It's more or less happening as I was told

[Go Devils]

Of the Spurs' current big three, only one was a lottery pick. I agree with your position in general, but don't undercut yourself by ignoring facts in order to exaggerate your point.

2 of the big 3 were hidden gems over seas and Duncan was a crooked tank job they did to get that pick. Your not going to hide talent overseas anymore.

 

[Gaddabout]

The Suns have always been this way, even with Colangelo. For some reason, Colangelo was never willing to go for broke with the Suns like he ironically did for the Diamondbacks.

I disagree. I just think he gambled with the wrong people (Danny Manning, Penny Hardaway, Tom Gugliotta). Being a big Suns acquisition in the 90s was sort like being the unknown member of a Star Trek landing team -- you knew they weren't going to make it to the end.

 

[Gaddabout]

2 of the big 3 were hidden gems over seas and Duncan was a crooked tank job they did to get that pick. Your not going to hide talent overseas anymore.

The Spurs have had more than two hidden gems. Beno Udrih, John Salmons, Luis Scola, Tiago Splitter, George Hill, DeJuan Blair ... that's an amazing streak of finding legitimate NBA talent considering they haven't had a pick this decade higher than 26. All of those guys belong on an NBA roster at some level or another.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I disagree. I just think he gambled with the wrong people (Danny Manning, Penny Hardaway, Tom Gugliotta). Being a big Suns acquisition in the 90s was sort like being the unknown member of a Star Trek landing team -- you knew they weren't going to make it to the end.

You couldn't say any of those were 'going for broke.' In fact, Sarver, Kerr, and the Shaq trade was the closest go for broke acquisition made in a long long time.

 

[slinslin]

Maybe so but they started that dynasty with two #1 picks that can be argued. Everything they have right now is still a result of those two #1 picks. Something we don't have.

We are best case where the Spurs were pre-Duncan #1 pick. We have Nash and Hill they had Robinson and Elliott. Nash and Hill are already a lot older than their 1-2 punch and we are far away from getting a #1 pick.

Lets hope Nash misses the next season or something so we can get a #1 pick instead of a #10 pick.

 

[Gaddabout]

You couldn't say any of those were 'going for broke.' In fact, Sarver, Kerr, and the Shaq trade was the closest go for broke acquisition made in a long long time.

That's a fair assessment, though that was more of a D'Antoni/Kerr trade. Sarver was more deferential to Kerr then, which also probably illustrates why it's really hard to compare Sarver to Colangelo. Colangelo was involved with basketball ops from Day 1 of the organization, and he was his own GM.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Colangelo was involved with basketball ops from Day 1 of the organization, and he was his own GM.

Which is the same thing you are criticizing Sarver for.... food for thought.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Which is the same thing you are criticizing Sarver for.... food for thought.

you're not understanding his criticism. colangelo came up through the ranks. he was a basketball man first, franchise owner later. sarver was never a basketball man. in any sense. he's a business owner that's now trying to play basketball man. BIIIIIG difference.

 

[hsandhu]

I won't watch a single game of what will be the worst Suns season in my time as a fan.

I won't support a team that strives for mediocrity which is exactly what we are doing, spend money to win 46 games instead of 26 and get a #14 pick instead of a #4 pick.

Buyout Sarver.

Sarver sucks, but give me a break. Did you watch from 96-2005, that was absolute hell? Talk about striving for mediocrity. The suns were in nba purgatory, absolutely zero chance of competing for a title but also zero chance of doing a real rebuild.

If not for isiah taking marbury/penny's contracts they'd still be there.
Look at my join date, after that trade. For 10 years prior this team made me sick.
I do not romanticize the bryan colangelo era. He ain't anything special too and he's showing that in toronto.

 

[Gaddabout]

Which is the same thing you are criticizing Sarver for.... food for thought.

Not even close. Colangelo was actually recruited to play basketball at Illinois and was GM (and even head coach!) for 20 years before he ever became an owner (and he was barely that with less than 1 percent total investment). When he took over as general managing partner, he was well respected in the league for his foresight and charisma, as well as deeply integrated into the local political scene.

Sarver is a businessman who used his friends to get himself a toy, but he's a toddler playing in a sandbox ruled by third-graders (I'm actually very pleased with that analogy). He has zero business tampering with the front office.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns have always been this way, even with Colangelo. For some reason, Colangelo was never willing to go for broke with the Suns like he ironically did for the Diamondbacks.

