Jurecki: Cards to add experience in F.O.

[RugbyMuffin]

http://www.azcardinals.com/history/draft.php

I will write my own thoughts as to their performances thusfar in red.
G-Great pick
A-average
U-underperforming
B-bust

Levi Brown and Lutui are busts ?

Campbell is under performing ?

I dunno about that.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Don't agree Lutui or Pope are busts. And Levi is far from that. Leinart really has underperformed because of Warner being Kurt Warner. Not enough info yet on him. He's making strides.

Has Jonson or Lewis caught on anywhere that anyone knows of?

What about Watkins, where is he?

When healthy, Pope seemingly always leads the league in FSs at his postion, cant block worth a lick and gets routinely tackled by 180lb CBs. What's most important, he doesn't know how to pronounce Worsterchire sauce

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Levi Brown and Lutui are busts ?

Campbell is under performing ?

I dunno about that.

You really feel like Levi has performed up to the standard of being the 5th overall pick in the draft? Look, technically he shouldn't be considered a bust, but he was definitely a reach IMO.

First, off, he is a right tackle, which should never be a top 15 pick unless they are ready to step in a dominate from day one. There is a reason RTs dont make what LTs do, because they aren't as good/important. Yet we took this guy and made him the second highest paid lineman in the game and almost twice as much as anyone else at his position at the time. I guess because he is a decent player you dont want to call him a bust, but for his draft position, I cant think of a more fitting word.

Jamarcus Russell-Bust
Calvin Johnson-Beast
Joe Thomas-Beast
AD-Beast
Levi-?????
Landry-Beast
Anderson-Bust

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Robert Gallery has always started too. I guess he is average as well. Maybe I should have put underperforming, but no better than that IMO. He wont start next year, so what does that mean? Would anybody like to make a A$FN on that one?

Again guys, I was just commenting on what they have done THUSFAR.

I was going to respond to you last night but my computer died.

Looks like everyone picked up the slack for me.

You are just out and out wrong. I am not trying to act like we are the GD Yankees of the NFL but to say we haven't been drafting well recently is pretty ignorant. We are getting rotation players and your kamikaze assessment of the players is jut out in left field. What if DRC got hurt last year or Green was good enough to keep him of the field? Would he have been a bust too? Also with Doucet and Campbell getting your "U" tag? LMAO. Deuce and Levi as busts for one of the best pass blocking lines in the NFL? Because we went to the SB doesn't mean we don't have flaws but it doesn't mean what we are doing doesn't work either.

You say relative to thier draft position but thats your perception of what a #5 pick should be. Being immediate longtime starters means something. 5 out 10 Top 10 picks don't even reach THAT level by their 3rd year.

YOu could go through any teams draft and it would be similar or worse to what you have "assessed" with our draft. Not everyone is going to have 4 HOF's picked like the Steelers of the mid 70's. Basically if you have 2 starters and 3 depth guys from a draft thats a smashing success.

Its your "assessment" and perception thats skewed.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Depends. Was the linebacker hurt during training camp? Did they have more experienced linebackers stepping up and getting 115 tackles each?

That was my point, Baltimore has as good of a stable of LBs as we have WRs. What if he wasn't activated because he couldn't beat out some UDFA's?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You really feel like Levi has performed up to the standard of being the 5th overall pick in the draft? Look, technically he shouldn't be considered a bust, but he was definitely a reach IMO.

First, off, he is a right tackle, which should never be a top 15 pick unless they are ready to step in a dominate from day one. There is a reason RTs dont make what LTs do, because they aren't as good/important. Yet we took this guy and made him the second highest paid lineman in the game and almost twice as much as anyone else at his position at the time. I guess because he is a decent player you dont want to call him a bust, but for his draft position, I cant think of a more fitting word.

Jamarcus Russell-Bust
Calvin Johnson-Beast
Joe Thomas-Beast
AD-Beast
Levi-?????
Landry-Beast
Anderson-Bust

I guess it is all relative.

Bust = not on team, not playing. At least in my book.

