Kevin Kolb is done (IMO)

[D-Dogg]

Leinart preferred to checkdown because it seems he doesn't want to throw int's mostly. Kolb checks down because he can't keep his eyes up long enough to find anyone, otherwise I'm sure he'd want to throw more down field than Leinart.

Really good point. Leinart played not to make mistakes, which led to little success. He had his injuries, which I think ruined him overall mentally, but didn't seem to change the way he approached the game.

Kolb seems to get more and more panicked every time I see him play. I once compared him to a chicken with its head cut off, but it's almost worse than that. It's like a chicken with its head cut off that has a feel for where the trouble is and wants to run TOWARDS it. I have never seen a QB generate more sacks than Kolb by leaving the pocket and running AT the pressure. It is maddening. With the way he creates sacks and kills drives, he'd be a great defensive player.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Really good point. Leinart played not to make mistakes, which led to little success. He had his injuries, which I think ruined him overall mentally, but didn't seem to change the way he approached the game.

Kolb seems to get more and more panicked every time I see him play. I once compared him to a chicken with its head cut off, but it's almost worse than that. It's like a chicken with its head cut off that has a feel for where the trouble is and wants to run TOWARDS it. I have never seen a QB generate more sacks than Kolb by leaving the pocket and running AT the pressure. It is maddening. With the way he creates sacks and kills drives, he'd be a great defensive player.

Maybe Kolb has been infected by the mystery virus in "The Happening"...you know, the one that changes the body's self-preservation switch to the 'off' position?

 

[JeffGollin]

Who's our second best QB: Lindley, Bartel or Kolb? If you bite the bullet and conclude Kolb is better than either of the other two (&/or there's no one else available out there on the street or on another team) you gotta stay with Kolb as our best option should Skelton go down.

But if, heart of hearts, you objectively feel that Kevin is so bad that we'd have a better chance of winning with Bartel or even the rook, I think you have to cut him (or, if you can keep a straight face, try to trade him).

Personally, I'd be in favor of keeping the competition wide open - only between Kolb, Bartel and Lindley for the 2 backup positions. We should take advantage of the time we still have to make a reasoned decision.

 

[Jetstream Green]

It might be hard to do with the cap and all from what others have said, but I stand by one of my comments of recent that we will probably cut Kolb and move on from this mistake

 

[kerouac9]

Correct me if wrong, but, I recall that at the time of the trade your rightly predicted that he'd be extended for 5 years at about 60M, and that given the choice of locking him up or playing him under the existing deal... this was a better choice.

I didn't like the trade, but I liked the contract. The Cards would've been even more stupid to trade the capital they did for Kolb and then pussyfoot around hoping that he actually is the guy that they thought he was.

Acquiring Kolb in the first place was a dumb decision. Structuring the contract in the way they did was a dumb decision. Re-structuring it so that he's harder to cut was a dumb decision. But extending Kolb's contract after the trade was a no-brainer.

And AZF, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm certainly not wrong more often than I'm right. I was wrong on Washington and may be wrong on Williams (let's see him get more than 6 preseason carries before we raise the white flag on this guy). But I was right on Stewart Bradley (so far--he looked fine last preseason), Joey Porter, Todd Heap, Kevin Kolb, Stephen Williams, Jeff King, Levi Brown, etc., etc.

 

[crisper57]

Watching the game again. On that safety, the line set a nice pocket for Kolb. A defender penetrated up the middle late, but Colledge picked him up. Didn't matter. Kolb was already scrambling to the right, and into the waiting arms of Kelly. If he had stayed in the pocket and had been staring downfield, he could have probably at least tossed the ball in the general direction of a receiver to avoid the sack.

 

[Shane]

Watching the game again. On that safety, the line set a nice pocket for Kolb. A defender penetrated up the middle late, but Colledge picked him up. Didn't matter. Kolb was already scrambling to the right, and into the waiting arms of Kelly. If he had stayed in the pocket and had been staring downfield, he could have probably at least tossed the ball in the general direction of a receiver to avoid the sack.

