Is there a reason why we don't fire Kliff today?

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kyler has been asked a number of times in pressers if there was any issue between him and Kliff and he's always been very clear that there isn't.

I agree that if there is, there isn't much choice and Kliff should go. But still likely after next season. They aren't going to rush Kyler back and RG3 him. They are going to give him a long period of rehab to feel fully confident in running on his knee. Especially as he's frequently been injured by the most limited of contact. I don't expect to see Kyler before game 6 and I don't expect him to be close to himself until at least game 10.

If they do decide to stick with Kliff there needs to be other coaching changes. It's time for Vance to go. I think he's done well in spots but his defense is clearly limiting talented players. Bill Davis needs to go. He's a talant drain on the whole LB room. Cam Turner needs to go, he's pure dog ****. Embarrasingly bad on Hard Knocks.

I’m surprised anyone makes any determination about any coach based on hard knocks. First, we rarely get any film on how the coaches devise strategy, teach strategy, or teach technique, and when we do it’s a snippet, and for turner it’s just been one-liner here or there. There’s no substance there. Odd data to base canning a guy.

 

[BritCard]

I'll bet on HARRIS as the new GM and KK and Vance getting another year.

You'd have to say Harris not getting the job would be a huge slap in the face for him.

Worked his way up through scouting since 2008 and had been in a senior FO role since 2013.

If that was any of us and our boss brought some outside dude in to take a job we should get we'd be pissed. I'd expect Harris to leave.

Everyone seems pretty sure that Harris (or AW) will be Keim 2.0. I've said the same thing in the past. But there's really no reason to think that.

Would Harris make the same draft picks as Keim? I doubt it. Harris is there in the room but I've never seen him contribute to the discussion.

Is he going to to run things the way Keim did when it got Keim fired? No.

He's his own man with his own ways. Yes he learned the procedural details inside this org but those details are largely the same league wide.

 

[Stout]

You'd have to say Harris not getting the job would be a huge slap in the face for him.

Worked his way up through scouting since 2008 and had been in a senior FO role since 2013.

If that was any of us and our boss brought some outside dude in to take a job we should get we'd be pissed. I'd expect Harris to leave.

Uh, if we go outside, I want a clean sweep and they had all better leave. It shouldn't be their choice to stay.

 

[BritCard]

Uh, if we go outside, I want a clean sweep and they had all better leave. It shouldn't be their choice to stay.

Obviously. It would always be down to the new GM but the new GM would likely want him to stay. At least initially.

You can't just magic up 20 front office personnel in your first stint as GM. It takes years to turn over a staff and nobody wants to jettison talented people arbritrarily.

For example Joe Douglas Jet's staff is still almost exactly the same staff that was there before. Even his assistant GM.

100% there's no clean sweep so you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Stout]

Obviously. It would always be down to the new GM but the new GM would likely want him to stay. At least initially.

You can't just magic up 20 front office personnel in your first stint as GM. It takes years to turn over a staff and nobody wants to jettison talented people arbritrarily.

For example Joe Douglas Jet's staff is still almost exactly the same staff that was there before. Even his assistant GM.

100% there's no clean sweep so you're going to be disappointed.

I get you. You framed it as if worried that he would leave and as his choice to leave or stay. That's what I was responding to. I would expect significant change with a few stragglers, certainly not almost the totally same staff.

 

[schutd]

Something wrong with warning a fellow poster? I didn’t call anybody out by name.

Yes, because that's what that was...

 

[pemory09]

If KK were let go by Sunday it would be a nice Christmas present to Cards fans. Just sayin’.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Does that article take into account kliff’s time management? Putting yourself in a position where you may need two scores may be the “right” call statistically for most scenarios, but virtually never for kliff.

I agree and would also like to add that there was plenty of time left on the clock to get the ball back and score. After the failed 2 point conversion the defense made what appeared to be a business decision and let them kill more clock, as they knew at that point the game is over. If they do kick maybe that energizes your defense to go out and get that 8th sack. I get the logic and the math, I just don't agree due to the phycological affect it could have had on the team.

 

[BritCard]

I agree and would also like to add that there was plenty of time left on the clock to get the ball back and score. After the failed 2 point conversion the defense made what appeared to be a business decision and let them kill more clock, as they knew at that point the game is over. If they do kick maybe that energizes your defense to go out and get that 8th sack. I get the logic and the math, I just don't agree due to the phycological affect it could have had on the team.

We didn't want to win though did we?

 

[slanidrac16]

We didn't want to win though did we?

Lol. Not really. But it’s more of a testament of Kingsbury game management.

 

[BritCard]

Lol. Not really. But it’s more of a testament of Kingsbury game management.

I imagine he looked at it like this.

I have Trace McSorley at QB. I might not get within spitting distance of the EZ again. I'll go for 2 while I have a chance and hope the D can do something to turn the game with Rypien at QB.

Which is probably the correct way.

 

[pemory09]

More fuel to add to the fire.

Report: Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury 'Increasingly Distant' amid Cardinals Season — Bleacher Report

If it has seemed like Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury were on different pages for most of this season, there's a reason for that. Per ESPN's

apple.news

 

[Stout]

More fuel to add to the fire.

Report: Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury 'Increasingly Distant' amid Cardinals Season — Bleacher Report

If it has seemed like Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury were on different pages for most of this season, there's a reason for that. Per ESPN's

apple.news

A hapless coach with a whiny, sulking, underperforming QB. What could've gone wrong?

 

[kerouac9]

More fuel to add to the fire.

