Kevin Kolb is done (IMO)

[john h]

What a massive waste of money. Somebody needs to be held accountable for the evaluation of this guy.

On most teams it would be the GM but with the Cards you never know. I guess Michael Bidwill had to approve the deal. Horrible trade as many posters noted at the time. Now it looks even worse. Oh well what is another 30-40 mil? I personally think Kolb knew he was out of it when he took the money a few months ago and he is still running backwards. Cannot blame him for that as if we are so stupid we deserve what we got.

 

[Cardiac]

Part of me sees Kolb looking skittish in the pocket.

Part of me sees there really isn't a pocket in some cases.

Part of me wonders why Bones appears to have better pockets to throw from.

Part of me thinks some of this is due to how Bones moves in and uses the pocket and because of his size and strength.

I agree with Shane in that I slow mowed the safety play and I didn't see any options for Kolb.

I also see Kolb run into sacks at times and at other times make a nice play when being in the middle of a pass rush storm.

I can't see Kolb's eye level from my TV vantage point but don't doubt anyone who says they can.

I don't think Kolb's play in this last preseason game warrents him being cut or ends the competition. I do believe that Bones has the lead and game 4 will decide who the starter is.

Heard Wolf and Pasch state before the opening KO that Whiz was not going to play the starting Oline beyond the 2nd QTR. When Levi goes down I think Whiz decides that he will stick with the original plan and that he doesn't want Bones playing behind the 2nd team Oline.

Of course we will have our conspiracy theorists who think Whiz is trying to set Bones up to fail but as usual that's just crazy talk, IMO.

I think Bones is on course based on his draft position and college experience. I might actually put him ahead of schedule so while the common theory is that accuracy can't be coached up much I am confident he will show marked improvement this year.

My main worry at this point is the loss of Levi. Typical Card luck that the most durable Olineman gets injured.

 

[WarnerHOF]

What a massive waste of money. Somebody needs to be held accountable for the evaluation of this guy.

This. If the Cards don't go over 8-8 this year than it might be time to fire Whiz and promote Horton. That's only if Horton doesn't promises not to keep Russ Grimm of course.

 

[kerouac9]

Love KK? I'm less vocal in my support of Kolb than you are of Skelton.

I didn't mean to sound like a d***, I'm just frustrated that I backed a player that's not playing well, but also because I think the level of criticism of Kolb is way out of proportion to how he actually played.

I brought up Skelton because he's the alternative, and what a lot people feel is the solution, to Kolb's lack of poise that you mention in your post. I wanted to remind you that the alternative might not be as good as the original option.

Trust me though Duck, I'll cheer for John, and cut him some slack, if he gets the starting nod. All I want are W's.

Really? What level of criticism is warranted based on his level of play?

Kolb this preseason has a rating of 15.1. His net yardage (passing yardage minus sacks) is 20 yards on 19 attempts.

His net passing average last year was 5.9 YPA.

He's just as bad as Blaine Gabbert, but has been in the league five times as long and is making four times the money.

 

[Duckjake]

Skelton is out of excuses. This year, either he shows he can play at least at an average level, or, we need to find another alternative, and that includes giving his back up a chance.

Skelton has shown he can play at an above average level. But that aside it is time for him to step up. It's his 3rd year and he's had a full off season really for the first time in the NFL. We need to see more games like SF2 and no more games like SF1.

Remember Eli Manning didn't exactly set the world on fire his 2nd season. His last 8 games he had 12ints to 10 TDs and only two games all season where he completed 60% or more of his passes. 11 games he was under 55%. He had a 27.9 QB rating vs Dallas and a 39.5 vs the Vikings. Except for his 14-4 TD to INT ratio the first 8 games the stats look rather similar to what Double Deuce did last season.

Manning didn't get his completion % above 60 until his 5th NFL season.

Skelton isn't Manning (yet . But those numbers are evidence that you don't give up on a guy his first couple of years because he has sub par statistics. Especially when you are winning games with him at QB.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Really? What level of criticism is warranted based on his level of play?