WHAT?

This is just wrong. JC always ATTACKED FA once given the chance. He gave Tom Chambers the highest FA contract ever at the time he signed him and was on people's doorsteps at 12:01 on FA day whenever he had a chance.

Example - after the 1991-2 season, after we already traded for Barkley, JC still went out and got Danny Ainge (who had just come off multiple good seasons for Portland) to bolster the team. The next off-season? After we went to the Finals, did Jerry sit back and do nothing, resting on his laurels? No, he went out and signed the biggest FA out there in AC Green to bolster our D and rebounding.

Did he rest on his laurels after that? No, they next season, he went out and signed Danny Manning - the BEST FA available, along with Wayman Tisdale, another solid FA.

He did everything he could, include wink-wink, play with us for a year so we can get your Bird Rights and sign you to a bigger contract when the team had a shot at the title in 1992-1995.

Then, once that era was over, he rebuilt and was ready to grab Dyess and Pippen (EVERYONE assumed this was set in stone) but the lock-out happened, Dyess got cold feet and the plan blew up in his face.

But to say he never went for broke flies completely in the face of what Jerry did back in 1988-1995 period. Whenever he had an opportunity to strengthen the team he did it, even to it's detriment (making good on the wink-wink deal with Manning back in the day).

 

[Cheesebeef]

You couldn't say any of those were 'going for broke.' In fact, Sarver, Kerr, and the Shaq trade was the closest go for broke acquisition made in a long long time.

Danny Manning was the biggest FA in the game when we signed him. And that was coming off a season where we won 59 games.

it really seems like you never followed the Suns until post Barkley with comments like the above. When we were contending, JC always continued to build on the team. Even the Hot Rod deal was him trying to build on the team.

 

[Gaddabout]

WHAT?

This is just wrong. JC always ATTACKED FA once given the chance. He gave Tom Chambers the highest FA contract ever at the time he signed him and was on people's doorsteps at 12:01 on FA day whenever he had a chance.

Example - after the 1991-2 season, after we already traded for Barkley, JC still went out and got Danny Ainge (who had just come off multiple good seasons for Portland) to bolster the team. The next off-season? After we went to the Finals, did Jerry sit back and do nothing, resting on his laurels? No, he went out and signed the biggest FA out there in AC Green to bolster our D and rebounding.

Did he rest on his laurels after that? No, they next season, he went out and signed Danny Manning - the BEST FA available, along with Wayman Tisdale, another solid FA.

He did everything he could, include wink-wink, play with us for a year so we can get your Bird Rights and sign you to a bigger contract when the team had a shot at the title in 1992-1995.

Then, once that era was over, he rebuilt and was ready to grab Dyess and Pippen (EVERYONE assumed this was set in stone) but the lock-out happened, Dyess got cold feet and the plan blew up in his face.

But to say he never went for broke flies completely in the face of what Jerry did back in 1988-1995 period. Whenever he had an opportunity to strengthen the team he did it, even to it's detriment (making good on the wink-wink deal with Manning back in the day).

I think people tend to remember the Colangelo after he'd already over-extended himself with the D-Backs and then over-extended that management by obsessing over winning a championship. The Suns were locked into some awful contracts and only just beginning to climb out when he sold the Suns to help cover his debts incurred with the D-Backs ownership group.

If only Artie Moreno would have purchased either team, I think everything would have been so much better.

 

[Mainstreet]

WHAT?

This is just wrong. JC always ATTACKED FA once given the chance. He gave Tom Chambers the highest FA contract ever at the time he signed him and was on people's doorsteps at 12:01 on FA day whenever he had a chance.

Example - after the 1991-2 season, after we already traded for Barkley, JC still went out and got Danny Ainge (who had just come off multiple good seasons for Portland) to bolster the team. The next off-season? After we went to the Finals, did Jerry sit back and do nothing, resting on his laurels? No, he went out and signed the biggest FA out there in AC Green to bolster our D and rebounding.

Did he rest on his laurels after that? No, they next season, he went out and signed Danny Manning - the BEST FA available, along with Wayman Tisdale, another solid FA.

He did everything he could, include wink-wink, play with us for a year so we can get your Bird Rights and sign you to a bigger contract when the team had a shot at the title in 1992-1995.

Then, once that era was over, he rebuilt and was ready to grab Dyess and Pippen (EVERYONE assumed this was set in stone) but the lock-out happened, Dyess got cold feet and the plan blew up in his face.

