Key Phrase in Urban's Latest Propaganda Piece

[kerouac9]

K-9, I believe that you are hanging an awful lot on the phrase, (as Keim reshapes the roster into his vision). Taking that to mean that BA has little to say about the personnel he is being given seems to be without a whole lot of merit.

If indeed BA has no influence on incoming personnel, why do each of them seem to have personal connections to either BA or some member of his staff, (or both). BA seems to be totally happy with the acquisitions being made, and has gone to much length to talk about the individual attributes of each new hire as they came aboard.

That one little phrase seems likely to be more a loosely worded one to cover for the fact that these decisions are really a team effort. After all, much, much more has been written about these decisions being Cardinal's Decisions, and are not attributed to any one person. With all that has been disclosed about how this management group studied the lists of available players; then how they looked to their roster to determine who was causing cap problems; then they selected players to replace those cut with comparable players, (already known to the new staff). It would seem out of place to put all the decision making on Keim, simply because he is the one who pulls the trigger as GM of the management group.

I am not saying that Keim doesn't have a great deal of influence here, but to conclude that he is the one making all the selections without assistance from the scouting department AND the Coaching Staff seems to me to be a little far fetched. Also, to place so much credence to one small phrase, when we do not even know the exact context it was meant for, seems weak. The writer actually could be referring to the fact that Keim has room to work because he has made money available, as opposed to the fact that he alone makes all the decisions.

I think that Arians had a say on the minimum-salary guys that came in, and almost no say in the talented players that we let leave. It's difficult to believe that Arians would have okayed letting two very talented players like Kerry Rhodes and Adrian Wilson leave and replacing them with a has-been and a never was in Yeremiah Bell and Rashad Johnson.

Notice that there's nothing that says that Arians or Bowles are high on Rashard Johnson--in fact, the silence for Todd Bowles about the transformation of this defense has been deafening--but tons of quotes from Steve Keim saying that he was really impressed with how Rhodes played down the stretch.

It's likely that Johnson was a pick endoresed by Keim, and he's doubling down on a draft pick that has severely underperformed expectations.

I do think that cheese is being unfair in putting the onus of bad first-round picks on Keim. He shares that responsibility with Whis and Graves, and the majority of the blame for first-round picks lies with the head coach.

But the bad to mediocre players that we've drafted in the last four or five years? That's all on Keim.

 

[TJ]

Jury is still out on Keim, but I for one hated keeping him.



Everyone talks about how much the Cards have failed in picking up Olineman,picking quality talent in the 1st round (granted theyve been great picking in the 2nd round +), getting a QB, etc.

Keim was part of all that. The Cards failure sans Warner is just as much on Keim as it was on Graves.


Very nervous about this guy

Graves was the decision maker along with Whiz and Michael. I think you're overvaluing Keim's influence in the war room during the Graves era when he was merely an assistant.

Being apart of it and being the final decision maker are two vastly different things. Is it reasonable to assume that the owner of the team, the HC with final say over personnel moves, and the GM are more responsible for many of the bad draft picks than one of the assistants?

 

[Gee!]

Arians goes on the hot seat in 2015

2015? I expect him to be fired within in 2 years tops..

And I do not believe for one second that Keim decided to go get players solely based upon that they knew or played for the coaches in the past..

 

[binkar]

I've been saying for a while that Arians has little control over the makeup of this roster and the personnel moves being made by the front office.

I don't necessarily agree with this. A number of the players brought in had relationships with Arians or other members of the staff. That at very least suggests Keim takes heavy input from Bruce. I think that's a better indicator than a simple phrase taken from an article by Urban.

Keim has final say, but I don't see that as a problem at all.

 

[Dayman]

I don't necessarily agree with this. A number of the players brought in had relationships with Arians or other members of the staff. That at very least suggests Keim takes heavy input from Bruce. I think that's a better indicator than a simple phrase taken from an article by Urban.

Keim has final say, but I don't see that as a problem at all.

I'm with you.

Powers, Stanton and Mendenhall are all well-known BA guys. They were also the first three FAs to sign here this spring. I don't think it's a coincidence.