Kolb this preseason has a rating of 15.1. His net yardage (passing yardage minus sacks) is 20 yards on 19 attempts.

His net passing average last year was 5.9 YPA.

He's just as bad as Blaine Gabbert, but has been in the league five times as long and is making four times the money.

Criticism of Kolb should not include conjecture passed off as fact related to his attitude on the field (e.g. "he's checked out mentally", "he's shell shocked and gun shy" "he's scared" and "he was looking at the refs when being chased by the defensive players").

Additionally, just because Skelton has, during this preseason, experienced better pass protection, we should not draw the conclusion that "Kolb's offensive teammates don't believe in him, and they clearly prefer Skelton".

All of the above criticisms are are not appropriate based on what we've seen on the field.

Again, I'm not apologizing for Kolb, and I would agree with the conclusion that this preseason, during a limited number of snaps, he's played poorly. But, he did lead our first team offense to a TD against OAK's first team defense. I think he deserves a little credit for that. And, I'm holding out hope that he can perform competently if we have to start him this year.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Skelton has shown he can play at an above average level. But that aside it is time for him to step up. It's his 3rd year and he's had a full off season really for the first time in the NFL. We need to see more games like SF2 and no more games like SF1.

Remember Eli Manning didn't exactly set the world on fire his 2nd season. His last 8 games he had 12ints to 10 TDs and only two games all season where he completed 60% or more of his passes. 11 games he was under 55%. He had a 27.9 QB rating vs Dallas and a 39.5 vs the Vikings. Except for his 14-4 TD to INT ratio the first 8 games the stats look rather similar to what Double Deuce did last season.

Manning didn't get his completion % above 60 until his 5th NFL season.

Skelton isn't Manning (yet . But those numbers are evidence that you don't give up on a guy his first couple of years because he has sub par statistics. Especially when you are winning games with him at QB.

You're correct Duck. The win against SF was great, and a legitimate reason to believe Skelton can eventually be a very good, or even a great, QB. I should have been more clear about my 2012 expectations for #19, and that is I want him to play at an at least average level (QB rating of 80) for an entire season.

Also, please don't start lobbying for Skelton to get multiple "development" seasons. I'm not saying you are, I'm just asking you (nicely, I said please ) not to start doing so. If Skelton can't at least be average in 2012(and no one else steps up at QB during the season), I want the Cardinals to draft the highest rated QB available during the 2013 draft.

Have a good week sir!

Best regards,

 

[Duckjake]

You're correct Duck. The win against SF was great, and a legitimate reason to believe Skelton can eventually be a very good, or even a great, QB. I should have been more clear about my 2012 expectations for #19, and that is I want him to play at an at least average level (QB rating of 80) for an entire season.

Also, please don't start lobbying for Skelton to get multiple "development" seasons. I'm not saying you are, I'm just asking you (nicely, I said please ) not to start doing so. If Skelton can't at least be average in 2012(and no one else steps up at QB during the season), I want the Cardinals to draft the highest rated QB available during the 2013 draft.

Have a good week sir!

Best regards,

Sorry, but it is in the ASFN Manual Section 23 subsection D2 paragraph 3 that we have to post that every player who struggles "just needs more time".

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Skelton has shown he can play at an above average level. But that aside it is time for him to step up. It's his 3rd year and he's had a full off season really for the first time in the NFL. We need to see more games like SF2 and no more games like SF1.

Remember Eli Manning didn't exactly set the world on fire his 2nd season. His last 8 games he had 12ints to 10 TDs and only two games all season where he completed 60% or more of his passes. 11 games he was under 55%. He had a 27.9 QB rating vs Dallas and a 39.5 vs the Vikings. Except for his 14-4 TD to INT ratio the first 8 games the stats look rather similar to what Double Deuce did last season.

Manning didn't get his completion % above 60 until his 5th NFL season.

Skelton isn't Manning (yet . But those numbers are evidence that you don't give up on a guy his first couple of years because he has sub par statistics. Especially when you are winning games with him at QB.

