Kevin Garnett?

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
26,999
Reaction score
35,142
Location
BirdGangThing
Absolutely untrue.


If he wasn't, then why hasn't he pressured management to improve his supporting cast? Why hasn't he agreed to help facilitate a trade to a different team? Just look at the opening paragraph of the article that starts this thread...it's absolutely correct.

He's soft and playing in a place that treats him like a god. If he truly cared about winning, and not just a paycheck, he would have done something about his career, years ago. He would have questioned things management in MN has done...like get rid of every PG that actually helps him (Marbury, etc). Instead, he just sits back and puts up big numbers (similar to Joe Johnson in ATL) and collects a paycheck...he's content with staying in MN, where there is no pressure on him to be a winner! He couldn't handle the pressure of playing for a franchise with a winning tradition, like the Lakers.
 

asudevil83

Registered User
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Posts
2,061
Reaction score
1
If he wasn't, then why hasn't he pressured management to improve his supporting cast? Why hasn't he agreed to help facilitate a trade to a different team? Just look at the opening paragraph of the article that starts this thread...it's absolutely correct.

He's soft and playing in a place that treats him like a god. If he truly cared about winning, and not just a paycheck, he would have done something about his career, years ago. He would have questioned things management in MN has done...like get rid of every PG that actually helps him (Marbury, etc). Instead, he just sits back and puts up big numbers (similar to Joe Johnson in ATL) and collects a paycheck...he's content with staying in MN, where there is no pressure on him to be a winner! He couldn't handle the pressure of playing for a franchise with a winning tradition, like the Lakers.

oh good god, thats all i have to say.:rolleyes:
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
If he wasn't, then why hasn't he pressured management to improve his supporting cast? Why hasn't he agreed to help facilitate a trade to a different team? Just look at the opening paragraph of the article that starts this thread...it's absolutely correct.

He's soft and playing in a place that treats him like a god. If he truly cared about winning, and not just a paycheck, he would have done something about his career, years ago. He would have questioned things management in MN has done...like get rid of every PG that actually helps him (Marbury, etc). Instead, he just sits back and puts up big numbers (similar to Joe Johnson in ATL) and collects a paycheck...he's content with staying in MN, where there is no pressure on him to be a winner! He couldn't handle the pressure of playing for a franchise with a winning tradition, like the Lakers.


Unbelievable. First of all he did ask management to surround him with talent several times, when they got Sprewell and Cassell for example. Second of all he is simply loyal and doesn't bitch and moan.

Garnett got rid of Marbury? Wow you are losing it... please get your facts right before you start to argue. Your post is absolutely ********.
 

CaptainInsano

Registered User
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Posts
1,516
Reaction score
0
If he wasn't, then why hasn't he pressured management to improve his supporting cast? Why hasn't he agreed to help facilitate a trade to a different team? Just look at the opening paragraph of the article that starts this thread...it's absolutely correct.

He's soft and playing in a place that treats him like a god. If he truly cared about winning, and not just a paycheck, he would have done something about his career, years ago. He would have questioned things management in MN has done...like get rid of every PG that actually helps him (Marbury, etc). Instead, he just sits back and puts up big numbers (similar to Joe Johnson in ATL) and collects a paycheck...he's content with staying in MN, where there is no pressure on him to be a winner! He couldn't handle the pressure of playing for a franchise with a winning tradition, like the Lakers.

You are definatley going to ruffle some feathers with this one.

I will respectfully disagree, because I remember last year when minnesota was struggling and made some changes Garnett went on the air in some kind of interview and was NOT very happy with his words to minnesota's management.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
Uh, what do you have ATL giving up? ... (T)hem getting it done without either Johnson+ or Pachulia/Smith+ just ain't feasible....

Refer to my earlier post. Marvin Williams, some future picks, a bit of filler, and massive salary relief. It's a good deal for Minnesota. Sign-and-trades this summer won't do them any good, because they don't want the salary. They need a team with cap space or a massive expiring contract. Atlanta is the only team with major cap space (except maybe Charlotte?), and I haven't seen a credible proposal involving a massive expiring contract. (Maybe Orlando with Hill?)
 

