Is this really necessary Kurt?

[Russ Smith]

I'm going to tend to believe Kurt on stuff like this, he's a timing guy and he's been doing it for so long that if he says they're running the wrong route, they probably are.

But that's a pretty common thing with QB's, it used to drive me crazy with Plummer he'd said a ball over the middle, get picked, and then start yelling at the WR when you could tell from the coaches reaction that it was a bad throw.

I've seen Kurt point at himself on more than one pick like "my bad" so I don't think he's going to be calling others out if it's his fault.

 

[Mitch]

I'm going to tend to believe Kurt on stuff like this, he's a timing guy and he's been doing it for so long that if he says they're running the wrong route, they probably are.

But that's a pretty common thing with QB's, it used to drive me crazy with Plummer he'd said a ball over the middle, get picked, and then start yelling at the WR when you could tell from the coaches reaction that it was a bad throw.

I've seen Kurt point at himself on more than one pick like "my bad" so I don't think he's going to be calling others out if it's his fault.

Perfectly put, Russ.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm going to tend to believe Kurt on stuff like this, he's a timing guy and he's been doing it for so long that if he says they're running the wrong route, they probably are.

But that's a pretty common thing with QB's, it used to drive me crazy with Plummer he'd said a ball over the middle, get picked, and then start yelling at the WR when you could tell from the coaches reaction that it was a bad throw.

I've seen Kurt point at himself on more than one pick like "my bad" so I don't think he's going to be calling others out if it's his fault.

It doesn't make him look any better with the quotes that he used. Like someone mentioned above, he should have just said, 'Our timing is off.' It makes Kurt seem holier than thou when he has not been sharp at all. He is missing on timing routes where the WR's appear to run the right routes too.

Not accepting any responsiblity and deflecting blame, warranted or not, does NOT create the chemistry that Whis is looking for.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

It doesn't make him look any better with the quotes that he used. Like someone mentioned above, he should have just said, 'Our timing is off.' It makes Kurt seem holier than thou when he has not been sharp at all. He is missing on timing routes where the WR's appear to run the right routes too.

Not accepting any responsiblity and deflecting blame, warranted or not, does NOT create the chemistry that Whis is looking for.

This is the point of the OP. I could care less if Warner is right or not. Everything is a hot mess with this team right now and he's pointing fingers. Yet when we are going to the Super Bowl he is eating up the adulation and all the goods that come with it. Think about it. Other then Fitz the entire story was KURT WARNER RESURRECTION last playoff run.

Just kind of eats at me I guess. People are going to think I am killing him becase it is Warner but I would have the same criticism if it was Matt back there saying the same thing. And we all know he would be getting crucified. I don't remember any quotes from Matt after the Oakland game last year like that.

We do this together?

I think not.

 

[seesred]

IMO the new defensive and offensive cordinators changes has a some impact. But I also believe that Kurt looks old or his body can't take anymore. He is suppose to be the best in picking apart a defense. His follow thru is very bad, he very rarley has put the pig skin in the hands of a reciver. Alot of very high throws. Throwing the ball right to the enemy. He just looks old to me. And to top it off he is not taking any blame at all. After the first game we will see if this is his team, or maybe someone else.


GBR
40

 

[IAWarnerFan]

On the plus side he gets Boldin and Breaston back for week 1 correct? Things have been ugly no doubt, but maybe having those two back will make a big difference.

 

[WisconsinCard]

It doesn't make him look any better with the quotes that he used. Like someone mentioned above, he should have just said, 'Our timing is off.' It makes Kurt seem holier than thou when he has not been sharp at all. He is missing on timing routes where the WR's appear to run the right routes too.

Not accepting any responsiblity and deflecting blame, warranted or not, does NOT create the chemistry that Whis is looking for.

I don't disagree with you but remember it is an emotional game. When you come off your emotions are flowing and during prseason games someone will come up and stick a mic in your face and usually you'll say the wrong thing. So I will give KW a pass on this one, I also don't think he would be talking about anyone of the big three.

 

[conraddobler]

First rule of being a leader.

