Isaiah Simmons

[dreamcastrocks]

It was a dumb move to draft Simmons then and remains a dumb move now. Even if it had worked out to whatever degree, anyone loving the idea of spending 18 mil per year on an ILB? I mean, Budda is one of the best S in the NFL and people complain about paying him 17 mil.

I completely disagree. He was tagged to be the perfect player that can come in and defend TEs. They were flat out abusing us game after game.

You want to use hindsight, then absolutely.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I completely disagree. He was tagged to be the perfect player that can come in and defend TEs. They were flat out abusing us game after game.

You want to use hindsight, then absolutely.

Where was the evidence that Simmons was effective covering TE's?

Who tries to solve for TE's with a high first round pick?

 

[CardNots]

Where was the evidence that Simmons was effective covering TE's?

Who tries to solve for TE's with a high first round pick?

I read the same, he was to be our savior for our lacking TE coverage ability. This is fact!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Where was the evidence that Simmons was effective covering TE's?

Players aren't only drafted based on evidence. Potential is often a huge factor.

Who tries to solve for TE's with a high first round pick?

I didn't say, or imply that Simmons guarding TEs was going to be his only responsibility.

 

[Arz101]

Simmons will be cut next year. Collins the year after next.

All will be on a podcast with Keim in 2026 explaining how their talents were ahead of time

 

[Chopper0080]

I completely disagree. He was tagged to be the perfect player that can come in and defend TEs. They were flat out abusing us game after game.

You want to use hindsight, then absolutely.

It isn't hindsight when I thought and stated it was a bad move then and I am saying the same thing now.

 

[kerouac9]

Simmons will be cut next year. Collins the year after next.

All will be on a podcast with Keim in 2026 explaining how their talents were ahead of time

His contract runs out after this year. No need to cut him.

I'll be really interested to see what Collins' looks like this season before they have to pull the trigger on his fifth-year option. Stinks to not really have many building blocks from two full draft classes. Marco Wilson might be the best player we've gotten from those two drafts.

 

[Chopper0080]

Players aren't only drafted based on evidence. Potential is often a huge factor.

I didn't say, or imply that Simmons guarding TEs was going to be his only responsibility.

Again, the stupidity of drafting an ILB or S in the top 10 where the only way he meets that draft expectation is if he becomes a top 3 player at those positions should be known. If he is not top 3, you aren't going to re-sign him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Again, the stupidity of drafting an ILB or S in the top 10 where the only way he meets that draft expectation is if he becomes a top 3 player at those positions should be known. If he is not top 3, you aren't going to re-sign him.

Some pro-bowl and HOF players have been drafted there. I'm sure you don't need a list, but I can provide one if you need to.

 

[kerouac9]

Some pro-bowl and HOF players have been drafted there. I'm sure you don't need a list, but I can provide one if you need to.

Maybe, but a lot of pro bowl and HOF players have been drafted much, much later at those same positions.

 

[reebokalone2001]

I think he was trying to recreate Daryl Washington again. I thought Simmons would be evolutionary Karlos Dansby/Thomas Davis but it just didn't come together.

I'm sure some of the blame can be apportioned to a COVID predraft process. What a catastrophe.

Same here.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Maybe, but a lot of pro bowl and HOF players have been drafted much, much later at those same positions.

Of course they have. When you have 22 positions to fill, and 7 rounds to do so, this will happen.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think he was trying to recreate Daryl Washington again. I thought Simmons would be evolutionary Karlos Dansby/Thomas Davis but it just didn't come together.

I'm sure some of the blame can be apportioned to a COVID predraft process. What a catastrophe.

A LOT of us did.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It isn't hindsight when I thought and stated it was a bad move then and I am saying the same thing now.

Except these types of decisions aren't based in a Chopper0080 sized vacuum.

The court of public opinion/NFL scouting etc wasn't clearly not on the same page as you at the time.

 

[Chopper0080]

Except these types of decisions aren't based in a Chopper0080 sized vacuum.

The court of public opinion/NFL scouting etc wasn't clearly not on the same page as you at the time.