And people have been wanting a stronger willed GM around here for years. I understand the trepidation about that GM being hired from within, but I personally expected and hoped that Keim would take the reins and shape this roster. That's his job. Let the coaches coach and the general managers manage. As long as the lines of communication remain open, it's a proven formula for success.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Darren works for the Cardinals. A main part of his job is to get the news out about the Cardinals. I think he does this well. It stands to reason that he's not going to be critical of the people who pay him. But it's to his credit that IMO, he seldom if ever hands out heavy doses of Kool-Aid either.

I disagree with K-9's depiction of Darren's output as "propaganda pieces." It's inaccurate and it's unfair.

I have noticed that even in his replies on his blog he rarely puts his opinion into anything. He pretty much just gets the facts out there and in a way it is refreshing.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Not all of the items are propaganda pieces, but lately they have. No one should confuse what Darren Urban does as "journalism." He used to do journalism, when he worked for the EVT. Now he writes PR pieces.

Where is the line between aggressive PR and propaganda?

Good question, and I have no idea. I am a numbers guy, not a words guy. But good question none the less.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

After suffering thorugh a decade plus of Rod Graves, I'm willing to give Keim some time before making any decisions. I have my doubts but will take a wait and see approach.

I don't hate what he has done so far, but we will see what he does when it comes to keeping the star players around.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Rolle has had a very nice career in the NFL.

Drafted as a CB, had to move to safety, played one year at safety for us and left. Don't see how his success with the Giants helped the Cardinals.

Leinart was a bust but hindsight is 20/20 that was the right pick to make at the time, you have to remember that.

Have to give you that.

Levi is not as bad as people make him out to be especially after seeing his replacement last year, yikes talking about Batiste, but still a solid pro

This is said every offseason, and by week 3 reality sets in. He is not a solid OT. He has had a 1/2 a season of marginal success. We had a rookie 7th
round pick come out and play as well as him last season.

DRC turned into an all pro from a small school traded for the supposed quarterback of the future, didn't really work out but was still an all pro here. Note he didn't work oy in Philly but that whole team was a mess

Never questioned the trade but, DRC is a flake, and it started while he was in AZ. BTW, when was DRC an all pro ? Pro Bowl is COMPLETELY different then All Pro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Rodgers-Cromartie

Beanie was at the very back of the first round, his body just failed him. Bust buy because injury

Horrible pick, and the pick that sank Whiz and that regime. Wells was an unneeded pick, and a woeful lack of judgement of the BPA. He was labeled as injury prone, and turned out to be injury prone. Its OK we passed on Connor Barwin cause we went for a pass rusher in round 2.

Dan Williams another at the back of the first round. I actually really like Dan Williams and think he's a very solid player he quietly does his job

Dan Williams is currently winning this year's Kerry Rhodes award for under appreciation for the job he is doing. He is a NT, it is not a glamor position, but he played very well last year in his role. He will be needed A LOT more this year, and I expect him to play well, since the has already been doing so.

Peterson is Peterson

Damn right.

Hopefully after next year, we can say Warmack is Warmack.

Like you said jury is still out on Floyd but I loved what I seen towards the end of the year

Where Beanie Wells started the decline of the Whiz regime this pick finished it off. HORRIBLE pick. Did nothing to help the team when there was AT LEAST 3 players that would have bettered the team in places they needed to get better. (Glenn, Hightower, Jones)

I have not really seen too much out of Floyd that makes me think that his ceiling is not, AT BEST, a #2 WR in the NFL. Besides his blocking, I am not very optimistic about Floyd.


Cool breakdown, tho. After that cool article that was posted about 2 weeks ago, we should look at the 2nd round picks as well.

It seems in drafts that your biggest values for all positions are in the 1st and 2nd rounds, with a big drop off in the 3rd round.

Thus if you are not hitting on most of your 1st and 2nd rounders then you are not going to have much talent on that team.

Second Round Picks:

2005: JJ Arrington - Horrible

2006: Deuce Lutui - Fat

2007: Alan Branch - Man, I loved this pick when we did it. Turned out well for Seattle, but currently at 28 years old, in his prime, cannot find a job in free agency. Guy is a waste of natural talents. Just fired his agent, cause its obviously his fault Branch doesn't have a job. EDIT: Stupid Branch, always making me look stupid. Just read the Packers are interested in him.

