Kobe strikes again

[abomb]

I can't imaginr how Kobe would have reacted if he had to play against Paul Silas, Dave Cowens, Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn.

Considering that Chris Childs kicked his ass, those guys would have destroyed him. lol

 

[Southpaw]

Considering that Chris Childs kicked his ass, those guys would have destroyed him. lol

That sounds hilarious. Gonna have to Google that one, unless you can fill me in.

 

[Southpaw]

Found it. That famous Kobe elbow, once again.

The fight began when Bryant came around a screen and appeared to clip Childs in the chin with an elbow. While play continued, the two exchanged words and bumped chests.

Childs threw two punches, appearing to hit Bryant in the neck and upper chest. Bryant missed with a punch. Neither player was hurt.

The game was delayed for nearly five minutes before the players left the court -- Bryant angrily, Childs more peacefully.

"He hit me in the elbow in the mouth, and I just reacted," Childs said after the game. "He does it a lot and never gets called for it. I just had to defend myself. I wish it hadn't happened, but there's nothing I can do about it now."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Huh? Take out the bias and emotion... He is repeating an act he committed two months ago... that act cost him one game. At the very least, a repeat of that act receives the same punishment. However, logic would tell you that the punishment would escalate due to 'second' offense, lack of time between repeated offense, etc.

DCR doesn't have bias or emotion in the Lakers/Kobe's favor...he's a Suns fan.

However, IIRC he didn't think the first one should have been a suspension, so it follows he doesn't think this one should either.

Thanks. I do not have a bias, and I am far from a Kobe apologist.

I just feel that the NBA and its referring has been so biased, and non consistent, that no suspension was necessary.

However, if this is the norm, and we do start suspending, then we need to start suspending for excessive flopping, and flailing. I'd expect Ginobili to be suspended by years end.

 

[D-Dogg]

Lost in the discussion was the Mike Miller incident last season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2275494

Actually, not lost in the discussion. I've used it several times as an example of an intentional, and rightfully suspendable act.

 

[Southpaw]

I hate flopping. That being said, I still can't equate flopping to busting a guy's face open. I have more than a few stitches in my head from guys who "didn't mean it", on the court. Every elbow, follow through, flail has intent at any level of play. I even had my forearm fractured by a guy who swore he got " all ball ". Got a torn retina from a guy who was defending me off the ball. If you play ball, intent is very easy to figure out. Kobe knows exactly what he is doing and doesn't give a rat's butt if anyone gets busted up.

 

[Covert Rain]

I hate flopping. That being said, I still can't equate flopping to busting a guy's face open.

 

[Southpaw]

Actually, not lost in the discussion. I've used it several times as an example of an intentional, and rightfully suspendable act.

Iread the first 5 pages and didn't see any reference. I gave up too quickly.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Thanks. I do not have a bias, and I am far from a Kobe apologist.

I just feel that the NBA and its referring has been so biased, and non consistent, that no suspension was necessary.

However, if this is the norm, and we do start suspending, then we need to start suspending for excessive flopping, and flailing. I'd expect Ginobili to be suspended by years end.

Dream and others.

I don't think you understand my point... Bias and Emotion of OUR OWN OPINIONS... lay those aside.

If a person is punished for an act - one would expect a more severe punishment for a repeated act, especially if that repeat was on the heels of the first accurance. WHO Cares who was involved! Based on that, I believe Kobe got off easy with this second offense.

 

[D-Dogg]

I hate flopping. That being said, I still can't equate flopping to busting a guy's face open. I have more than a few stitches in my head from guys who "didn't mean it", on the court. Every elbow, follow through, flail has intent at any level of play. I even had my forearm fractured by a guy who swore he got " all ball ". Got a torn retina from a guy who was defending me off the ball. If you play ball, intent is very easy to figure out. Kobe knows exactly what he is doing and doesn't give a rat's butt if anyone gets busted up.

I completely disagree. I've bloodied many a uni playing basketball from getting my nose in the way of an elbow....from friends and foes alike. Broken wrist from hard fouls throwing me to the ground.

Basketball is a contact sport, always has been and always will be. Thinking intent is easy to discern from playing tough or trying to wiggle your way into a call is a victim mentality. SOMETIMES intent is easy to discern, not all the time.

