Kevin Kolb in MVP Discussion?

[Mulli]

The mere fact that we're having this discussion makes me all the more thrilled at how the season is going.

Hells Yeah!

 

[TJ]

Yeah the MVP thing... well I'd love it because it means we have had a heck of a season, but it seems silly. Comeback player of the year? Now that's a possibility if he keeps it up.

Agree. I think if he keeps doing what he's doing (even with a slight regression) he'd be a shoe-in for Comeback POY. Almost in the same fashion that Chad Pennington won his in 2006, except Pennington won his QB competition that year and Kolb took over due to injury.

The two statistics that would hold Kolb back at the moment from MVP consideration are total yards and YPA. They both are at average ranges. If he gets a few more 300+ yard games moving forward, perhaps he could be mentioned in the real MVP conversation.

 

[Mulli]

Let's be real about this, would the NFL EVER let a Cardinal be MVP? Ever? Not likely.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The mere fact that we're having this discussion makes me all the more thrilled at how the season is going.

You're the man Stout!

 

[D-Dogg]

Well I suppose none of those stats are all that good on their own. Because you can have a high completion percentage, but have multiple turnovers and a low YPA. It could work like that with every stat, but I think you get the point and I think everyone has their own opinion on the best way to judge a QB statistically.

Which is why I said personally I think Completion and YPA is the best judge overall.

TD/INT is kind of tough, especially with gunslinger QBs who take chances, or teams with WRs like Larry who you kind of risk jump balls with more.

 

[D-Dogg]

Agree. I think if he keeps doing what he's doing (even with a slight regression) he'd be a shoe-in for Comeback POY. Almost in the same fashion that Chad Pennington won his in 2006, except Pennington won his QB competition that year and Kolb took over due to injury.

The two statistics that would hold Kolb back at the moment from MVP consideration are total yards and YPA. They both are at average ranges. If he gets a few more 300+ yard games moving forward, perhaps he could be mentioned in the real MVP conversation.

P Manning will be the comp for that.

 

[Mulli]

P Manning will be the comp for that.

P manning and his noodle arm in cold weather is going to be scary. And I really like the guy.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

P Manning will be the comp for that.

I thought that award was for people who didn't play well the year prior, not for players that didn't play at all.

 

[D-Dogg]

P manning and his noodle arm in cold weather is going to be scary. And I really like the guy.

Yep, the reason why I never thought he'd go to Denver.

I thought that award was for people who didn't play well the year prior, not for players that didn't play at all.

Hmm, maybe. I thought it was for either.

 

[Mulli]

Yep, the reason why I never thought he'd go to Denver.



Hmm, maybe. I thought it was for either.

I think they should cover his scar. There are kids and Mullis watching. Scary

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yep, the reason why I never thought he'd go to Denver.



Hmm, maybe. I thought it was for either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Comeback_Player_of_the_Year_Award

It is for anyone who had a bad year, wasn't in the NFL all together and players who had serious injuries. So I suppose PM is likely going to get that award.

 

[Mulli]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Comeback_Player_of_the_Year_Award

It is for anyone who had a bad year, wasn't in the NFL all together and players who had serious injuries. So I suppose PM is likely going to get that award.

Peyton gets to play KC, SD and Oak no fair!

 

[daves]

And, a 4th down, 15 yard TD pass, with less than 30 seconds on the clock, to tie the game?

That is sick, crazy clutch.

When was the last time we had a QB complete a pass that clutch? The Plummer pass to Jenkins in the PHI game a million years ago?

I submit this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_QzwbZJyFg&feature=player_embedded

Warner had plenty of clutch plays in games that actually meant something, but the whole series leading up to this play was sick, crazy, ... Cardinals!

...dave

 

[RugbyMuffin]

When was the last time we had a QB complete a pass that clutch? The Plummer pass to Jenkins in the PHI game a million years ago?

Last year. In Philadelphia, to be fair Skelton had some clutch plays.

4th down pass to LSH, Over head pass to Fitz, and TD pass to Doucet to ice it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said Kolb has been pretty good in the clutch.

I have confidence in this ability and skills that he possesses to make the big clutch play. But, at the same time I am not completely bought and sold on his play in the clutch.

He needed 2 shots in the endzone to get the job done. Score when the defense gives you the ball inside the 5 yard line, and don't let it get to the point where he has to make the 4th down TD pass. That is more than fair of an assessment in my mind. I know, I know 50 lashes with a wet noodle to the poster that even implies a negative about Kolb right now, but the situation is what it was.

At least now when Kolb screws up (it happens, Warner screwed up at times too) he can redeem himself.

Something else about Kolb that changed besides his pocket presence has been his play on 3rd down, where he is near tops in the league.