2008: Calias Campbell - Home run pick right there. Campbell is an absolute stud, and the Cardinals did a great job of extending him when his rookie contract was up.

2009: Cody Brown - Out of the league in 3 years, never did ANYTHING for the Cardinals. Horrible pick. Complete bust.

2010: Daryl Washington - See Calais Campbell. K9 loves this guy

2011: Ryan Williams - Beanie Wells part II. The Cardinals made the same mistake with Williams that they did with Wells. How is a known, injury prone running back going to help a team that has GLARING issues at OL, and OLBer ?

2012: [Kevin Kolb] -

 

[Garthshort]

2015, BA goes on the hot seat. I think he'll be more likely to go to Assisted Living.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

buy the reality of the situation is he really not that great

His numbers, the plays he made, and the success the defense had with him on the field says he was pretty damn good.

Hts not going to make or break this team

Agreed.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm with you.

Powers, Stanton and Mendenhall are all well-known BA guys. They were also the first three FAs to sign here this spring. I don't think it's a coincidence.

And people have been wanting a stronger willed GM around here for years. I understand the trepidation about that GM being hired from within, but I personally expected and hoped that Keim would take the reins and shape this roster. That's his job. Let the coaches coach and the general managers manage. As long as the lines of communication remain open, it's a proven formula for success.

I agree with the master of karate and friendship

 

[unseenaz]

nice post K9. I've never really thought that Arians had no say in the roster makeup (Or at least as little as you say he does) I think the coach should have FULL say, and the GM should be there to FACILITATE whatever the coach wants/needs. If money is an option, tell the coach to go with a cheaper option.

Look what the Dbacks did, let Kirk Gibson build the roster the way he wanted, to include dumping fan favorite and notorious lazy man JUP

 

[BigRedRage]

I agree with the master of karate and friendship

for everyone.

Thanks for fighting the nightman, dayman.

 

[Chopper0080]

What I find is most interesting is Urban actually confirming what some of us have thought all along. I don't know if it is to continue to offer reason to why Whis was let go or some other agenda.

Overall, I like the structure of the GM having the most significant and final say in reagrds to personnel. What I question is Keim's ability to bring in quality FAs, draft better players, and continue to keep the majority of our best players around. I question this because of Keim being a part of the previous front office regime.

As for Arians, facts are if the Cardinals can't find a QB he will be gone in 2 or 3 years regardless of anythign else. I can't say Keim has done him any favors this offseason in regards to improving the overall talent level of this team but a good QB solves everything. I will believe it when I see it.

Edited because I can't think this AM. Thanks WildBB

 

[WildBB]

What I find is most interesting is Urban actually confirming what some of us have thought all along. I don't know if it is to continue to offer reason to why Whis was let go or some other agenda.

Overall, I like the structure of the GM having the most significant and final say in reagrds to personnel. What I question is Keim's ability to bring in quality FAs, draft better players, and continue to keep the majority of our best players around. I question this because of Keim being a part of the previous front office regime.

As for Arians, facts are if the Cardinals can't find a QB he will be gone in 2 or 3 years regardless of anythign else. I can't say Keim has done him any favors this offseason in regards to improving the overall talent level of this team but a good QB solves everything. I will see it when I believe it.

Flip it.

Next yr. for our QBOF. Until then we continue to build.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't necessarily agree with this. A number of the players brought in had relationships with Arians or other members of the staff. That at very least suggests Keim takes heavy input from Bruce. I think that's a better indicator than a simple phrase taken from an article by Urban.

Keim has final say, but I don't see that as a problem at all.

Cards got rid of two good, expensive players, and then added three cheap players Arians have relationships with.

It's like selling off your kid's iPad but letting him choose his own Tamagotchi.

 

[Buckybird]

Next yr. for our QBOF. Until then we continue to build.

I've heard that since the days of Lomax & those fools tried to replace him with a pile of trash in Stouffer.

Unless you take a QB in Rd 1 of the NFL these days (9 times out of 10), drafting a QB anyplace else is basically a waste.

 

[WildBB]

I've heard that since the days of Lomax & those fools tried to replace him with a pile of trash in Stouffer.

Unless you take a QB in Rd 1 of the NFL these days (9 times out of 10), drafting a QB anyplace else is basically a waste.

And sometimes in Rd. 1 too.