 

[D-Dogg]

Iread the first 5 pages and didn't see any reference. I gave up too quickly.

I first mentioned it in post 28.

Just curious, no smack intended, how many posts per page do you display? Everyone displays differently. I show 40 per page so I don't have to keep clicking next page all the time.

 

[D-Dogg]

If a person is punished for an act - one would expect a more severe punishment for a repeated act, especially if that repeat was on the heels of the first accurance. WHO Cares who was involved! Based on that, I believe Kobe got off easy with this second offense.

I agree with this.

However I also feel the act is being incorrectly judged.

From the standpoint of expected punishment, yes, he got off easy because usually I'd expect 2 or 3 here instead of one.

But that isn't the argument I think anyone is making who is saying this is a bad suspension. The issue is with whether it should be a suspendable action in the first place, not since they've done it once should it be more games.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Dream and others.

I don't think you understand my point... Bias and Emotion of OUR OWN OPINIONS... lay those aside.

If a person is punished for an act - one would expect a more severe punishment for a repeated act, especially if that repeat was on the heels of the first accurance. WHO Cares who was involved! Based on that, I believe Kobe got off easy with this second offense.

I understand your logic. However, If no suspension was given (as what I felt was the appropriate punishment), then logic would suggest the same punishment the second time.

 

[Southpaw]

I completely disagree. I've bloodied many a uni playing basketball from getting my nose in the way of an elbow....from friends and foes alike. Broken wrist from hard fouls throwing me to the ground.

Basketball is a contact sport, always has been and always will be. Thinking intent is easy to discern from playing tough or trying to wiggle your way into a call is a victim mentality. SOMETIMES intent is easy to discern, not all the time.

So we are both coming from the same experience. The difference I see, is if some guy throws an elbow at me, on the playground. I get to bust him in the mouth with my fist, on the playground, before I head to the emergency room. That will clean a game up in a hurry. The NBA doesn't allow that, so they suspend players, to avoid it.

I have even had a gun pulled out on me and was shot at. Now that is discernible intent and contact.

I agree it is a contact sport, but there are no instant repercussions for "games within the game" at the NCAA/NBA level. The intent of the rules is to prevent injury, not promote it. A guy like Mutumbo has played his whole career with his elbows,and gets away with it, because he is a nice guy. Nobody likes it but guys, even his own teamates get busted up. He plays with his elbows because that is all he has. Sure as Hell doesn't make it right.

 

[SO91]

I have even had a gun pulled out on me and was shot at. Now that is discernible intent and contact.

Who were you playing with, Stephen Jackson?

 

[D-Dogg]

So we are both coming from the same experience. The difference I see, is if some guy throws an elbow at me, on the playground. I get to bust him in the mouth with my fist, on the playground, before I head to the emergency room. That will clean a game up in a hurry. The NBA doesn't allow that, so they suspend players, to avoid it.

I have even had a gun pulled out on me and was shot at. Now that is discernible intent and contact.

I agree it is a contact sport, but there are no instant repercussions for "games within the game" at the NCAA/NBA level. The intent of the rules is to prevent injury, not promote it. A guy like Mutumbo has played his whole career with his elbows,and gets away with it, because he is a nice guy. Nobody likes it but guys, even his own teamates get busted up. He plays with his elbows because that is all he has. Sure as Hell doesn't make it right.

That bolded part above is just simply 100% a great line.

Most of those bloody noses and hard foul breaking my wrist were in-game sanctioned competition (school bball or summer tourneys we went to as "camp" for our team). Hell, our 8th grade basketball coach taught us to clear out with our elbows ("raise 'em high and to the right" on rebounds, he used to say). That early he was advocating what is "dirty play" (he also had us dramatize on charges and yell. And he was also a bit of an *****.)

BTW, I hear your points...I get it and agree. I don't like the flailing and flopping about, but I just don't see intent there from Kobe on the flails...he wants to shoot free throws not get an offensive foul. On the Mike Miller thing? He lost his damn mind and then tried to justify it. I see a big difference in his flopping and flailing than his use of elbows to clear space. I don't really agree with either, but I don't think they should be suspendable...and if they are, then the league better get busy suspending the hell out of some people.

 

[Southpaw]

That bolded part above is just simply 100% a great line.