College "picked him up" as you call it when he was right in his face. The scramble was the right option. Kelly was there and got the safety. So be it. Saw too many people saying he just should have popped a throw to a WR to avoid a safety. You don't just throw it to avoid a safety in your own end zone. That's how you give up defensive TDs. I was at the game. I couldn't see an open WR there or on film. You don't force a ball in your own end zone. IMO the bad play was the one before.

 

[Phrazbit]

College "picked him up" as you call it when he was right in his face. The scramble was the right option. Kelly was there and got the safety. So be it. Saw too many people saying he just should have popped a throw to a WR to avoid a safety. You don't just throw it to avoid a safety in your own end zone. That's how you give up defensive TDs. I was at the game. I couldn't see an open WR there or on film. You don't force a ball in your own end zone. IMO the bad play was the one before.

He had either Smith or Maui'a (45 or 46 was the number) wiiiiiiide open in the flat on the right and looking back, and Doucet was looking back at the ball and was uncovered on an out route. He had options, but once he feels pressure, real or imagined, he stops looking at his WOs.

 

[Russ Smith]

College "picked him up" as you call it when he was right in his face. The scramble was the right option. Kelly was there and got the safety. So be it. Saw too many people saying he just should have popped a throw to a WR to avoid a safety. You don't just throw it to avoid a safety in your own end zone. That's how you give up defensive TDs. I was at the game. I couldn't see an open WR there or on film. You don't force a ball in your own end zone. IMO the bad play was the one before.

ANd Batiste was an absolute turnstile on that play too.

Still, I have no confidence in Kolb now.

 

[Shane]

He had either Smith or Maui'a (45 or 46 was the number) wiiiiiiide open in the flat on the right and looking back, and Doucet was looking back at the ball and was uncovered on an out route. He had options, but once he feels pressure, real or imagined, he stops looking at his WOs.

Just watched it again in slow motion. It was not either RB you listed it was Javaris James. He broke to the right and was the only option for Kolb problem is Kelly was already at the QB tanks to batiste and completely shielding James from the play. No way he could make that throw. Doucet was on the left and covered like a wet blanket by #29 of raiders he broke open after the safety. Nice try though.

 

[Shane]

ANd Batiste was an absolute turnstile on that play too.

Still, I have no confidence in Kolb now.

Just watched it again in slow motion. It was not either RB you listed it was Javaris James. He broke to the right and was the only option for Kolb problem is Kelly was already at the QB tanks to batiste and completely shielding James from the play. No way he could make that throw. Doucet was on the left and covered like a wet blanket by #29 of raiders he broke open after the safety. Nice try though.

Yup Russ.

 

[crisper57]

Game is on FSAZ right now. We can watch it all together again! Yay!

 

[clif]

Dude he had no chance on either one of those plays near the goal line. None. He maybe could have just chucked it 20 rows up. Maybe.

 

[clif]

Watching the game again. On that safety, the line set a nice pocket for Kolb. A defender penetrated up the middle late, but Colledge picked him up. Didn't matter. Kolb was already scrambling to the right, and into the waiting arms of Kelly. If he had stayed in the pocket and had been staring downfield, he could have probably at least tossed the ball in the general direction of a receiver to avoid the sack.

If you think he had a nice pocket on either one of those plays near the goal line you are out of your mind.

 

[crisper57]

Guess we don't see it the same way.

On the safety, the OL fanned and initially gave him space. One of the outside rushers twisted inside and ran across Kolb's face. The middle didn't get blown up and on the goal line, that should have been a play where he gets rid of it quick. Set. Throw.

I think they held their blocks just long enough for any pass play that they would have called in their own end zone (except Batiste, but his guy shouldn't have gotten to Kolb if he hadn't scrambled into his arms).

It was a boneheaded play call, IMO. Run it out, punt, and regroup. Kolb was set up to fail on that one.

As for the play before it, the tackles need to know where Kolb will be so they can set the depth of their blocks. I don't know of any NFL play that calls for the QB to drop back 9 yds to his goal line and spin around. His footwork is terrible.