Levi Brown started every game for us last year at RT, and did a solid job, IMO. Can't say he is a bust. Maybe underperforming or average but I wouldn't break out the bust label.

In my book a bust, is Alan Branch. The guy only sniffs the field if there is an injury. Wendell Bryant comes to mind.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Jaguarpaw81, the point you made is that you're ready for ESPN. Good teams don't necessarily have to play their draft picks in their first year. And that is why most say that you have to wait a few years before evaluating a draft class. I'm glad you took the time to look at our recent drafts, but it's just silly to grade last year's class. And now that you've done it, please don't try to justify your grades. If you conducted a poll on this Board, and asked the posters if they were happy or unhappy with last year's draft, I'm sure the results would be about 99% favorable. JMO.

So it's OK to say the draft was a success this early, but too soon to say that it wasn't?

If you go back and see how this whole thing started it was someone else who brought the last three drafts into the convo. I have been discussing the past ten years. They were commenting on how great the last three drafts were and I had to differ. I really dont think this makes me "ridiculous, silly, or just plain dumb" as some of these fantastic message board folk were so quick to label me as, but to each there own I guess.

 

[CaptTurbo]

First, off, he is a right tackle, which should never be a top 15 pick unless they are ready to step in a dominate from day one. There is a reason RTs dont make what LTs do, because they aren't as good/important. Yet we took this guy and made him the second highest paid lineman in the game and almost twice as much as anyone else at his position at the time. I guess because he is a decent player you dont want to call him a bust, but for his draft position, I cant think of a more fitting word.

A RT IS your LT when you have a left handed QB as we do in Leinart who was supposed to be the starter when Levi was drafted.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

I was going to respond to you last night but my computer died.

Mine too, I am getting ready to heave this thing out the window.

Looks like everyone picked up the slack for me.

You are just out and out wrong. I am not trying to act like we are the GD Yankees of the NFL but to say we haven't been drafting well recently is pretty ignorant. We are getting rotation players and your kamikaze assessment of the players is jut out in left field. What if DRC got hurt last year or Green was good enough to keep him of the field? Would he have been a bust too?

First off, he still would have started as the nickelback. He won that postion in camp. Had he not beaten Ralph Brown out for that I would have begun to have my doubts, as I would expect many of you to do as well.

The problem with your analogy IMO is that we already knew Green sucked and that is WHY we drafted DRC. I would not have considered him a bust for not getting the #2 job because he came from a small scholl and I dont think anyone expected him to acclimate himself to the pro game so quickly.

Also with Doucet and Campbell getting your "U" tag? LMAO. Deuce and Levi as busts for one of the best pass blocking lines in the NFL?

OK, I relent on the Campbell grade, he gets an "average". There is no way you can say that Doucet didn't underperform though. He didn't miss all of camp. He was beaten out by Urban and Morey for an active spot all season. Personally I think he will be the second best player out of this draft for us and take the #2 spot over Breaston in camp this year after we trade Q bang, but to say that he was satisfactory last year just doesn't seem right to me.

Because we went to the SB doesn't mean we don't have flaws but it doesn't mean what we are doing doesn't work either.

I was just disagreeing with someone who said that our last three drafts were great. That's all.

You say relative to thier draft position but thats your perception of what a #5 pick should be. Being immediate longtime starters means something. 5 out 10 Top 10 picks don't even reach THAT level by their 3rd year.

Wrong. Other than QBs, top tewn picks and especially top 5s are expected to contribute at a high level immediately. They come into the league as the highest paid players at their postion every year and teams aren't forking over that cash for nothing.

YOu could go through any teams draft and it would be similar or worse to what you have "assessed" with our draft. Not everyone is going to have 4 HOF's picked like the Steelers of the mid 70's. Basically if you have 2 starters and 3 depth guys from a draft thats a smashing success.