But to say he never went for broke flies completely in the face of what Jerry did back in 1988-1995 period. Whenever he had an opportunity to strengthen the team he did it, even to it's detriment (making good on the wink-wink deal with Manning back in the day).

Nice post. You even put in some things I hadn't thought of in years.

 

[Covert Rain]

Danny Manning was the biggest FA in the game when we signed him. And that was coming off a season where we won 59 games.

Agreed. It was viewed around the league as a huge acquisition.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Which is the same thing you are criticizing Sarver for.... food for thought.

you're continuing to make yourself look more and more out to lunch, or just completely unknowledgable with every post you make on this subject.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

you're not understanding his criticism. colangelo came up through the ranks. he was a basketball man first, franchise owner later. sarver was never a basketball man. in any sense. he's a business owner that's now trying to play basketball man. BIIIIIG difference.

Fair enough. I can understand that criticism.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Which is the same thing you are criticizing Sarver for.... food for thought.

seriously, linking JC and Sarver in any way shape or form is beyond words to me. You think USA basketball would turn to Robert Sarver to help them rebuild a tarnished legacy in order to reclaim our dominance like they did when they begged JC to do it (which he did).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sarver sucks, but give me a break. Did you watch from 96-2005, that was absolute hell? Talk about striving for mediocrity. The suns were in nba purgatory, absolutely zero chance of competing for a title but also zero chance of doing a real rebuild.

If not for isiah taking marbury/penny's contracts they'd still be there.
Look at my join date, after that trade. For 10 years prior this team made me sick.
I do not romanticize the bryan colangelo era. He ain't anything special too and he's showing that in toronto.

This is exactly what I am talking about when I say go for broke. There was a quite a steatch of years when the Suns were perfectly content being a first round and out team.

 

[Covert Rain]

seriously, linking JC and Sarver in any way shape or form is beyond words to me. You think USA basketball would turn to Robert Sarver to help them rebuild a tarnished legacy in order to reclaim our dominance like they did when they begged JC to do it (which he did).

There is absolutely no comparison when it comes to JC and RS. None.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

seriously, linking JC and Sarver in any way shape or form is beyond words to me.

I didn't link them, I compared them. Big difference.

You think USA basketball would turn to Robert Sarver to help them rebuild a tarnished legacy in order to reclaim our dominance like they did when they begged JC to do it (which he did).

Of course not. I never said nor implied that USA Basketball should either.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There is absolutely no comparison when it comes to JC and RS. None.

There are comparisons, whether people want to see them or not. Ask me which one I want, and I'll tell you Colangelo every time.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Danny Manning was the biggest FA in the game when we signed him. And that was coming off a season where we won 59 games.

it really seems like you never followed the Suns until post Barkley with comments like the above. When we were contending, JC always continued to build on the team. Even the Hot Rod deal was him trying to build on the team.

Did you think that Danny Manning was our missing piece to a championship? I didn't.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is exactly what I am talking about when I say go for broke. There was a quite a steatch of years when the Suns were perfectly content being a first round and out team.

are you serious? They made all sorts of moves to try and get out of that, but they were TERRIBLE moves. The Penny signing was a 91 million dollar go for broke move. I don't know how you categorize that any other way. A superstar with bad knees, being brought to a 50 win team on a 90 million dollar salary isn't going for broke? Sure, it blew up in his face, but that WAS going for broke.

Problem is, once you go for broke, you're stuck with what you've got for years and THAT'S why we were a 45-53 win team for a decade.

We went for broke from 1988-1995, didn't win squat.

1996-1998, we rebuilt and set us up for a huge summer with a ton of cap space... and got crushed by the lockout... then "went for broke" by signing Googs and Longley by reaching for them...

Then, when that looked bad, they went for broke AGAIN by trading and signing Pennny at 91 million dollars and once that happened, they were BROKE, hamstrung by injured players and horrible contracts.

All JC seemingly did was go for broke.

But you say he did in baseball what he didn't do here... which makes even less sense. Baseball had no salary cap so JC could build on top of bad contracts with bigger ones to make that team into a champion. The NBA salary cap wouldn't allow him to do that with the suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Did you think that Danny Manning was our missing piece to a championship? I didn't.

Sure he was. He was one of the best players in the game until his injury with us. He'd languished with the Clippers but the guy was a difference maker. Healthy, he's arguably a better player than any Phoenix Suns player including Barkley and Nash.

Steve