What is cool about Kolb, and it was a worry about him at one point was his age and development status. The logic of waiting for a 5yr, 28 year old vet to develop over a 23 yr old, 3 yr vet seem backwards.

Yet, Kolb has improved in some areas very quickly (pocket presence, 3rd down play), and that is promising and puts things in a more logical setting. They is a lot of room for improvement with Kolb, IMO. And that is a good thing.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Warner had plenty of clutch plays in games that actually meant something, but the whole series leading up to this play was sick, crazy, ... Cardinals!

The pass to seal the deal to Steven Spach.

You could almost see the demons of Cardinals past leave the building.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I have no issues with Skelton, and I even thought he should start the season.

However, the stats he put up in the run to 8-8 last year are not comparable to what Kevin has done so far in the run to 4-0. They just aren't.

I like John, and LOVE his pocket poise. He's a very poor man's Big Ben. But Kolb is more accurate by far, and makes better decisions (though not by an enormous margin).

+1.

My only small, tiny, insignificant point is, that Kolb's stats are in fact better then Skelton's no doubt. Yet, why are the same situations still happening ? Meaning winning at the end of close games ?

Shouldn't those improved stats mean easier games ? Same defense, better QB play, so why aren't we blowing teams out. And sorry, the defense blew the doors off the Eagles, so don't go there.

The thing Double Deuce taught me last year, that stats matter to a point, but a win is a win. And that is just a statement about Skelton, and in no way implies he should start over Kolb right now.

If Kolb is the better QB, and his stats so much better, and using the logic that better stats means better play, then I want to see Kolb light up the Rams.

I think that is fair for someone who still has reservations about Kolb right ? Go to a "weaker on paper" team, and win the game handily.

Kolb SHOULD HAVE done that against Miami, but it didn't happen. Still won, that's all that matters, but again, just want to see this improved QB play. I want to see the result on the scoreboard, and win and loss column.

All that said. It is a nitpicky comment, I am fine with Kolb getting it done anyway possible. All I ever asked form Double Deuce was to win the game, and that is all I ask of Blok. Go Blok!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This post is more than damn decent. Cards/cards' players either get too much pub or not enough?!?

+1.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Meanwhile our backup QB helps turn a 1-6 team into an 8-8 team and he's a bum who will never be any good.

Duck, let it go.

We have a few haters on this board, that never liked Skelton and are so happy to get the opportunity to pile it on right now, though their claims, and comments are usually, false, skewed, pure haterade, or just spite. Who cares what people who are more happy to be right, then accurate think ?

Kolb has played well. The logical mind see that Skelton can get the job done if he is put in the game. He is not going to get the job done like Kolb, but the end result, WINNING, has just a good a chance as doing the same. Skelon made his case last year, Kolb made/is making his case this year, and that is awesome for us, and the Cardinals.

I am super-psyched that Kolb is playing so well, and more important, the more you look into it, Blok is IMPROVING in areas where he was so bad that he lost his job, and justifiably so. Who can argue when the reasons Kolb was benched, are the things he changed/fixed/worked on to allow him his current success ? In preseason it was, "Blok sucks at this", and now it is "Blok has really improved at this". Makes sense, and it is a great thing!

That being said, I refuse to forget what Double Deuce did for this team last year, and what he can do now. I refuse to forget the novels written over the offseason about how Skelton had ZERO influence on the wins last year and was carried by special teams, defense, and "luck". I refuse to let those same authors of those offseason novels then say the complete opposite when a similar situation happens this year, with a different QB. Throw all the stats you want at me, but the 4-0 start is a continuation of last year, IMO. We are winning close games, with our defense, special teams, and luck providing ample opportunities for the offense/QB to make a play and win it at the end.

With all due respect to Kolb:

1. Seattle - Defense keeps them in the game, and holds off the Hawks at the end. Kolb takes opportunity and forshadows with a shocking/jaw dropping game winning drive.

2. New England - Defense keeps them in the game. Kolb plays surprisingly very solid. Missed FG from one of the best kickers is a little lucky.

3. Philly - There is no doubt, the defense carried the team this game. Just destroyed them. Again, Kolb plays solid. Makes the plays when needed.

4. Miami - Dubbed our defense's worst game. Yet, they bailed the team out again. Without the forced fumbles, int's, etc. Kolb has his stats but has 2 TD's, 2 picks, and a loss. But the defense did do what it did, and Kolb again conducts the game winning drive, with a beautiful pass in the end. Edit: I should say "bailed out" At this point when the offense is saying things like, "We knew we would get another shot to win." And the defense backs it up, hey, this is what our team does. Never gives up, and our QB's buy into that.


