Josh McCown (my take)

[football karma]

I know we can't expect miracles with most QBs, but if yesterday's performance is something we should sit back, accept as okay, and ignore, then we've become seriously forgetful of what good QB play truly is. Or even average QB play. 'Cause yesterday we saw ABYSMAL QB play.

Stout -- I get that.

I guess my point is the following:

1. Put your pick of any qb in the NFL behind center yesterday and my pov is that you would still get peformance somewhere in the "abysmal" to "average at best" range.

2. Even with "average" peformance, the Cards still lose by two touchdowns.


While not your point directly, I would also guess that even if the Cards had drafted Ben Roethlisberger two years ago, right now a significant portion of this board would be calling him a bust.

 

[Stout]

Stout -- I get that.

I guess my point is the following:

1. Put your pick of any qb in the NFL behind center yesterday and my pov is that you would still get peformance somewhere in the "abysmal" to "average at best" range.

2. Even with "average" peformance, the Cards still lose by two touchdowns.


While not your point directly, I would also guess that even if the Cards had drafted Ben Roethlisberger two years ago, right now a significant portion of this board would be calling him a bust.

I respectfully disagree. Put Manning back there, or Palmer, or any of a number of other QBs, and we have a shot to win the game, with all the other negatives included. Not saying we definitely would have won, but it would have been FAR more competitive. Someone did a breakdown of some of the stats in the game. I'll try to find it for you.

 

[Stout]

Here it is, from MaoTosiFanClub:

2nd quarter - Defense causes a three and out after we tied the game at 10-10.

1st-10 J. Arrington rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
3rd-8 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
4th-8 S. Player punt, no return

2nd quarter - Next series, Dallas up 17-10. Cards still very much in game

1st-10 A. Boldin rushed to the right for no gain
2nd-10 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
4th-10 S. Player punt

3rd quarter - Dallas leads 24-10 and defense creates turnover in Cowboy territory

1st-10 M. Shipp rushed to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4 M. Shipp rushed to the right for 3 yard gain
3rd-1 J. McCown rushed to the right for no gain
4th-1 N. Rackers kicked a 47-yard field goal

4th quarter - Down two touchdows with an entire quarter to play, defense causes a three and out

1st-10 A. Henry intercepted J. McCown for 58 yard touchdown

Our defense certainly did not play well (or even mediocre for that matter) but the offense had opportunities to opush the game in a new direction. Both sides of the ball failed miserably and to put the loss solely on the defense is pretty weak.

 

[Russ Smith]

Stout -- I get that.

I guess my point is the following:

1. Put your pick of any qb in the NFL behind center yesterday and my pov is that you would still get peformance somewhere in the "abysmal" to "average at best" range.

2. Even with "average" peformance, the Cards still lose by two touchdowns.


While not your point directly, I would also guess that even if the Cards had drafted Ben Roethlisberger two years ago, right now a significant portion of this board would be calling him a bust.

We'll never know but there are QB's in the NFL that see blitzes coming right at them and burn them, and teams stop blitzing.

Wolfley said it twice later in the game he said Josh is under an onslaught right now but he's done absolutely nothing since the bomb to Boldin to stop the blitzing. Any good team will continue to do this until you make them pay.

I was really hoping Josh would take control of the job I don't see a ton of point in playing Warner the rest of the way he's not the future, but at this point if JOsh isn't the future either, it comes down to who is better now?

Believe me he's not the only problem and there are FAR worse young QB's around, watch Tampa Bay and SF yesterday Simms was awful consistently in the dirt on throws, had guys wide open all day he couldn't get the ball to, both Galloway and Clayton were visibly pissed. The guy threw for 264 yards and after the game his coach said "it reminds me of the Donald Hollas years in Oakland" !!! Hell even veteran Mark Brunell was terrible yesterday(I benched Kerry Collins Friday to start Brunell that was smart).

I don't know what the answer is but I'm more convinced now than ever it's not Josh. I'd still start him against Seattle he HAS to play against good teams to either get better, or prove beyond a shadow of a doubt he's never going to be a good starter here.

 

[Pariah]

Josh has looked good on the occasions that he has had adequete blocking.