Don't throw your teamates under the bus in public.

What Warner said could be completely true and he still shouldn't say it. That's my take on the whole shooting match.

My opinion is that he's sailing balls and flailing to prove it's not him, pre hurting his shoulder Matt didn't seem to have the same problem and if you look at a lot of Warners throws they're way worse than just bad timing, he's covering his butt IMO.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Wake me up when the regular season starts. I'll start worrying if we're 1-3.

 

[joeshmo]

Even if it is true I just really don't get this type of thing from a QB. When things gets tough he is the guy you look too and I thnk we are all in agreement that if Fitz, or Tim, or Reggie wanted to say something about Kurts lack of precision, time in the pocket, and fumbles and INT's this preseason they wouldn't be wrong there either.

I remember Peyton did something like this with his O-line a few years back after a frustrating playoff game and got lambasted (and that was a playoff game - not the preseason )and I haven't heard anything like that since from him.

Again I am not trying to pile on Kurt intentionally. Like everyone else I am hoping he pulls it together come next week.

But this isn't the first time this has happened. When things are going good he's slapping backs and everyone's best friends. But when/if things get tough........

I can see where you are coming from with this post, at least more so then your thread starting post. I got to agree.

 

[oaken1]

There is a difference between timing and correct routes,....Fitz, although so many love him, has had a history of poor route running. He just uses his athletic ability to make up for it a bit,...last year he showed improvement in his routes. Perhaps talking to the receivers one on one was not getting results,...so a vague comment to the press gets the WR's family and friends asking them if it is them who are running poor routes,...maybe provides some motivation to work a bit harder.... I dunno, we will see soon enough.

 

[JeffGollin]

Muchadoo...

Kurt is Kurt. Trying to read too much into what's behind what he may or may not say is kind of irrelevent, since he's either going to make plays or he's not (and his actual performance on the field will speak for itself, either positively or negatively).

The way I see it is that, in a healthy commuincations environment (where the focus is more on improving things than it is defending one's reputation or turf), there's nothing wrong with pointing out where you feel the train has gone off the tracks - in an effort to fix things.

In doing so, maybe Kurt is being a bit defensive (it's human nature and may just be a natural part of his MO). But maybe it's nothing more than an attempt to be constructive.

Also - Don't many routes contain sight-adjustment options (where the receiver breaks off, changes or lengthens his route "when he sees something?" When the receiver notices something funky in the coverage and the QB fails to pick it up (or vice versa) I can seen how they can wind up on different pages (so, to avoid these things, they need to talk about this stuff frequently and frankly). Maybe that's what's going on here.

 

[Doug]

The one thing that makes me feel the best about something like this when it happens is that I do know that coach WHIZ KNOWS who was at fault when the game film is seen.

Probably also knows right after the play is over also.So I don't think Warner would play the prima donna after last season if his guys are just missing the reads.

Its been well documented since Warner came to the CARDINALS that Fitz has lost weight and worked on his own route running to help Kurt as Warner was more use to the sharp routes Holt and Bruce ran in Louie.

Warner had to retrain himself in ARIZONA as his recievers were more physical and did'nt run the sharp routes he was used too in the past and he had to take more risks that they would come up with the ball being such physical recievers.I'm talking Just Fitz & Q on this.

Knowing we have'nt seen much if any of Q this offseason and also Breaston makes me feel much better.I know the timing was just off by a foot with those two guys when Warner was throwing to them.That we can fix.

Fitz is gonna face much more different coverages this season and have to step up to another level in how to beat them.So I hope he and Kurt will work on breaking the double and triple teams that are gonna come his way.Kurt cannot force the ball to anyone anymore.

His best thing he has always done is just to spread the ball around and get it to the open man,even if he is the fourth read.Warner did'nt have much time to read this pre-season also.Hope this pushes Gandy and Brown to work harder on picking up the blitz.

I noticed Wells has picked up his game this pre-season.Especially in run blocking.I'm very impressed.