 

[machgman]

If anyone thinks Brown is good when compared to a un-skilled, ill-prepared, and totally out of his element Baptiste, that view needs to be tempered with the fact the other than the rookies, their were no NFL caliber backups on the roster, as evidenced by the lack of NFL interest in any of them except for the one who recently signed with Whisenhunt at San Diego.

BTW, Winston is still out there and seems to have faced reality that there will be no huge contracts for the remaining OL FAs out there. Perhaps the Cards will swoop in and sigh him to a one year contract where he can re-test the market next year. Winston would be light years better than anyone on the roster right now.

 

[kerouac9]

I've heard that since the days of Lomax & those fools tried to replace him with a pile of trash in Stouffer.

Unless you take a QB in Rd 1 of the NFL these days (9 times out of 10), drafting a QB anyplace else is basically a waste.

Only if you're only intention of drafting a player is to make him a starter. We're slated to pay Brian Hoyer a little more than $2M this year, and Drew Stanton $3M. One of those guys are going to be paid too much to hopefully not have to play.

The primary upside of drafted mid- to late-round QBs is that you get surety at the backup QB position for six figures a year instead of seven. The secondary upside is that if you have to put a mid-round QB on the field, and he performs well, you can flip that player into an early-round draft pick, as San Diego did with Clipboard Jesus and Philly did with a handful of players.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What's your point. If you are laying all these on Keim's back you're wrong.

good lord... did I EVER lay them on Keim's back? the guy made a comment that we've been drafting first round picks pretty well lately and I disagreed and showed why. THAT'S MY POINT.

He had little if any input on these hires. He only began to slowly have more influence in 2011, and finally in 2012 he was made a VP and you can see that he definitely influenced the drafting of OL who could pass protect at that time. We scored with Massie, Potter and Kelemete.

Massie looks like he could be a decent player, but I don't know how anyone can say Potter and Kelemete are hits already.

And what exactly are you basing the idea that Keim only started to have influence in 2011? Care to provide any kind of actual evidence of this claim? Has he been in the front office for a decade?

I would agree that Keim now has a lot of power, but to say that these hires are his is far fetched,

AGAIN... WHERE DID I SAY THESE WERE HIS CALLS? I merely responded to FINITO'S point about our first round picks. Good god man... you're trying to start fights where nothing's even been said about Keim.

 

[john h]

I've been saying for a while that Arians has little control over the makeup of this roster and the personnel moves being made by the front office. As much as the propaganda arm is a reflection of the operations within Hardy Drive, this seems to be the case.

Don't get to used to Bruce Arians and his Kangol hats; I don't expect him to be around long with the "weapons" he's being given by the front office. It won't be his fault.

Let's say that the team's offense improves slightly in 2013 and declines slightly on defense. We end up with the same record against a tough schedule. 5-11.

Next year we get a quarterback, but he struggles as rookies tend to do, especially against a strong division. 6-10.

Arians goes on the hot seat in 2015, the winter of the Cards will have 5 important pending free agents, including Patrick Peterson.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/2015/arizona-cardinals/

Arron Rogers is about to be extended. I think I heard it would be at $27 million a year. Wowsers!! Can you ever picture seeing the Cards paying that much for anyone?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I do think that cheese is being unfair in putting the onus of bad first-round picks on Keim. He shares that responsibility with Whis and Graves, and the majority of the blame for first-round picks lies with the head coach.

WHA? Where are you guys getting this that I'm putting the onus of blame for bad first round picks on Keim? Finito said we've done pretty well drafting in the first round the last couple years and i disagreed.

 

[kerouac9]

WHA? Where are you guys getting this that I'm putting the onus of blame for bad first round picks on Keim? Finito said we've done pretty well drafting in the first round the last couple years and i disagreed.

Fair enough. My concern with Keim is that while he's drafted some contributors in the mid- to late-rounds, he hasn't been able to identify guys who develop into starters the franchise feels are worth keeping around. That's the greater concern with me.

As I said, I don't really fault Keim for bad or disappointing first round picks. I fault him quite a bit for bad or disappointing third-round picks. Keim has had a Director-level position or higher since 2008. Catfish is being ill-informed at best and disingenuous at worst in implying that he's been little more than another regional scout until 2012.