Suns_fan69

Official ASFN Lurker
Joined
Oct 2, 2002
Posts
3,634
Reaction score
2,016
Location
Vancouver, BC, Canada
If Orlando wanted to it sounds like they could put together a decent package. I haven't looked at the salary situations but I'm guessing something like Jameer/Hill/Darko + draft picks? The salaries probably don't match up (and I don't think Orlando is under the cap) so they'd need some more filler like Pat Garrity (who I believe has an expiring contract as well) or Tony Battie.

Salary relief like Eric pointed out, two young guys with potential, a solid role player or two as well as draft picks? Tough to beat that package. It gives Darko more time to develop starting day in and out with zero pressure on him. I'm guessing Minnesota will want to replace one or both of Nelson and Darko with Howard but I can't see Orlando even thinking about that.

This would give Orlando the best 4/5 combo in the league combined with a solid backcourt (Arroyo would be starting on most other teams currently). They do take a big hit to their depth which was questionable in the first place but it rapidly accelerates when their championship window opens up without a massive hit to their long term viability.
 
Last edited:

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,368
Reaction score
16,867
Location
Round Rock, TX
Refer to my earlier post. Marvin Williams, some future picks, a bit of filler, and massive salary relief. It's a good deal for Minnesota. Sign-and-trades this summer won't do them any good, because they don't want the salary. They need a team with cap space or a massive expiring contract. Atlanta is the only team with major cap space (except maybe Charlotte?), and I haven't seen a credible proposal involving a massive expiring contract. (Maybe Orlando with Hill?)

Because Atlanta owes us a future first, I believe they are prohibited from offering another--unless it's out of the scope of our pick (i.e. it would have to be a first rounder AFTER 2008).
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
Atlanta has Indiana's first-round pick in the 2007 draft and their own in 2008, so they could move either of those (but not both).
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,368
Reaction score
16,867
Location
Round Rock, TX
Atlanta has Indiana's first-round pick in the 2007 draft and their own in 2008, so they could move either of those (but not both).

I hear you about the Indiana pick, but thinking about it, we would get the Atlanta pick next summer (2007) or the summer after (2008), so neither one of those can be traded right now.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
I'm not sure what his point is...I thought he was saying KG is worth so much more now.


My opinion....KG and Shaq are in the same ballpark value wise thats why it was a good comparison.


:biglaugh:

Every analyst at the time of both Shaq trades predicted titles with the trades and shifts in the division. I have yet to hear one announcer say if KG was traded to a team, that team would become an instant title contender. PLEASE!

KG is good but he is not on that level. Like I said...dreaming is free.

PS. The team is already considered a contender without KG.
 
Last edited:

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
Actually, with the improved perimeter defense ability by Marion, I'm no longer wishing to trade him away. In particular if he was traded for KG, we'd have even less defense for the TMac, Carter, Kobes of the world. For the Suns this season, the best trade might be Junior + Burke for Ely.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
Actually, with the improved perimeter defense ability by Marion, I'm no longer wishing to trade him away. In particular if he was traded for KG, we'd have even less defense for the TMac, Carter, Kobes of the world. For the Suns this season, the best trade might be Junior + Burke for Ely.

There really isn't any true centers left besides Shaq and Yao. So I agree, that Marion's defense is so versatile and he can guard so many types of players, I would rather have him as well.

You trade Marion, who is going to cover the TMACs, Carters Kobe's etc....
 

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
:biglaugh:

Every analyst at the time of both Shaq trades predicted titles with the trades and shifts in the division. I have yet to hear one announcer say if KG was traded to a team, that team would become an instant title contender. PLEASE!

KG is good but he is not on that level. Like I said...dreaming is free.

PS. The team is already considered a contender without KG.


Dreaming is free huh? Were you dreaming when you said this.....

First off, let me say that I would love to get KG. I think he is the type of player that could put you over the top.


Are there two "SteelDog's" posting on ths board??



And then there is this gem...