Hope this is not a soap opera year with the quarterback position.It is very raw right now with so many wanting Matt to start his career yesterday and kick Warner to the curb right now.I can hear the GIANT RED WAVE calling for Kurts head already and it scares me.The offensive line needs to be taken out to eat every night Kurt.You better keep em' fed and happy with you or you'll be in a rocking chair back at the ranch real soon.

We do have some young guys in the backfield learning to pick up the blitz and this does'nt help things either.

Never thought of Kurt as being a holier than thou person.Thats too bad others are already thinking that way.Hope the writing isn't already on the wall.I would just ask for patience from the fans if things start slowly.I still expect to win a war with the whiners tho.

Its the defense I'm more worried about.Davis and Johnson are gonna have to contribute right away I think.Lets get back to the we do this together team we know we can be.

Too much talent on this team.Even on the Defense.Sometimes a team Captain has to rarely say something like this.I don't think this is a common occurance around the nest.Does anyone else think it is? We'll see when the team votes on this years captains.Maybe Fitz will be the one on offense or Q if the team is tired of Kurt.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Wake me up when the regular season starts. I'll start worrying if we're 1-3.

I have been saying for months that 1-2 is a very distinct possibility. I'd say that its better than 75% with the way we have played so far.

 

[legend]

Bickley and MJ discussed yesterday's practice being very sharp. - not a ball hit the turf for the starters. That's encouraging.

 

[Buckybird]

Bickley and MJ discussed yesterday's practice being very sharp. - not a ball hit the turf for the starters. That's encouraging.

It shouldn't its practice. Lets see what happens Sunday.

 

[Russ Smith]

I certainly bugs me that he wouldn't take some responsibility... even in the super bowl when Q's spacing (didn't line up wide enough) on the 99 yard pick-6, KW took responsibility... His demeanor seems different than last year.

...

I'm curious about this because apparently I'm a sadist and I'm watching the Superbowl for the first time on replay on NFL network (I can't believe they're showing Springsteen's halftime show).

On the play in question Boldin lined up outside of Fitz, at the snap we ran what is basically a pick play, PC term is a crossing route. Q slants inside, Fitz cuts outside to the corner. I don't see how you can say Q didn't line up wide enough because the fact is the "pick" worked, Boldin came free on the slant and Fitz appeared to be open too. The problem is Harrison didn't rush, he fell back into coverage and read Kurt's eyes(quick pass he looked left the whole way) and picked it. Great play by Harrison.

Immediately after the half ended they asked Whiz what happened and he said "obviously we made a bad throw there, and then we didn't get the guy down, you gotta get the guy down there." His initial reaction was that was a bad throw, I'd call it a bad read, he looked left the whole way so he never saw Harrison drop back. It was a classic zone blitz they acted like they were bringing everyone and just dropped a couple back.

Kurt played a terrific 2nd half and had an amazing year but I have now read several times that play blamed on Q and I just don't see it? Are people claiming because of where he lined up he tipped the play? Because the reality is Kurt has a choice there, he can throw the slant to Q or the fade to Fitz, he simply chose to throw the slant not realizing Harrison was there. We ran that play all year, Pittsburgh just had a great call and harrison made an amazing play.

 

[Pariah]

Are people claiming because of where he lined up he tipped the play?

Warner said himself that Q lined up in the wrong place. It's not internet folk making it up; Warner said it (at the probowl, maybe?...I think so).

 

[lauraw]

I'm surprised that KW wouldn't keep this sort of thing in-house..

 

[CtCardinals78]

I'm surprised that KW wouldn't keep this sort of thing in-house..

I'm not.

 

[lauraw]

CtCardinals78, why are you not surprised? You Gotta have a reason...

 

[Russ Smith]

Warner said himself that Q lined up in the wrong place. It's not internet folk making it up; Warner said it (at the probowl, maybe?...I think so).

I'm still wondering why because at the Superbowl minutes after it happened his coach said it was a bad throw, not that someone lined up wrong?

I'm also wondering because in the 2nd half they ran the EXACT same play, Boldin lined up essentially identically and caught the ball for a short gain, the only difference was Harrison rushed on that play instead of dropping back.