Report: Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury 'Increasingly Distant' amid Cardinals Season — Bleacher Report

If it has seemed like Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury were on different pages for most of this season, there's a reason for that. Per ESPN's

apple.news

Knives are out. Can anyone share the original E$PN feature? This is an intriguing quote, but the antecedent isn’t clear (typical poor Weinfuss writing):

Before Murray's injury, Kingsbury was described as 'extremely frustrated' with the quarterback per a team source, believing that his negativity, if not toxic, was 'starting to get to people' around the building," Fowler and Weinfuss wrote.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

This isn't surprising at all. Kyler takes no accountability for his crap play, which should frustrate any coach/ teammate. He's a coach killer... plain and simple.

 

[BritCard]

More fuel to add to the fire.

Report: Kyler Murray, Kliff Kingsbury 'Increasingly Distant' amid Cardinals Season — Bleacher Report

If it has seemed like Kyler Murray and Kliff Kingsbury were on different pages for most of this season, there's a reason for that. Per ESPN's

apple.news

Personally I like my kids to pass their driving test before I give them the keys to the car.

This is just another example of Kyler demanding something he hasn't earned. If you want more control you have to earn it by first learning to run the offense efficiently.

 

[BritCard]

Knives are out. Can anyone share the original E$PN feature? This is an intriguing quote, but the antecedent isn’t clear (typical poor Weinfuss writing):

Before Murray's injury, Kingsbury was described as 'extremely frustrated' with the quarterback per a team source, believing that his negativity, if not toxic, was 'starting to get to people' around the building," Fowler and Weinfuss wrote.

Its linked inthat article

'This is not sustainable': How Kliff Kingsbury's tenure with the Cardinals has gone wrong

Coach Kliff Kingsbury's job is in peril, as relationships with his owner, general manager and star quarterback all went sour in 2022.

www.espn.com

 

[BritCard]

Interesting on Kugler,

"A source close to Kingsbury said the coach wanted to fire offensive line coach/run game coordinator Sean Kugler well before he was dismissed last month for allegedly groping a woman before a game in Mexico City, a claim Kugler is disputing through NFL arbitration.

Kugler suddenly lost opportunities to contribute to offensive planning meetings months ago, according to a source close to Kugler, but the belief from multiple Cardinals sources was that Bidwill didn't want to pay Kugler's contract buyout. Kingsbury loyalists cite the situation as evidence of the coach's limited control in Arizona."

"He knows that it's not a situation that lends itself to him being happy and successful and at his best for that organization, which he wants to be," a source close to Kingsbury said. "They won't let him. They won't let him be great."

 

[BritCard]

This is key too,

"Kingsbury has been labeled a players' coach over the years by many on his staff and in the locker room. He's well liked and has support among his players. Conversely, Kingsbury's aversion to confrontation chafed some players at times.

As one longtime ex-Cardinals player said, Kingsbury's go-to line in meetings, especially after bad performances, was that "everybody has to play better." While that approach fosters good relations, the player said, calling out bad performances by name can be necessary at times.

"It's a very comfortable work environment, but he won't rip anybody, and if the head coach won't do it, it's hard for the offensive guard to do it," the player said. "I think that's some of what's gone on with the QB." A team source added that Kingsbury's personality doesn't lend to calling players out."

 

[kerouac9]

Its linked inthat article

'This is not sustainable': How Kliff Kingsbury's tenure with the Cardinals has gone wrong

Coach Kliff Kingsbury's job is in peril, as relationships with his owner, general manager and star quarterback all went sour in 2022.

www.espn.com

I know but I don't have ESPN Insider so I don't get the whole thing.

 

[DVontel]

If the head coach kissed my ass & always talked to me like a bro, I would love working with him too.

 

[BritCard]

I know but I don't have ESPN Insider so I don't get the whole thing.

Neither do I but I can see it all?

For those that can't see it here you go. It's juicy.

archive.ph

 

[SoonerLou]

This isn't surprising at all. Kyler takes no accountability for his crap play, which should frustrate any coach/ teammate. He's a coach killer... plain and simple.

Personally I like my kids to pass their driving test before I give them the keys to the car.

This is just another example of Kyler demanding something he hasn't earned. If you want more control you have to earn it by first learning to run the offense efficiently.

Actually dont have a problem with the quote. And I've been more of a KK defender than Kyler defender this year.

Running game has sort of sucked this year. If Im reading it right then yea I'd want my 4th year starter wanting more control of the offense. This leak would have me on the other side if it was accompanied with "Kyler wants more control of the offense without actually putting in more work". If its that then I side with KK.

 

[BritCard]

Actually dont have a problem with the quote. And I've been more of a KK defender than Kyler defender this year.

Running game has sort of sucked this year. If Im reading it right then yea I'd want my 4th year starter wanting more control of the offense. This leak would have me on the other side if it was accompanied with "Kyler wants more control of the offense without actually putting in more work". If its that then I side with KK.

We all want our 4th year starter to have more control of the offense. I'm sure Kliff would love it. He's not refusing him because he wants to. The article states that him going off script has caused problems and clearly Kliff doesn't trust him. Wasn't the game losing play vs Green Bay an audible that didn't work?

Control is earned, not given. And Kyler hasn't earned it. He should focus on learning to read defenses and going through progressions before he starts altering things at the line.

 

[kerouac9]

It's noticeable that Kliff isn't in the QB meetings as shown on Hard Knocks. We don't see the offensive team meetings like we see Vance talk to the defensive players, either.