No, that is a good solid draft. Getting 3 studs like Fitz, Dansby and Dockett in the same year was a smashing success.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Our drafts have gotten better,but let's face it, they couldn't have gotten much worse. I wouldn't call Brown and Lutui busts only because they are starting on a playoff caliber team. They should continue to improve. Brown is being blamed for the colossal mistake of passing on Peterson. For having a top 10 pick every year,our drafts have been overall pretty bad. Lack of good coaching to develop the talent may have as much to do with that as anything and Whiz/staff has changed that. I mean look at the coaches we've had in here in the past. Joe Greene, DG's buddies, the OL the DG hired after cutting him in camp, McGinnis,Marmie and so on. Whiz has brought in the first legit NFL staff since the move to Arizona. That should make all the drafts better.

As for the GM help,i can't see any of the big names like Peterson, Casserly, or Allen coming aboard in a secondary role. The only big name i could see would be Ron Wolf because he doesn't want to do it full time. But he'd be a longshot as well. Savage could be the guy and he thrived in a secondary role with the Ravens. Let's just hope it's not one of Graves's old cronies from his Bears days.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

A RT IS your LT when you have a left handed QB as we do in Leinart who was supposed to be the starter when Levi was drafted.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

Leinart isn't the starter and a RT still has an easier job when he is protecting a lefty because teams primarily put their best pass rusher in front of the LT.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

First off, he still would have started as the nickelback. He won that postion in camp. Had he not beaten ralph Brown out for that I would have begun to have my doubts, as I would expect many of you to do as well.

The problem with your analogy IMO is that we already knew Green sucked and that is WHY we drafted DRC. I would not have considered him a bust for not getting the #2 job because he came from a small scholl and I dont think anyone expected him to acclimate himself to the pro game so quickly.



OK, I relent on the Campbell grade, he gets an "average". There is no way you can say hat Doucet didn't underperform though. He didn't miss all of camp. He was beaten out by Urban and Morey for an active spot all season. Personally I think he will be the second best player out of this drfat for us and take the #2 spot over Breaston in camp this year after we trade Q bang, but to say that he was satisfactory last year just doesn't seem right to me.



I was just disagreeing with someone who said that our last three drafts were great. That's all.



Wrong. Other than QBs, top tewn picks and especially top 5s are expected to contribute at a high level immediately. They come into the league as the highest paid players at their postion every year and teams aren't forking over that cash for nothing.

No, that is a good solid draft. Getting 3 studs like Fitz, Dansby and Dockett in the same year was a smashing success.

I had said that 2 of our 3 drafts were good. We whiffed on the Breaston/Patrick draft although if you get one potential PB'er tings can't be that bad Breaston has that chance.

I know what Top 10 picks are EXPECTED to do. The numbers say something else all together. If you get a 3 years starter 3 years in thats doing fairly well. It just doesn't happen as much as you would think.

As for Dansby, Dockett, and Fitz draft being a smashing success - well yeah - we were picking 3rd in every round and we hit on every pick. That doesn't happen very often.

As an example. The 2007 draft for the Giants was widely seen as one of the better drafts that year and what helped propel them to the Super Bowl. Now look at who they picked.

120 (20)Aaron RossCBTexas219 (51)Steve SmithWRUSC317 (81)Jay AlfordDTPenn State417 (116)Zak DeOssieOLBBrown516 (153)Kevin BossTEWestern Oregon615 (189)Adam KoetsTOregon State714 (224)Michael JohnsonSArizona7*40 (250)Ahmad BradshawRBMarshall

Not really a game breaker among them. just solid guys that are either getting starter reps or shining in limited time. Thats why its crazy to even try to evaluate the 08 draft. Thats one of the first drafts I cen remember where we were not drafting for immediate starters.

We will see what happens. But recent history has shown me to have confidence in what Kiem and Wiz do on draft day and I think they are getting better as time goes by.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. George Boone (Just kidding!)

2. I'm guessing Casserly, Peterson or Savage (with PK or Reese outside possibilities).

3. If it turns out to be Casserly, I'd be very happy if for no other reason than he's had strong Monmouth Co., NJ roots (from when he was the first of a new breed of "bright young men" without pro football experience who was hired as an assistant to Bobby Beathard in Washington) and I might find more Cardinal inside info finding its way into our local media.

