou]

Kyler demanding a trade would be peak Cardinals at this point.

and yes, this has showed me who Kyler really is.

Dont forget he's Kliff's agent as well. So it could be just trying to serve two masters thats getting to him or him having to pick one or the other.

But yea that tweet reads different now.

 

[SoonerLou]

What? What does the bolded part mean exactly?

You think Kliff can win a ring here? Or get us to the playoffs once every five years?

As it stands right now, would you fire him at the end of the season @SoonerLou?

Im not sure we'll have better choices tbh...

I fear a Jim Tomsula like hiring and essentially killing Kyler's value for good ala Kaep in San Fran.

I'd rather hope this is just a bump in the road that can be fixed then watch it turn into an outright disaster.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yeah...this is why some people were critical of Kyler's production at Oklahoma and his win/loss record because that university has such a huge advantage over almost every other university in the country. There are probably 10 colleges that have comparable talent or better than Oklahoma when they have a decent coach who can recruit.

With all due respect Chopper, I think you're misunderstanding what happened at OU during the Mayfield/Murray/Hurts era. OU's defense was bad, even historically bad, during this time frame. Riley's group won shoot-outs, nail-biting shootouts, because the defense couldn't stop a nosebleed. Go look at how many OU defensive players were drafted during that era. Not many. No. Overall, OU did not have some kind of massive talent edge over other teams.

What you do see however, it quarterbacks falling all over themselves to play for him. Are you and K9 telling me that Mayfield, Murray, Hurts and Williams all transfered to play for a "great with boosters" guy? come on. No. Riley is a wicked QB whisperer with advanced offensive schemes and is an above average play caller. Not so great on the big stage, but if you don't think he's close to an offensive football genius, then your kidding yourself.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Im not sure we'll have better choices tbh...

I fear a Jim Tomsula like hiring and essentially killing Kyler's value for good ala Kaep in San Fran.

I'd rather hope this is just a bump in the road that can be fixed then watch it turn into an outright disaster.

I get that 100%. So make VJ the caretaker for a year if necessary. But get Kliff the heck out of here.

I think in his first couple of years with us Kliff let it all hang out, he was just himself, and didn't overthink things. He was so new to the pro game he didn't know what he didn't know, and so he let the mad scientist stuff type flow.

Now I think think all of that has been corrupted. It's like an idealist politician going to D.C. and getting beaten down by the political machine. That's what I think has happened to Kliff. He's been devoured by the NFL culture. Doesn't happen to everybody, but I think it happened to him.

 

[kerouac9]

No.

Look how he immediately elevated USC into playoff contention, without the benefit of any previous recruiting classes. Yes, he took with him the heisman winning QB from OU, but that's what I'm saying. He gets the most out of his offensive players, is an excellent offensive innovator, and he is otherwise an excellent CEO of a team. I don't think Williams wins the heisman (probably doesn't even go to NY) if Caleb stays at OU this past year.

To me, Riley's immediate success at USC, a program that has been an after-thought since the days of Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush, is proof that he's an excellent coach. I'll give you the last word if you want.

The Pac 12 is also a garbage conference. What are you even talking about here? Don't think USC is in the playoffs -- they couldn't even win their conference.

It is USC. Even when they are down they have great talent. Add in a good coach and they are a national power again. College football isn't too tough to figure out.

LOL Crimson here acting like USC is Washington State. It's USC. They're in the middle of one of the two greatest recruiting areas in the country. Riley has had his fingers in there for years, but now he can get in his car and visit SoCal five stars instead of hauling them out and pretending like Norman is nice.

With all due respect Chopper, I think you're misunderstanding what happened at OU during the Mayfield/Murray/Hurts era. OU's defense was bad, even historically bad, during this time frame. Riley's group won shoot-outs, nail-biting shootouts, because the defense couldn't stop a nosebleed. Go look at how many OU defensive players were drafted during that era. Not many. No. Overall, OU did not have some kind of massive talent edge over other teams.

What you do see however, it quarterbacks falling all over themselves to play for him. Are you and K9 telling me that Mayfield, Murray, Hurts and Williams all transfered to play for a "great with boosters" guy? come on. No. Riley is a wicked QB whisperer with advanced offensive schemes and is an above average play caller. Not so great on the big stage, but if you don't think he's close to an offensive football genius, then your kidding yourself.

Cool. Who was the second-best team in the Big XII during that time?

Riley is Polished Mike Leach. His QBs get accolades because they play at name-brand schools. There's a reason that Jalen Hurts didn't get drafted in the first round. Riley is a great recruiter and great with boosters/admin. Mike Leach (and Kliff Kingsbury) are indifferent on both accounts. The reason why Riley is viewed as an innovator is because he's doing Mike Leach stuff with five stars instead of Gardner Minshew.

 

[SoonerLou]

I get that 100%. So make VJ the caretaker for a year if necessary. But get Kliff the heck out of here.

I think in his first couple of years with us Kliff let it all hang out, he was just himself, and didn't overthink things. He was so new to the pro game he didn't know what he didn't know, and so he let the mad scientist stuff type flow.

Now I think think all of that has been corrupted. It's like an idealist politician going to D.C. and getting beaten down by the political machine. That's what I think has happened to Kliff. He's been devoured by the NFL culture. Doesn't happen to everybody, but I think it happened to him.

That sorta is the Tomsula route.

Get rid the of the brains behind it. Hiring an inhouse defensive guy. He then promotes a Cam Turner to OC and suddenly we're screwed.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[MaoTosiFanClub]

Zero chance Kliff walks away from the money. And regarding Riley, that dude can flat out coach.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

And knives are out big time now. Season just needs to mercifully end.

What a mess MB created.

 

[SoonerLou]

This is where AZ media sucks. Did or will anyone ask the HC about his QB being late for practice? Has it happened before? Was this communicated prior to him being late?

 

[Cheesebeef]

jebus... this is just not a coach, by any stretch of the imagination. He won't critique players in public... fine. different strokes for different folks with coaches. But he won't actually pinpoint specific players' problems/mistakes in private either? Talks more in generalities?

A coach who can't criticize players in public is one thing, but one who won't hold them accountable behind the scenes either isn't a coach... he's a bad freaking babysitter that just wants the kids to like him even as they're throwing crap against the walls and calling him a douche.

Kliff Kingsbury doesn’t call out players publicly or privately

His desire to avoid confrontation with players doesn't always work, according to a former Cardinals player.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This team doesn’t listen or follow KK at all. Watch the hard knocks beginnings and you’ll see all you need to know.

When the team is in the meeting room at the beginning of every show it looks like a bunch of zombies. There’s no attention to anyone, no emotion, and they look like they want to be anywhere but there.

Other than JJ or Budda trying to hype the team, there’s zero emotion.

 

[kerouac9]

This team doesn’t listen or follow KK at all. Watch the hard knocks beginnings and you’ll see all you need to know.

When the team is in the meeting room at the beginning of every show it looks like a bunch of zombies. There’s no attention to anyone, no emotion, and they look like they want to be anywhere but there.

Other than JJ or Budda trying to hype the team, there’s zero emotion.

They always look like that though. Every season.