Again, throw your stats at me all you want. The staunch, all or nothing Kolb defenders, come and say wrongly that this is some implied knock against Kolb to push some ridiculous agenda about John Skelton being a better QB and or should be the starter. That is all nonsense, I have no time to discuss.

The point is, and what is most important overall, we got two QB's that, while doing it in their own way, can get the job done. Ladies and Gentlemen. Stats are nice, Warner like offense is fun, but when all is said and done, do you care how it is done as long as it is a win ?

This defense/special teams/luck/team has carried both QB's, and in return both QB's have made the plays that need to be made to get the win. Now how flippin' sweet is that ? You have two QB's that can get the job done, and have SHOWN they can get the job done. You have two QB's that the team will stand behind.

I am not going to put one down for the other because of personal preference. I am just going to enjoy having depth at the QB position and knowing either guy can get the job done.

I personally was not too sure about Kolb but he has won me over. I believe Kolb can get the win, and do what needs to be done when ask to do it. And because he IS the starter, and I obviously am a big fan of Skelton, I have to say I can see Kolb improving, and really taking this to another level, and sooner then it would have taken Skelton to get to that point.

We will see, and more importantly we will win.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Stats that I care about (doesn't mean you have to):

1. Ranked # 9 in QB rating with 97.6.
2. Completion percentage of 62.6%. (Warner was at 62.3, 67.1, and 66.1 his last 3 years with us according to NFL.com)
3. 7.03 yards per attempt. (Brady is at 7.97; Matt Ryan is at 7.91, Ben Roth is at 7.53)
4. 7 TD's, 2 INT's (with virtually 1 less game). (Only guys with more TD's in top 10: Ryan 11/2. Ben 8/2. Dalton 8/4. Manning 8/3)
5. Sacked 13 times (with virtually 1 less game). More than anyone else in the top 10, though Smith and Dalton each have 12--again though, with almost a full extra game)

You should add his QB-rating on 3rd down. That is a HUGE improvement from last year for Kolb.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Never could figure out why so many people thought praising one guy was dissing the other.

You and me both.

It is a generation/society thing, IMO.

Everything these days are not only all or nothing, but if your say a positive about something, you are labeled as being negative to its "competitor".

I don't understand the situation, but it is what it is. Makes it hard to talk to people tho, that is for sure.

 

[Russ Smith]

+1.

My only small, tiny, insignificant point is, that Kolb's stats are in fact better then Skelton's no doubt. Yet, why are the same situations still happening ? Meaning winning at the end of close games ?

Shouldn't those improved stats mean easier games ? Same defense, better QB play, so why aren't we blowing teams out. And sorry, the defense blew the doors off the Eagles, so don't go there.

The thing Double Deuce taught me last year, that stats matter to a point, but a win is a win. And that is just a statement about Skelton, and in no way implies he should start over Kolb right now.

If Kolb is the better QB, and his stats so much better, and using the logic that better stats means better play, then I want to see Kolb light up the Rams.

I think that is fair for someone who still has reservations about Kolb right ? Go to a "weaker on paper" team, and win the game handily.

Kolb SHOULD HAVE done that against Miami, but it didn't happen. Still won, that's all that matters, but again, just want to see this improved QB play. I want to see the result on the scoreboard, and win and loss column.

All that said. It is a nitpicky comment, I am fine with Kolb getting it done anyway possible. All I ever asked form Double Deuce was to win the game, and that is all I ask of Blok. Go Blok!

The first 4 games our top 4 RB's have 75 carries for about 211 yards, and one of those is now out injured and another is hurt and was out last week.

Wells averaged 4.3 YPC last year, we weren't a great running team by any means but we were much better than we have been so far this year.

So for us to put games away right now it has to be with the passing game, the D and the ST. We simply don't have the OL to throw that much.

They were just talking about precisely that on ESPN with Schlereth he said great defense, good ST but the offense is struggling in large part because they're not any good up front so they're limited in what they can do. Can't run the ball, can't protect the QB well enough to throw downfield effectively.

I think it'll come around some on offense so if the D holds up we'll be better although our schedule gets tougher.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Duck, let it go.

We have a few haters on this board, that never liked Skelton and are so happy to get the opportunity to pile it on right now, though their claims, and comments are usually, false, skewed, pure haterade, or just spite.

How are people piling on Skelton on this thread when Duckjake is one who brought Skelton up?

This is about Kolb, not Skelton.

 

[Mulli]

Seriously, who thinks that much about Skelton right now? Is he even active for TONIGHT'S game.

 

[Russ Smith]

I just hope if we have a QB controversy this year it's because Skelton is playing so well in practice, not because Kolb is struggling.

 

[Goldfield]

Kolb has been a big part of these wins. He is making some plays and finding the endzone, while keeping the picks low.

He is in the top ten QBR.

He sure has shown me we might have a solid qb.