4. Regarding past drafts, (a) judging from the wide range of assessments (including U ratings for Campbell and Doucet who spent their rookie years listening and learning !!!!) I guess beauty is truly "in the eye of the beholder" and (b) he/she who drives looking mainly thru their rear view mirror is destined to crash.

 

[ARZCardinals]

#2 guy Rules -

1 - Get me coffee any time I need it

2- call back the calls I don't want to deal with - Players agents who are already under contract

3- find different restaurants around town that I haven't been to that are good for lunch

4- stay the he11 out of my way

 

[LittleDavis]

A RT IS your LT when you have a left handed QB as we do in Leinart who was supposed to be the starter when Levi was drafted.

Actually, I was going to point out the same thing. Don't you love hater armchair coaches or FO personnel.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Actually, I was going to point out the same thing. Don't you love hater armchair coaches or FO personnel.

Except that we dont have a left handed QB. A fast 260lb DE is great when you run a 4-3, so should we draft one of those too since were moving closer and closer to being a full-time 3-4?

Thanks for the personal attack btw.

 

[CaptTurbo]

so who are we adding? when will we know?

 

[CaptTurbo]

Except that we dont have a left handed QB. A fast 260lb DE is great when you run a 4-3, so should we draft one of those too since were moving closer and closer to being a full-time 3-4?

Thanks for the personal attack btw.

Lets assume Levi plays 8 more years.

Who has a better chance of being the starter for the majority of that time?

 

[Kel Varnsen]

so who are we adding? when will we know?

Show starts at 2 and goes to 6, so they'll probably tease it for a few hours at least, then make the announcement.

 

[LittleDavis]

Except that we dont have a left handed QB. A fast 260lb DE is great when you run a 4-3, so should we draft one of those too since were moving closer and closer to being a full-time 3-4?

Thanks for the personal attack btw.

Sorry about that. I just thought that you were a little petty with SWD. He is correct as far as why we drafted Brown. Leinart was to be our QB of the future and we needed an upgrade at Tackle. We weren't sure about Gandy at that point.

We definitely need help at OLB/DE but I have hope for Campbell. His numbers were comparable to A Smith and he wasn't a starter. I'm not as high on Iwebema but we'll see. A full year and off season for these two may work wonders.

 

[Pariah]

Here's the announcement. You guys are going to be disappointed.

Cardinals | Team Names Pariah as Executive Manager of Football Personnel
Today the Arizona Cardinals announced Pariah as the executive manager of football personnel. In this role Pariah will serve as an advisor to GM Rod Graves and have considerable input into player evaluation, the free agent process and the draft. Pariah is an unknown around much of the league, but the Cardinals organization is familiar with him through freelance consulting and close ties to the area fan base.

The good news is I can give you all a coupon for a free nachos at the home games. Perks, baby. It's all about the perks.

 

[Mulli]

Here's the announcement. You guys are going to be disappointed.



The good news is I can give you all a coupon for a free nachos at the home games. Perks, baby. It's all about the perks.

I don't buy it. Cards would call u Jason.

 

[LittleDavis]

Here's the announcement. You guys are going to be disappointed.



The good news is I can give you all a coupon for a free nachos at the home games. Perks, baby. It's all about the perks.

What about us out of towners? Can you ship nachos and hot wings?

 

[MrYeahBut]

Cardinals | Team Names Mitch as Executive Manager of Football Personnel
Today the Arizona Cardinals announced Mitch as the executive manager of football personnel. In this role Mitch will serve as an advisor to GM Rod Graves and have considerable input into player evaluation, the free agent process and the draft. Mitch is an unknown around much of the league, but the Cardinals organization is familiar with him through freelance consulting and close ties to the area fan base. .

FTFY

 

[ajcardfan]

FTFY

In his opening news conference, Mitch promised to turnover at least half the roster every two weeks throughout the year. "I know what I like in a football player and what sort of player it takes to build a winner. That's why I'll be the most active personnel guy in the league in trades and cuts," promised Mitch.