There is nothing that says KG is that much more valuable then Marion. So anybody suggesting that KG for Marion STRAIGHT UP would be a fair trade, I would have to agree.


Marion and Garnett have the same value? Do you laugh yourself to sleep at night over these jokes or are you actually serious?
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
Dreaming is free huh? Were you dreaming when you said this.....
Are there two "SteelDog's" posting on ths board??

OK. I will try and type S L O W for you. I said "he is the type of player that could put you over the top". Meaning if you already had all the other pieces he COULD Be the last piece that puts you over the top. Now stay with me here..... what I didn't say is that KG could change the face of a division a la SHAQ like he did when he was traded twice. Again, have yet to hear anybody EVER say that about KG. That's why those trades will NEVER be in the same class as each other.

And then there is this gem...

Marion and Garnett have the same value? Do you laugh yourself to sleep at night over these jokes or are you actually serious?

No, I laugh myself asleep by reading would be GM's posts who over estimate the value of their favorite players.

:slap:
 
Last edited:

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,284
Reaction score
68,237
No, I laugh myself asleep by reading would be GM's posts who over estimate the value of their favorite players.

:slap:

so, in other words, you laugh at yourself?

To be honest, listing off the "who would guard Vince, Tracy and Kobe" argument really doesn't hold any water considering that Vince isn't an issue, playing on a crap team in the East, Tracy ain't Tracy anymore and, well, RAJA GUARDS KOBE.

Instead, I think the better question is who covers Duncan, Dirk? You know, guys who we regularly face in the playoffs and regularly ABUSE Shawn Marion. I'd sure as hell fire rather have Garnett guarding those guys tyhan Shawn. And that doesn't even get into the abuse Shawn takes at the hands of Josh Howard and Manu Ginobli.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
so, in other words, you laugh at yourself?

To be honest, listing off the "who would guard Vince, Tracy and Kobe" argument really doesn't hold any water considering that Vince isn't an issue, playing on a crap team in the East, Tracy ain't Tracy anymore and, well, RAJA GUARDS KOBE.

Instead, I think the better question is who covers Duncan, Dirk? You know, guys who we regularly face in the playoffs and regularly ABUSE Shawn Marion. I'd sure as hell fire rather have Garnett guarding those guys tyhan Shawn. And that doesn't even get into the abuse Shawn takes at the hands of Josh Howard and Manu Ginobli.

Actually I do from time to time. You have to or go insane on this board. With Amare, Kurt and Marion and no real centers other then Yao in the west, we have more then enough front court defense. So KG would be stuck guarding mostly SF. I would rather have Shawn who can guard SF and slide out to the best 2 guards in the league when we need him.

Plus what do you mean abuse? Shawn is considered one of the best defenders on the team. Nationally he is praised for his defense on most of those guys. Every defender gets owned sooner or later but there are guys in this league that nobody can cover no matter how good of a defender you are. Adding KG doesn't help you guard those guys any better.

Again, I have nothing against getting KG. However, this trade talk for him is totally unrealistic and between trades having to be within 10%, there is no way this deal would ever be done unless it's a 3 or more team deal. So all these fantastical trades which would having the Suns giving up the farm for KG is a pipe dream. Let alone dumb if you have to include Marion, one of our best bench players plus a first rounder.
 
Last edited:

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,284
Reaction score
68,237
Actually I do from time to time. You have to or go insane on this board. With Amare, Kurt and Marion and no real centers other then Yao in the west, we have more then enough front court defense. So KG would be stuck guarding mostly SF. I would rather have Shawn who can guard SF and slide out to the best 2 guards in the league when we need him.

Plus what do you mean abuse? Shawn is considered one of the best defenders on the team. Nationally he is praised for his defense on most of those guys. Every defender gets owned sooner or later but there are guys in this league that nobody can cover no matter how good of a defender you are. Adding KG doesn't help you guard those guys any better.

right, adding a mutliple time all-nba defensive team player, not to mention a superior rebounder won't help with those guys or our defense, as opposed to having them being guarded by a guy who's never come close to sniffing any of all defensive teams and who regularly gets lit up like a pin-ball machine by Dirk and Duncan. Not that it's all Marion's fault, he's undersized in guarding those guys.