 

[clif]

Guess we don't see it the same way.

On the safety, the OL fanned and initially gave him space. One of the outside rushers twisted inside and ran across Kolb's face. The middle didn't get blown up and on the goal line, that should have been a play where he gets rid of it quick. Set. Throw.

I think they held their blocks just long enough for any pass play that they would have called in their own end zone (except Batiste, but his guy shouldn't have gotten to Kolb if he hadn't scrambled into his arms).

It was a boneheaded play call, IMO. Run it out, punt, and regroup. Kolb was set up to fail on that one.

As for the play before it, the tackles need to know where Kolb will be so they can set the depth of their blocks. I don't know of any NFL play that calls for the QB to drop back 9 yds to his goal line and spin around. His footwork is terrible.

Throw it to who? None of the guys were even turning to look at him before he had pressure in his face.

 

[Shane]

Guess we don't see it the same way.

On the safety, the OL fanned and initially gave him space. One of the outside rushers twisted inside and ran across Kolb's face. The middle didn't get blown up and on the goal line, that should have been a play where he gets rid of it quick. Set. Throw.

I think they held their blocks just long enough for any pass play that they would have called in their own end zone (except Batiste, but his guy shouldn't have gotten to Kolb if he hadn't scrambled into his arms).

It was a boneheaded play call, IMO. Run it out, punt, and regroup. Kolb was set up to fail on that one.

As for the play before it, the tackles need to know where Kolb will be so they can set the depth of their blocks. I don't know of any NFL play that calls for the QB to drop back 9 yds to his goal line and spin around. His footwork is terrible.

Sorry bro but your just being pig headed. The safety was his smartest option nobody was open, no way he can squeeze that ball around Kelly who is shielding him completely thanks to Batiste.

 

[Darkside]

I think Kolb and Skelton both have a huge weakness in that they don't throw the ball away ever. Warner threw it into the dirt at a dude's feet quite often. Or he threw it over a guy's head. He threw the ball away. With both our QB's, the answer seems to be pass it or die. What happened to the lost art of throwing the ball away? You gotta have timing in your head and when it's up throw it away, don't make the situation worse. Neither of our QB's do that ever.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Sorry bro but your just being pig headed. The safety was his smartest option nobody was open, no way he can squeeze that ball around Kelly who is shielding him completely thanks to Batiste.

Shane, I applaud you for standing up to the anti-kolb guys.

Last night I watched the game for the first time, and Kolbs performance was not as bad as some have made it out to be.

He doesn't look "broken" or "shell shocked". The protection was poor on all of his negative plays. And, on the plays where he had good protection, he made some nice passes.

He still does, however, look skittish, and he does not seem to react very well to pressure. Since this is Skelton's strength (his pocket presence and poise), and our offensive tackles seem to be in pretty bad shape, at this point, I'm not going to argue that Kolb is the better option. And, if #19 can get us 10 wins and another banner this season, then fire him out there. I will cheer loudly for him if he plays well.

But the book is not closed on Kolb's tenure in AZ. Not yet.

 

[Duckjake]

Shane, I applaud you for standing up to the anti-kolb guys.

Last night I watched the game for the first time, and Kolbs performance was not as bad as some have made it out to be.

He doesn't look "broken" or "shell shocked". The protection was poor on all of his negative plays. And, on the plays where he had good protection, he made some nice passes.

He still does, however, look skittish, and he does not seem to react very well to pressure. Since this is Skelton's strength (his pocket presence and poise), and our offensive tackles seem to be in pretty bad shape, at this point, I'm not going to argue that Kolb is the better option. And, if #19 can get us 10 wins and another banner this season, then fire him out there. I will cheer loudly for him if he plays well.

But the book is not closed on Kolb's tenure in AZ. Not yet.

Watch some of the shots from behind Kolb. You can see he's looking at the rush from the snap not at the receivers. Of course half the time there's nobody open.