Actually, this isn't a true statement accross the board. Yes, he's looked good with adequate pass coverage...sometimes. Othertimes, he hasn't. There are planty of throws he's "made" with no one around him that are real head-scratchers. Othertimes, he's effectively gotten away from the pass rush and makes a crappy pass (maybe he can't settle himself down to make the throw? I dunno; I won't guess as to why, but I know it happens).

Yes, McCown has shown us glimpses. Just enough to keep hope alive. But he's a tease. Is it possible that even with these problems he's still not very good?

 

[football karma]

Here it is, from MaoTosiFanClub:

2nd quarter - Defense causes a three and out after we tied the game at 10-10.

1st-10 J. Arrington rushed to the left for 2 yard gain
2nd-8 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
3rd-8 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
4th-8 S. Player punt, no return

2nd quarter - Next series, Dallas up 17-10. Cards still very much in game

1st-10 A. Boldin rushed to the right for no gain
2nd-10 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
3rd-10 J. McCown incomplete pass to the right
4th-10 S. Player punt

3rd quarter - Dallas leads 24-10 and defense creates turnover in Cowboy territory

1st-10 M. Shipp rushed to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4 M. Shipp rushed to the right for 3 yard gain
3rd-1 J. McCown rushed to the right for no gain
4th-1 N. Rackers kicked a 47-yard field goal

4th quarter - Down two touchdows with an entire quarter to play, defense causes a three and out

1st-10 A. Henry intercepted J. McCown for 58 yard touchdown

Our defense certainly did not play well (or even mediocre for that matter) but the offense had opportunities to opush the game in a new direction. Both sides of the ball failed miserably and to put the loss solely on the defense is pretty weak.

On the last three possessions --

on a third and ten -- QB threw a hot route based on the blitz (changed the play at the line) and Boldin doesnt run the right route. QB error? WR error? who knows.

Why is the failure to pick up a first down with three straight running plays the QB's fault?

On the pick -- the replay clearly showed Ware blowing up Big and hitting McCown as he threw -- again -- QB error?

Again -- I agree that Josh didnt play well. But a different Qb wouldnt have made a wit of difference.

Carson Palmer is a really nice player. He also has been sacked half as many times as Cardinal qbs and has running backs that average 4.3 yards a carry vs the Cardinals pathetic 2.7.

 

[Russ Smith]

On the last three possessions --

on a third and ten -- QB threw a hot route based on the blitz (changed the play at the line) and Boldin doesnt run the right route. QB error? WR error? who knows.

they talked about that one on radio, they said due to crowd noise they don't think Boldin could hear Josh. They said Josh was yelling at Boldin about it as they came off the field and Boldin was telling him he couldn't hear him. Later Calvisi came on and said a couple of other Card players had apparently said they were having trouble hearing Josh too, don't know how loud the crowd was, could it be something with Josh's voice(sore throat or something) or was the crowd just extra loud?

But they clearly said on radio that it appeared Boldin ran the wrong route because he didn't know JOsh had changed the play.

 

[football karma]

Just to put a bow on my POV--

I would love a better QB -- but I honestly dont know how any QB can be evaluated given the offensive line deficiencies.

The Cards are starting a back up defensive end at right tackle for goodness sake (best announcer line yesterday on Wakefield's switch "that might work in the MAC, but not in the NFL").

I doubt that McCown can grow to be Donovan McNabb -- but I think he could be Matt Hasselback-- and the Seahawks do have 5 wins right now and a darn nice offense.

 

[Stout]

On the last three possessions --

on a third and ten -- QB threw a hot route based on the blitz (changed the play at the line) and Boldin doesnt run the right route. QB error? WR error? who knows. Russ seems to have answered this.

Why is the failure to pick up a first down with three straight running plays the QB's fault? Because the last one was McCown and he executed less than poorly.

On the pick -- the replay clearly showed Ware blowing up Big and hitting McCown as he threw -- again -- QB error? Why didn't he get rid of it sooner, even if it was to throw it away? Why throw the ball as you're being knocked backwards on you rear? Bad blocking, but the INT certainly as QB error.

Again -- I agree that Josh didnt play well. But a different Qb wouldnt have made a wit of difference. McCown can't do anything in the face of a blitz, under and overthrows, and makes a host of other mistakes other QBs make far less. A different QB may have kept us in this game. A different QB CERTAINLY would have a t least made a lick of difference.