I couldn't bring myself to watch the 4th quarter but honestly in hindsight I forgot how average Kurt really was the first 3 quarters of that game and how insanely good he was in the 4th quarter.

If my math is right of Kurt's 377 yards passing, 220 came in the 4th quarter and about 190 of that was on scoring drives(had about 30 on the last 2 plays before the fumble to end the game). He was absolutely brilliant in the 4th quarter.

however, on the same drive where Harrison got the TD pick, Kurt threw high over Fitz who just tipped the ball and it bounced right out of the hands of Ike Taylor #24, hit him right in the chest. Honestly we could have been much further back if the defense hadn't played well earlier in the game. In the 3rd quarter they looked like they were going up 24-7 but Hood and Dockett made a big stop and then Watson threw Ben for a 2 yard loss on 3rd and goal holding them to a FG. Even that drive a very iffy roughing call on Dansby extended the drive(and it looked like intentional grounding on Ben too).

I'm also reminded why I'm so excited for this year with Hightower and Wells. One of the points that was made repeatedly in the game by announcers was how they were doubling Fitz with a safety and giving Edge the flat. Over and over they did that which is why Fitz had one catch in the first half. Yet for the game Edge had 4 catches for 28 yards, there were at least 2 that I saw today where if it had been Arrington(or Wells or Hightower) we're looking at a 25+ yard play easily, one might have been a 50+ TD play.

There was one sequence in particular when Edge caught the ball on consecutive plays. the first went for 10 yards from our 17 to the 27, Edge made a nice move to get a couple of extra yards but he got caught from behind on that play there was 10-15 yards more if not for that, he did get 2 yards more after contact.

The next play he catches the ball and on the slo mo replay there are 2 defenders 15 yards away, with Boldin there. Boldin tried to block one but he eventually got off the block and helped tackle Edge for a ... 5 yard gain. Watching it live it seems weird but when you see the replay and you can see where everyone is, it's as if Edge was running in sand. the 2 guys that took him down were LB's and they look like Usain Bolt compared to Edge on the play, which is why Boldin couldn't get the block, it took Edge so long to get there he just couldn't block a 260 pound Farrior any longer.

Edge played a big part in us playing well in the playoffs but watching that game again reminds me just how his lack of speed impacted us at times. We did score on that drive but if you throw that same defense against Fitz this year and give Hightower or Wells the flat the way they did Edge, it'll be a whole different outcome.

 

[Russ Smith]

Warner said himself that Q lined up in the wrong place. It's not internet folk making it up; Warner said it (at the probowl, maybe?...I think so).

FYI I did find a Sando piece on ESPN where he said that Whiz and Haley alluded to the Cards being lined up incorrectly on the play in that both Fitz and Boldin should have been wider on the play. He said that would have given Boldin more room to get open. May be true but again Boldin WAS wide open except for one thing, harrison didn't rush, we ran that exact play later and got a completion because he rushed that time.

Sando also pointed out the thing that I personally think ultimately decided why I'm happy to see Pope get cut. the 2 guys on the O who had the best shot at Harrison on the return were Warner and Pope. As Sando points out, Pope took a bad angle and when he got up to Harrison, at our 38, he instead ran into Warner taking both him and Kurt out of the play. I know it's unfair but in hindsight if Pope doesn't do that it's highly unlikely that Harrison scores, they'd have slowed him enough that either Fitz or Breaston would have gotten him down before the endzone. Sure was a huge play in that game.



Oh well. It is interesting right after it happened Whiz blamed Kurt, later he said we lined up wrong.

Goes back to my earlier comment that in these situations I tend to think if Kurt is yelling at someone, they probably ran the wrong route.