Watch these consecutive pass plays, the safety and then Oakland's next pass play. The Cards have Acho in Palmer's face in the same amount of time as the Raiders were in Kolb's. Palmer gets the ball out for a completion. Kolb gets sacked. But Batiste was getting beat on almost every pass play and Snyder, unlike the KC game where he played very well, wasn't much better and our backs are just not very effective at blitz pickup.

I don't think Kolb's done. I just think he never was.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Watch some of the shots from behind Kolb. You can see he's looking at the rush from the snap not at the receivers. Of course half the time there's nobody open.

Watch these consecutive pass plays, the safety and then Oakland's next pass play. The Cards have Acho in Palmer's face in the same amount of time as the Raiders were in Kolb's. Palmer gets the ball out for a completion. Kolb gets sacked. But Batiste was getting beat on almost every pass play and Snyder, unlike the KC game where he played very well, wasn't much better and our backs are just not very effective at blitz pickup.

I don't think Kolb's done. I just think he never was.

Duck, I said Kolb doesn't react well to pressure, okay?

Your boy Skelton was a turnover machine last year, and posted a sub-seventy QB rating over an extended number of snaps.

If #19 starts, great, I'll pull for him to lead us to victory. But the 2nd time he throws 2 ints in a half, you can bet that I'll be calling for his back-up, whoever that is.

I'm not going to ride the Skelton bandwagon if it looks like it's going over a cliff.

 

[Duckjake]

Duck, I said Kolb doesn't react well to pressure, okay?

Your boy Skelton was a turnover machine last year, and posted a sub-seventy QB rating over an extended number of snaps.

If #19 starts, great, I'll pull for him to lead us to victory. But the 2nd time he throws 2 ints in a half, you can bet that I'll be calling for his back-up, whoever that is.

I'm not going to ride the Skelton bandwagon if it looks like it's going over a cliff.

How did Skelton get into this conversation? Didn't meant to get you all riled up but I didn't know you were so in love with Kolb. All I was telling you was to look at Kolb during those plays and he was not looking for receivers. Call it what you want, skittish or whatever, that is not good QB play.

Also now that I've watched some of his play in Philly as well I don't think Kolb ever had it to begin with.

BTW if you pulled Skelton after he threw 2 INTs in a half we'd have finished 2011 3-13 and had a shot at Matt Kalil. Smart thinking.

 

[az1965]

But the 2nd time he throws 2 ints in a half, you can bet that I'll be calling for his back-up, whoever that is.

.

If that is the criterion for calling in back-ups, several of the top QB's in the league would have been benched long time ago, including Warner.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

How did Skelton get into this conversation? Didn't meant to get you all riled up but I didn't know you were so in love with Kolb. All I was telling you was to look at Kolb during those plays and he was not looking for receivers. Call it what you want, skittish or whatever, that is not good QB play.

Also now that I've watched some of his play in Philly as well I don't think Kolb ever had it to begin with.

BTW if you pulled Skelton after he threw 2 INTs in a half we'd have finished 2011 3-13 and had a shot at Matt Kalil. Smart thinking.

Love KK? I'm less vocal in my support of Kolb than you are of Skelton.

I didn't mean to sound like a d***, I'm just frustrated that I backed a player that's not playing well, but also because I think the level of criticism of Kolb is way out of proportion to how he actually played.

I brought up Skelton because he's the alternative, and what a lot people feel is the solution, to Kolb's lack of poise that you mention in your post. I wanted to remind you that the alternative might not be as good as the original option.

Trust me though Duck, I'll cheer for John, and cut him some slack, if he gets the starting nod. All I want are W's.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

If that is the criterion for calling in back-ups, several of the top QB's in the league would have been benched long time ago, including Warner.

I get your point az1965, but skelton is on a shorter leash (at least for me) than the top QBs.

Skelton has won some games, but generally, he's not played well. Not at a level that we need from our starting QB, and I'm tired of waiting for cardinal QBs (e.g. plummer, McCown, Leinart) to "develop".

Skelton is out of excuses. This year, either he shows he can play at least at an average level, or, we need to find another alternative, and that includes giving his back up a chance.