It's sort of funny how little time they give most QBs to prove that they are going to be a franchise type QB. It seems like a handful of games is all one has these days. Manning was obviously an exception, probably because he was a number 1 draft choice that cost the Giants a fortune.

But still it makes you wonder how good and more productive so many QBs might have been if they were given half the time as Manning. To me it is a ridiculous part of the NFL .... you gotta win now or you must not be worth keeping.

Skelton is built as an ideal NFL QB with all the tangibles. He is just what you dream of for a QB. So why not turn him loose, knowing he will have bad games (who doesn't), but will get better and better each year if we would just let him and show complete confidence in him. I would much rather go 8-8 with him, while he learns and grows better and better. Changing and gambling on rookie QBs every year gets you nowhere. I am sick of that.

Lets just let him learn to lead us to a championship as we build an OL and improve our D over the next few years. Unless he shows that he is mentally incapable of learning and leading a team, he is our best shot for the near future. We could draft 3 1st round QBs in the next 3 yrs and none of them may be or do better than he could.

 

[PitchShifter]

If you think he had a nice pocket on either one of those plays near the goal line you are out of your mind.

I was watching the game again today, and here's a screenshot from the safety.

You must be registered for see images attach

Edit: And in fairness, here's the back shot so Qb perspective is clearer.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Duckjake]

2 guys running 3 yard curl routes. I love it.

 

[D-Dogg]

2 guys running 3 yard curl routes. I love it.

It's not bad if you're running a crossing route behind them, and hoping to bait that linebacker to jump the curls and hit the cross instead....but...there's nobody crossing.

 

[Duckjake]

Odd play call from your own 1 yard line.

 

[BigRedRage]

ugh at the elevate horton lines. a year ago everyone was irritated we signed horton instead of pitts LB coach, now he is suddenly the messiah.

 

[Shane]

ugh at the elevate horton lines. a year ago everyone was irritated we signed horton instead of pitts LB coach, now he is suddenly the messiah.

And wanted him fired in the first 7 weeks.

 

[Phrazbit]

Odd play call from your own 1 yard line.

The TE went up the seam, there is a RB running out in the flat and I am not sure where Larry's route was supposed to take him after he passed Doucet.

Those 3 yard curls I am pretty sure were intended to avoid what ended up happening.

And thank you for those screen shots. It shows, conclusively, that not only did Kolb have options... he had 3 of them, one of them completely uncovered.

 

[BigRedRage]

The TE went up the seam, there is a RB running out in the flat and I am not sure where Larry's route was supposed to take him after he passed Doucet.

Those 3 yard curls I am pretty sure were intended to avoid what ended up happening.

And thank you for those screen shots. It shows, conclusively, that not only did Kolb have options... he had 3 of them, one of them completely uncovered.

your in the end zone THROW THE DAMN BALL a 40 yard pick is better than a safety.

 

[Shane]

The TE went up the seam, there is a RB running out in the flat and I am not sure where Larry's route was supposed to take him after he passed Doucet.

Those 3 yard curls I am pretty sure were intended to avoid what ended up happening.

And thank you for those screen shots. It shows, conclusively, that not only did Kolb have options... he had 3 of them, one of them completely uncovered.

LMAO?? What options?? Do tell? Both Guys are covered on the curl routes. You dont throw a ball for the sake of throwing a ball in the end zone.

 

[Phrazbit]

LMAO?? What options?? Do tell? Both Guys are covered on the curl routes. You dont throw a ball for the sake of throwing a ball in the end zone.

If you are not willing to throw to a receiver in single coverage who has position, then you dont belong in the league, even if he is scared of a pick he can throw it at their damn feet, Kolb specializes in that throw anyway. And once again, the running back is totally uncovered.

 

[kerouac9]

LMAO?? What options?? Do tell? Both Guys are covered on the curl routes. You dont throw a ball for the sake of throwing a ball in the end zone.

Floyd is covered on the left; no doubt about that. Doucet is open on the right; he has leverage position.