Carson Palmer is a really nice player. He also has been sacked half as many times as Cardinal qbs and has running backs that average 4.3 yards a carry vs the Cardinals pathetic 2.7.

here.

 

[nidan]

Much as I like Josh I have to agree.

I see a lack of accuracy on the long balls, I saw the same watching practices a couple of years ago. At the time I talked several other press folks [not being use dto analysing practices] watching and they pretty much comments.

Basicly, Josh is not accurate downfield.

 

[clif]

Much as I like Josh I have to agree.

I see a lack of accuracy on the long balls, I saw the same watching practices a couple of years ago. At the time I talked several other press folks [not being use dto analysing practices] watching and they pretty much comments.

Basicly, Josh is not accurate downfield.

I see it as a footwork problem. Yesterday before the game I was watching the NFL Network and it made a reference to Tom Brady "dusting off his shoes" and then promptly going out to light up the Falcons a few weeks ago. The next clip was a play where Brady made a nice spin move off a toss fake where he promptly turned and fired a strick on that 70 yard td throw. The reference was in jest, but it got me thinking.

As I watched yesterdays game ( in between fits of rage ) I noticed that Josh has some bad footwork. My question is.. why hasn't this been addressed by any of our QB coaches??

 

[red desert]

Dvl, I was praying, nay, SCREAMING for a grounding call. It would show he actually had the football savvy to at least TRY and do something in the face of a blitz, 'cause standing there like a statue and ignoring it sure in the heck doesn't work!

Argh! I'm sorry. I know you know the guy, and I know this isn't your fault, but McCown should be nicknamed the Teflon QB. Some people simply won't acknowledge it when he SUCKS! I came out in support of Josh when he had 1 1/2 good games, and I stayed with him. But he's quickly shown that he doens't have it. At all. He's a Rob Johnson clone.

Lots of people get mad on this board when you rip McCown, and ask why you don't rip the other horrible parts of this team. Doesn't it ever dawn on any of the McCown supporters that we already all AGREE about the other problems? We already KNOW that the O-line sucks, and that we have no running game, and that we scheme badly, and that our D is soft. We KNOW. I, and the others who can admit it, already KNOW that McCown is playing like crap, and is in fact sucking pretty hard-core. It's when people won't admit to what's right in front of them that folks like me get irate. Ugh. It's so obvious it's sad.

You forgot to mention that we all KNOW GREEN SUCKS. Just some of us haven't acknowledged that yet.

 

[john h]

Do you know whats deeply troubling? That sounds a lot like what I posted about plummer four years ago.

Plummer? Are you talking about the Watergate Plummers or were they Plumbers? Jake at least has a nickname "The Snake". What is Josh's nickname? Until you get a nickname you suck.

 

[Evil Ash]

Plummer? Are you talking about the Watergate Plummers or were they Plumbers? Jake at least has a nickname "The Snake". What is Josh's nickname? Until you get a nickname you suck.

According to this board even when you get your nickname you suck. Amazing what coaching has done for the guy combined with a competent Oline, a running game, and TEs that show up week in and week out does, huh?

Nah but its all the QBs fault. Good thing never came from Steve Young leaving the Bucs either, right? Sometimes its the team folks ... we keep trying to put a bandaid on a slit throat and hoping our problems will just go away

Until we fix the line, who we have as position players means precisely DICK

 

[jstadvl]

What

********. From everybody. Take a look around and realize the GOOD teams scheme around their personnel.. We don't do that!
Again, i don't disagree that McCown is at fault some of the time, what QB isn't? Not this game nor some others.
Ian-tell me who would have hit Q on the TD pass? Warner? My butt, he wouldn't have bought himself the time. No touch? WHO? WHO? throws the perfect touch pass on every long ball to their receivers? Don't even try. NO ONE!
Run any way you like with this. Here Stout, The announcers stated a number of times, if it wasn't for MCCowns pure atheleticism, that play doesn't get made!
This has all gone to pure crap!
Did McCown make some mistakes yesterday? Yup.
Did this team suck yesterday? Yup!
IAN-who made the play, McCown or Boldin? The announcers even said Boldin didn't have to go up and get it, but, he can.