And you throw Amare out there as if that's something impressive - give me a break. Amare couldn't hang with Duncan and couldn't go out on the perimeter to guard Dirk even when he was completely healthy and, much less now and we've seen DA park KT's ass on the bench against the Mavs last year and this year.

Bottom line, KG's ability to play those two guys straight up, rather than having to help with Marion would allow our defense to be that much stronger, not having to double constantly.

You can argue that our offense might suffer with such a trade (not convincingly IMO), but to argue that our defense would suffer with swapping Marion for a legit 7-footer who is multiple all-defensive team player, a monster on the boards and a freak athletically who's length can bother Dirk and Duncan better than anyone else on the team is just sheer, unadulterated homerism at it's worst.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,284
Reaction score
68,237
Plus what do you mean abuse? Shawn is considered one of the best defenders on the team. Nationally he is praised for his defense on most of those guys. Adding KG doesn't help you guard those guys any better.

we're really talking hypotheticals here, but that doesn't mean we have to venture outsid ethe realm of reality, which is what the above does. Yeah! Shawn's considered one of the "best" defenders on a team which has been historically atrocious on defense - that doesn't say much, but what does is the fact that he's never even made an all-first/2nd or 3rd team All-NBA team - although, how can that be when he's "praised for his defense on "those guys". Wouldn't it stand to reason that if a) Shawn was one of the best defenders ont he team and he gets national praise for matching up against the best offensive players in the league, that b) somewhere, maybe even just ONCE in his career, he would have at least made ONE of thsoe teams? To say that KG couldn't help you guard those guys any better is just laughable.
 

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
OK. I will try and type S L O W for you. I said "he is the type of player that could put you over the top". Meaning if you already had all the other pieces he COULD Be the last piece that puts you over the top.

But he couldnt put the Suns over the top?


Now stay with me here..... what I didn't say is that KG could change the face of a division a la SHAQ like he did when he was traded twice. Again, have yet to hear anybody EVER say that about KG. That's why those trades will NEVER be in the same class as each other.

Buddy...who cares. There is a lot of interest in Garnett and his value is determined by the market at the time and how bad a team wants him. If a team wants KG they could care less what Shaq was traded for. If two or more teams want KG then the bidding escalates. You dont know his value....you think he's worth Marion staight up.





No, I laugh myself asleep by reading would be GM's posts who over estimate the value of their favorite players.

:slap:


Isnt that what you're doing by saying Marions value is equal to Garentt??
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
right, adding a mutliple time all-nba defensive team player, not to mention a superior rebounder won't help with those guys or our defense, as opposed to having them being guarded by a guy who's never come close to sniffing any of all defensive teams and who regularly gets lit up like a pin-ball machine by Dirk and Duncan. Not that it's all Marion's fault, he's undersized in guarding those guys.

And you throw Amare out there as if that's something impressive - give me a break. Amare couldn't hang with Duncan and couldn't go out on the perimeter to guard Dirk even when he was completely healthy and, much less now and we've seen DA park KT's ass on the bench against the Mavs last year and this year.

Bottom line, KG's ability to play those two guys straight up, rather than having to help with Marion would allow our defense to be that much stronger, not having to double constantly.

You can argue that our offense might suffer with such a trade (not convincingly IMO), but to argue that our defense would suffer with swapping Marion for a legit 7-footer who is multiple all-defensive team player, a monster on the boards and a freak athletically who's length can bother Dirk and Duncan better than anyone else on the team is just sheer, unadulterated homerism at it's worst.

Superior rebounder???? You mean slightly better rebounder? Monster on the boards? So Marion must be a monster on the boards as well then.

KG - 11.9 per game
SM - 9.1 per game

First off neither is a Monster rebounder. They are both good rebounders. Second, Marion's and KG career rebounding numbers are almost identical despite the Suns having more rebounders on their team then the MT. Oh and KG is 4 inches taller.

Your at least right about Marion playing out of position. However, I have seen many a night where he has done an excellent job covering big men as well.