I know you'll do whatever it takes to make the signing of Kevin Kolb not look like a huge mistake, but you do throw the ball for the sake of not giving up 2 points and possession in the end zone. You'd think that teams give up a dozen safeties a year based on how Kolb and Skelton gave them up.

There are certainly safe places to deliver the ball in that situation. If Kolb hasn't learned after 5 years in the league that sometimes it's better just to punt and move on than run around until someone holds or you get sacked, he's completely helpless at this point.

 

[Shane]

If you are not willing to throw to a receiver in single coverage who has position, then you dont belong in the league, even if he is scared of a pick he can throw it at their damn feet, Kolb specializes in that throw anyway. And once again, the running back is totally uncovered.

The RB is uncovered and what those still screen shots dotn tell you or show you is time. time to react and watch it unfold. Watched it over and over in real and slow motion. That throw to the RB is impossible to make. IMPOSSIBLE.

Both of those WR's arent even through their respective route or looking for the ball yet. The CB on Floyd has the inside to Floyds route if he wants it. Doucett is cover even closer and not to mention shielded by a wall of OL and DL in that screen shot. You dont throw a floater over the top in this instance you need I to be a laser. You a hater we all get it. But his option on this play were ZERO.

 

[Phrazbit]

The RB is uncovered and what those still screen shots dotn tell you or show you is time. time to react and watch it unfold. Watched it over and over in real and slow motion. That throw to the RB is impossible to make. IMPOSSIBLE.

Both of those WR's arent even through their respective route or looking for the ball yet. The CB on Floyd has the inside to Floyds route if he wants it. Doucett is cover even closer and not to mention shielded by a wall of OL and DL in that screen shot. You dont throw a floater over the top in this instance you need I to be a laser. You a hater we all get it. But his option on this play were ZERO.

Yeah yeah yeah, I am a hater... because I was ahead of the curve on Kolb.

Once again, throwing at Floyd's feet is a much better option than taking a safety, Doucet has leverage on his man. Even one of his patented ducks to Fitz is a better play. He is snapping from the one (because he butchered a play from the 10), he needs to make a very quick decision and he froze... as per usual.

 

[kerouac9]

The RB is uncovered and what those still screen shots dotn tell you or show you is time. time to react and watch it unfold. Watched it over and over in real and slow motion. That throw to the RB is impossible to make. IMPOSSIBLE.

Both of those WR's arent even through their respective route or looking for the ball yet. The CB on Floyd has the inside to Floyds route if he wants it. Doucett is cover even closer and not to mention shielded by a wall of OL and DL in that screen shot. You dont throw a floater over the top in this instance you need I to be a laser. You a hater we all get it. But his option on this play were ZERO.

Pro quarterbacks don't need or take time to react and watch it unfold. It's why it's the most important position in sports. There's something about them that digests an incredible amount of information immediately and just feel what's going to take place and where the ball is supposed to go.

Kolb clearly doesn't have that ability.

 

[Shane]

Pro quarterbacks don't need or take time to react and watch it unfold. It's why it's the most important position in sports. There's something about them that digests an incredible amount of information immediately and just feel what's going to take place and where the ball is supposed to go.

Kolb clearly doesn't have that ability.

Oh no argument that a QB should know where all players are in their routes. He clearly panics. I agree. He will be on the bench week 1 due to this fact.

But in real time watching this play unfold panicker or not.. He had no REAL options on this play other than to throw it up for a possible INT. Or ground it inside the tackle box risking a safety anyway. No more no less.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Yeah, I quoted Lombardi saying that last year. He went on an ESPN podcast right at the end of the lockout and when Kolb was mentioned and the potential trade market he went on and on about how Kolb did not stand out on film, talked about the "low eye level" thing and said he thought he would end up in Seattle and that they would be back in the QB market soon after.

Personally, I thought he seemed to be like a right handed Matt Leinart when I saw him playing for Philly. Just a bit more mobile. I was against the trade because I thought he would be extremely mediocre and have a low ceiling and I didnt want the Cards to commit to such an average prospect.

I really never imagined he would be this bad.[/QUOTE




Miami came out and flat out said Kolb sucked and wasnt worth a second round pick