Knicks @ Suns Friday game thread 1-3-20

[Suns_fan69]

During Monty's interview this morning w/ 98.7, he raved about DA and his aggressiveness, which he said would come with more experience as it normally takes big men more time to mature physically on the court. This is one of the fundamental problems in the league today. Had Ayton played at UofA for 3-4 years, he'd probably come out of college averaging 23/12 his rookie season, but as a OAD player, he still needs time to grow and mature.

The potential for greatness is apparent and he's improving considerably in the areas with which fans are concerned. Ayton just has to hone it all in.

Eh, I don't buy it. It's one thing if he's raw and rough around the edges, skill-wise. But the thing I (and I believe most others) have issue with is his drive and aggression. Compare against a rookie Amare and there's no question who, at least on the court, had that killer instinct. I also don't believe it's something that can be learned; you either have it or you don't. I can't think offhand of an example of someone who developed that later in their career.

That being said, DA is who we have and no amount of wishing is going to change that. If he can keep up his defensive presence and rebounding he's shown so far this year and he can still be a great piece of the puzzle.

 

[SirStefan32]

First off, great to see a win! As for Ayton, I think he looks more aggressive on defense. I wish he'd be more aggressive on offense, but I am happy with how he is playing. I try to remove Luka from the picture when thinking about Ayton's progress. Luka is so unique that you can't use him for any kind of a comparison. Ayton is efficient, has a nice jumper, nice hook shot, and he rebounds well. He is more aggressive on defense now as well. I am also really impressed with Oubre. He has been huge for this team.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[mjb21aztd]

Good win by the suns sadly i crashed before half lol

Great to see booker and obure ball

Also goid to see ayton with another double digit rebound gm

Wish our rookies would improve a little. And 1 yr players i still like bridges cam addition

 

[Chaplin]

Surprised nobody has pointed out that NOBODY on this team does pick and rolls well. I blame coaching a bit in that, but I also blame the fact that Rubio has played with Ayton for only a few games so far.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Surprised nobody has pointed out that NOBODY on this team does pick and rolls well. I blame coaching a bit in that, but I also blame the fact that Rubio has played with Ayton for only a few games so far.

I think Baynes does pretty well.

 

[Chaplin]

I think Baynes does pretty well.

You do? That’s surprising. I don’t think he does. His few shots at the basket are either on breaks (rare) or in broken plays. Most if his points certainly seem to be coming from the 3-point line.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Doncic can average 27/7/7 for his career, but if Ayton can give us 20/11 and solid interior presence throughout his career, I'd think the Suns made the right choice when we already have Booker. We'll see how it plays out over the years.

Where do you get 20 ppg? This season he’s averaging 14.6 ppg (regression) his efg% (which everyone crowed about) is .500 (big regression) and he’s taking one less FT/game than last season (regression - and I didn’t even think that was possible). His rebounds are up and his blocks are up (1.4 - still below what I’d prefer to see). And focusing on him still shows a guy that’s just not working hard throughout the entire game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not completely true. Stats are inflated in the current NBA so it is very dificult to compare numbers to players of past generations.

Uh then that also devalues Ayton’s 20/11.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Where do you get 20 ppg? This season he’s averaging 14.6 ppg (regression) his efg% (which everyone crowed about) is .500 (big regression) and he’s taking one less FT/game than last season (regression - and I didn’t even think that was possible). His rebounds are up and his blocks are up (1.4 - still below what I’d prefer to see). And focusing on him still shows a guy that’s just not working hard throughout the entire game.

I think I will give him more than four games before I start looking at averages.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

right. he's totally not an MVP candidate already besides the numbers.

also, your stats argument undercuts a 20/11 Ayton impact as well.

Lol. Borg

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Playing Ayton and Baynes also allows them to get 2 of their 6 best players on the court for more minutes.


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Yeah but I think 29 mins is too much for baynes. Not in terms of his effectiveness but in terms of his staying healthy.

 

[devilalum]

Yeah but I think 29 mins is too much for baynes. Not in terms of his effectiveness but in terms of his staying healthy.

Maybe but he’s too good to just be Ayton’s backup.


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not completely true. While I do believe that stats are inflated overall, I believe they are much more inflated for perimeter players than they are for big men who play mostly inside. Rules changes have been made over the past 20-30 years specifically to make life easier for perimeter players, not interior ones. Also him being an MVP candidate (even though he is only good on one end of the floor) is only comparing him to other players in the league now. It doesn't do much to help with comparing him to players of previous generations.

A) he only plays against and thus should be compared against current players for mvp. And that’s really the only thing that matters. If he’s the best in this generation he’s the best. Doesn’t matter in the woulda coulda shoulda debates.

B) 2 points from the perimeter is 2 points from the interior. You’re trying to back outta your own argument is laughable.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sorta cursing it but I see Tony Parker

What?!? Parker was quicker than almost every player against which he played. Jerome is like the anti-Parker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The best thing that has been happening lately is Kelly’s 3 pt shooting.

if he can shoot anywhere near this well consistently he is a legit number 2/3 scoring option.

Unsustainable

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Andre Miller is the poster boy

But I don’t think Jerome can be the bully that Miller was. He has to become a sniper to succeed imo.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Doncic is better than Ayton. Conceded. He will most likely be better than Ayton for his career. The Suns still made a very good choice with Ayton, not the best choice, but a good one. No team is going to get the best player at every position it drafts.

If the Bull had drafted Barkley instead of Jordan, should the Chicago fans spend the next 10 years ripping the ownership for the choice?

Hopefully, at some point, we will just be able to move on.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe but he’s too good to just be Ayton’s backup.


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I think he can play at the same time as Ayton but he’s likely best at around 20-22 mins per game.

 

[devilalum]

I think he can play at the same time as Ayton but he’s likely best at around 20-22 mins per game.

Depends on the matchups too.


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[Bufalay]

Doncic is better than Ayton. Conceded. He will most likely be better than Ayton for his career. The Suns still made a very good choice with Ayton, not the best choice, but a good one. No team is going to get the best player at every position it drafts.

If the Bull had drafted Barkley instead of Jordan, should the Chicago fans spend the next 10 years ripping the ownership for the choice?

Hopefully, at some point, we will just be able to move on.

Maybe drafting Barkley would’ve been ok, but what if they picked Sam Perkins?

 

[GatorAZ]

Kelly has me eating my words lately. He’s been awesome and more of a complete player than previous stretches. Emphasis on stretches though. Still great to see.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Doncic is better than Ayton. Conceded. He will most likely be better than Ayton for his career. The Suns still made a very good choice with Ayton, not the best choice, but a good one. No team is going to get the best player at every position it drafts.

If the Bull had drafted Barkley instead of Jordan, should the Chicago fans spend the next 10 years ripping the ownership for the choice?

Hopefully, at some point, we will just be able to move on.

Yeah I don’t really consider doncic at this point when thinking about Ayton. My frustrations and hopes for Ayton are mostly in a vacuum about Ayton. I just find myself responding about doncic when I see other people make, what I believe to be, silly arguments about him or comparisons to Ayton that seem stupid to me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Depends on the matchups too.


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Agreed