Except that you have quotes from former AZ beat writers who stated there were voices within the organization that wanted a player like Wirfs instead...maybe the Chopper vacuum is smarter than the Keim vacuum.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Except that you have quotes from former AZ beat writers who stated there were voices within the organization that wanted a player like Wirfs instead...maybe the Chopper vacuum is smarter than the Keim vacuum.

I'm just going to disagree with you on this one. Most people thought it was a good pick at the time, even if the pick didn't work out.

It isn't like we had an Adrian Peterson/Levi Brown type of decision.

 

[Chopper0080]

Some pro-bowl and HOF players have been drafted there. I'm sure you don't need a list, but I can provide one if you need to.

Sure, some have. The issue is the path to success when drafting non-premium positions in the top 10. Only 2 of the 24 ILB/S currently paid over 10 mil per year were drafted in the top 10. 1 S and 1 ILB.

However, due to 5th year option calculations, if Simmons had made one Pro Bowl, his 5th year option would have been 17.478 mil this season. That would have put him at the 5 highest ILB salary in the NFL. Chase Young would be 17.452. Derrick Brown 16 mil. Tristan Wirfs is 16.6 mil. Cj Henderson 15.791. Justin Jefferson 17.9 (if he would have only made 1 Pro Bowl).

So, one Pro Bowl made on a rookie deal, leads to a 5th year option of.

ILB - 17.478 (5th highest paid ILB)
WR - 17.9 (16th highest paid WR)
DE - 17.452 (11th highest paid EDGE)
DT - 16 (18th highest paid DT)
CB - 15.791 (10th highest paid CB)
OT - 16.6 (19th highest paid OT)

So basically, you can't pick up the option for an ILB drafted in round 1 who has made a Pro Bowl unless he is one of the 5 best in the NFL because that is where his 5th year option will be.

The path to success is just so narrow it is dumb to pursue.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I thought Simmons was the right pick, still do.
Jonathan Cooper was the right pick in his draft as well.

They just didn’t work out. That happens.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I thought Simmons was the right pick, still do.
Jonathan Cooper was the right pick in his draft as well.

They just didn’t work out. That happens.

If you're drafting positions of less importance (G and ILB obviously qualify), you cannot miss.

 

[Chopper0080]

I mean, it is not a coincidence that zero of the four ILBs drafted in round 1 of the 2020 draft didn't get their 5th year option picked up. It is just too cost prohibitive to do so.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will take it even further. Because of first round 5th year option costs, it is smarter to draft a RB in round 1 of the NFL draft than it is to draft an ILB in round 1. If the player plays in multiple Pro BowlsYou are more likely to pick up the 10.9 mil 5th year on the RB than the 20.9 for an ILB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Honest question. The 5th year option for an ILB who has made more than one Pro Bowl is 20.9 mil. What ILB in the NFL would you pay that amount of money?

 

[ajcardfan]

I read the first six pages of this and everyone was raving about the pick. Krang was the only one who said he wanted someone else, which was Jedrick Wills. Wirfs isn't mentioned even one time. Lamb did get a mention.

2020 1st round pick is Isaiah Simmons

Do we make the pick or trade it away?

www.arizonasportsfans.com

 

[Chopper0080]

I read the first six pages of this and everyone was raving about the pick. Krang was the only one who said he wanted someone else, which was Jedrick Wills. Wirfs isn't mentioned even one time. Lamb did get a mention.

2020 1st round pick is Isaiah Simmons

Do we make the pick or trade it away?

www.arizonasportsfans.com

"This draft was tough for me. I liked both Simmons and Derrick Brown last year before they made the decision to return to school. That said, most people know on this board that I am a proponent of having a top offensive line to support a QB. I am disappointed we did not take Wirfs, but Simmons is a hell of a player. If he fails, it will be because the Cardinals were not smart enough to find ways to play to his strengths vs his weaknesses. I think Seattle, San Francisco and LA will target him. I think they will target his size, inexperience and lack of instincts. Simmons is a tremendous athlete and seems to be a good kid. Hopefully we don't mess this up."

 

[Chopper0080]

Wirfs is right in there.