 

[Rats]

Another meaningless thread from the same group as last season, you know who you are, that can't and never have been able to get behind Kurt as the Cards Qb instead of Matt. I am sure it galled you to no end that Kurt was the Qb under center for the Cards Super Bowl run, even though I am sure you won't admit it but deep down you know that is how it is. Now you post these meaningless digs as if to validate your opinion of the Cards Qb. Frankly you should just apologize for having a biased and misplaced opinion of Kurt and shut up already. He is a HOF Qb that led a 9-7 team to the Super Bowl. Those are the facts...ask anybody. If he has an injury that effects his play it will show up soon enough and you can claim "you knew all along what a bum that christian was as a QB" and rail at all the Warnerphiles that followed him to the team. Never allowing that maybe an injury is what sent him to the bench not his bagboy routine. He was a bum all along you will say...yeah you guys are the smartest guys in the room or your just so bored waiting for the season you have to watch reruns of preseason games. How pathetic is that.

 

[CtCardinals78]

CtCardinals78, why are you not surprised? You Gotta have a reason...

I may get ripped for this but I don't care anymore. You ask why Im not surprised? Here's why: me personally I don't buy the whole nice guy image, it's almost too nice, if you catch my drift. When he throws a bad pass I often see him cursing out the receivers or the coaches. He always seems to be upset at some coach or players after an unsuccesful drive. Then there was the whole Q incident after the Jets game. Q is layed out injured at the hospital and he tells his wife he wants to retire right then and the story gets leaked to the press. I took that as being very selfish for two reasons A) it's not always about him and b) leaders just don't do that. Tiki Barber announced his retirement halfway through the season because he didn't want to play anymore andhe gets ripped a new one. KW announces he wanted to retire halfway through the season because of a vicious hit and nothing is said.

Then in the Super Bowl with the interception and reports of him hanging Q out to dry. KW since as long as I can remember will frequently lock onto one WR even before the ball is snapped and throw to him.

Then there is the whole religion aspect. It's brought up in every interview and I get it, it's very important to him and I can respect that. My religious beliefs are important to me as well as I'm sure they are to everyone in here. It's not something that needs to get shoved down everyones throat at the end of every win. I understand faith is a huge part into getting him to where he has been but at the end of the game I always feel like he's coming off as "me against the world and my faith in God helped me win this game".

Then there was the offseasons in AZ. In 2005 not many teams were lining up for his services. I would even make the argument Arizona was the only team serious about making him a starter. A year later the Cards draft ML, and everything is cool at first. Then he gets benched for poor play and we hear I'm not here to play backup QB. After ML goes down in 2007 KW plays well and then in the offseason in interviews he says "I hope I get the chance to start", despite the coaching staffs reassurance he will. Then this past offseason how does he repay the Cards? By going to a bitter rival to drive up his contract value. That's cool and I understand it's a business, but I would also appreciate the chance the Cards gave me three years earlier and cut them some slack, especially since he stunk it up for his first two seasons.

Finally last year at Candlestick I was standing in a group of Card fans cheering on the players as they left the field. As the fans cheered for KW he never acknowledged them(at least from what I saw and I watched him the whole way) Right before the entrance to the lockerroom there was a 9ers fan in the stand with a 9ers jersey on with a SI cover of Warner as a Ram. The dude asked for an autograpgh and he went out of his way to sign it. That's pretty damn nice of him and thought it was cool to see, but at least acknowledge your fans cheering you on as you leave the field if your going to do something like that.

I will always appreciate KW for the miraculous run he helped guide this team on last year, and will always appreciate the fact that he is most likely a HOF QB, and think it's great all the work he does for the community and kids, but to be honest I was never a huge fan of his and never will be. He just comes off as someone who is phoney to me and selfish. That's probably unfair of me to say because I'm not in the lockerroom with the guy and he seems to have a lot of respect in there with his teammates and coaching staff. Those are just my opinions. Sorry if I offended anyone.

To address Rats post, for me personally I am able to seperate the my persoanl beliefs and beliefs for what's best for the team. I have no doubt Warner is the best QB to lead this team and get behind him 100% as an Arizona Cardinal. I give him
all the credit in the world for that amazing run last year and even playing as well as he did in 2007 when he was badly hurt with that elbow. I think most of us are able to do that if we aren't personally fans of a particular player. To me it's no differnce to any of us who haven gotten angry at core players over contract issues or what have you, but are still willing to cheer them on as players. I don't know if that makes any sense I like watching Warner play, and think he's a great player.