Amare can't hang with Duncan? Did you watch the playoffs? Amare can more then hold his own against Duncan. Amare is so close to being himself again IMO. Nobody can stop Duncan all the time. NOBODY. Nobody can stop Dirk all the time. NOBODY. KG doesn't change that so what's your point?

Also, Marion is not playing centers or PF this year. So you don't have to help Marion this year. Your talking about last year. Not this year. Marion has been matched up with mostly SF this year. Nobody is helping Marion guard his guy. Last year that argument was true. This year it's not.

But he couldnt put the Suns over the top?

Possibly yes. However, it's not clear cut that adding him would result in any better results then having Marion. Plus if you have to deplete an already WEAK bench IMO then ultimately the trade could hurt more then help.

Buddy...who cares. There is a lot of interest in Garnett and his value is determined by the market at the time and how bad a team wants him. If a team wants KG they could care less what Shaq was traded for. If two or more teams want KG then the bidding escalates. You dont know his value....you think he's worth Marion staight up.

Who is saying that the Market will bear that kind of value but some KG fans? I don't see teams lining up to trade away the farm for him. Plus I never said they would care what Shaq was traded for. Only that historically you don't get as much as some of the rediculous trades that are being suggested. You obviously don't know his value either. Nobody does until you see what he get's traded for. My guess is that MT will ask for too much and teams will balk. Then when he gets disgruntled and demands a trade, his value goes way down.
 
Last edited:

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,416
Reaction score
9,525
Location
L.A. area
I hear you about the Indiana pick, but thinking about it, we would get the Atlanta pick next summer (2007) or the summer after (2008), so neither one of those can be traded right now.

You're right, the Hawks' 2008 pick cannot be traded now, because it is potentially owed to the Suns. However, they could trade "our own 2007 or 2008 pick, whichever it is we don't have to give to Phoenix," because they'd still have the 2007 Indiana pick. The rule is that you can't leave yourself without a first-round pick in two consecutive future drafts, but the pick you keep doesn't have to be your own.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
You're right, the Hawks' 2008 pick cannot be traded now, because it is potentially owed to the Suns. However, they could trade "our own 2007 or 2008 pick, whichever it is we don't have to give to Phoenix," because they'd still have the 2007 Indiana pick. The rule is that you can't leave yourself without a first-round pick in two consecutive future drafts, but the pick you keep doesn't have to be your own.

I don't think that is true. Correct me if I am wrong but we traded the rights to our Cleveland pick a few years back. We never got the pick because it was protected and every year it was potentially ours but Cleveland couldn't get out of the seller. However, we traded away that pick during another deal. As far as I know you are allowed to trade away potential picks unless that rule has changed.
 
Last edited:

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
Superior rebounder???? You mean slightly better rebounder? Monster on the boards? So Marion must be a monster on the boards as well then.

KG - 11.9 per game
SM - 9.1 per game

First off neither is a Monster rebounder. They are both good rebounders. Second, Marion's and KG career rebounding numbers are almost identical despite the Suns having more rebounders on their team then the MT. Oh and KG is 4 inches taller.

.



Superior rebounder???? No Garnett is an inferior rebounder...he's only fourth in the league in rebounding.
:shock:
And uhh....I hate to break it to ya but Garnetts 3 more rebounds a game over Marion is HUGE. Doesnt matter what their CAREER rebounding numbers are either.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,359
Reaction score
15,376
Location
Arizona
Superior rebounder???? No Garnett is an inferior rebounder...he's only fourth in the league in rebounding.
:shock:
And uhh....I hate to break it to ya but Garnetts 3 more rebounds a game over Marion is HUGE. Doesnt matter what their CAREER rebounding numbers are either.

3 is huge? Um OK. Career doesn't matter? Um OK. Last time I checked Career indicates what a player does on average. His numbers will average out by seasons end just like Marions.

KG - 11.3
SM - 10.0

So by seasons end that's where they will end up. WOW 1.3 more rebounds. Yep that's so superior. At 4 inches taller he just dominates Marion in that category and overachieves.

:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
552,432
Posts
5,398,410
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top