Most of those bloody noses and hard foul breaking my wrist were in-game sanctioned competition (school bball or summer tourneys we went to as "camp" for our team). Hell, our 8th grade basketball coach taught us to clear out with our elbows ("raise 'em high and to the right" on rebounds, he used to say). That early he was advocating what is "dirty play" (he also had us dramatize on charges and yell. And he was also a bit of an *****.)

BTW, I hear your points...I get it and agree. I don't like the flailing and flopping about, but I just don't see intent there from Kobe on the flails...he wants to shoot free throws not get an offensive foul. On the Mike Miller thing? He lost his damn mind and then tried to justify it. I see a big difference in his flopping and flailing than his use of elbows to clear space. I don't really agree with either, but I don't think they should be suspendable...and if they are, then the league better get busy suspending the hell out of some people.

Coaches were pretty much the reason I quit playing organized ball. The higher the level the dirtier it got. I went back to AAU ball and League play after that. The age leagues are the worst. Guys who never played organized ball and just go out and hack away. I spent some time in Europe and hung out with a few Spanish and French league players , a lot less thuggery.

Sorry to get off topic.

 

[Southpaw]

Who were you playing with, Stephen Jackson?

Growing up in South Florida, there were very few caucasian players. I had to go to the hood to get any good games. The benefit was I never had to take my shirt off in a shirts/skins game. I was just the big white guy and easy to spot.


Didn't mean to get racial, but that is where it happened. Just one a hole and a bunch of good guys.

 

[D-Dogg]

The age leagues are the worst. Guys who never played organized ball and just go out and hack away.

This is part of the reason I don't play much ball anymore. People who foul the crap out of you, hang all over you then claim they "shut you down." Yeah, jackass, it's easy to break down my dribble and steal the ball from me when you are holding my dribbling arm and practically dryhumping me. You get on with yourself, Michael Jordan.

Plus, I'm lazy these days. Now, I just want to concentrate on teaching little kids fundamentals of basketball, until they are ruined later by some ***** coach.

I'll join you on this off-topic rant any day.

 

[Southpaw]

coach.

I'll join you on this off-topic rant any day.

 

[abomb]

This is part of the reason I don't play much ball anymore. People who foul the crap out of you, hang all over you then claim they "shut you down." Yeah, jackass, it's easy to break down my dribble and steal the ball from me when you are holding my dribbling arm and practically dryhumping me. You get on with yourself, Michael Jordan.

You said that was just part of my tenacity!

 

[boisesuns]

You said that was just part of my tenacity!

 

[MigratingOsprey]

i always played a physical brand of ball - i was a shooter who couldn't create, so I worked off screen constantly - I knew how to throw a pass and in a normal passing motion "incidently" catch a guy in the chest and give him a bruise that would be triangular based on my elbow bones

I knew how to jab people in the heels with my toes, put a knee in a thigh, secure a rebound high and come down with my elbows at a point (not throwing them mind you)

all this was considered "basketball" contact - i had no problem doing it and no problem with people doing it to me

if i was going up for a shot and got drilled it was all good as long as they made an effort at the ball

two things I wouldn't tolerate (or even consider doing) is getting my legs cut under any circumstance or taking a blatant shot that was outside of a basketball motion

as a shooter I would run hard off screens, use an elbow on a spin move to pin a defender (see gary payton) or use an elbow to nick a guy closing out when I passed it back to the post - all were used for the same reason, soften the defense and allow me to actually do what I could do - shoot

all players do this to a degree - it's tought at a young age and accepted

the line is when you start getting reckless or outside of a motion - kobe doesn't shoot jumper like that - if he is open he doesn't do it - he doesnt' do it against tough defenders either - he takes shots at lesser guys who aren't strong defenders to get in their heads and back them up

and since phil jackson is somehow a reliable source on this............. even he stated it was a clear out move

 

[mribnik]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but to all the Lakers fans citing statements made by Manu and Jaric, I'll give you this...

Last year after Raja Bell threw Kobe to the ground, Phil Jackson was asked if Raja should be suspended for it. After he was asked the question, Phil Jackson said, "Why?"

Since Phil Jackson has been in the league forever, he clearly knows that what Raja did wasn't intentional and that he didn't deserve a suspension.


There is clearly a "code" and the statements made by Manu and Jaric are irrelevant.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Also, can we please stop this Kobe doesn't get the calls he should BS

As of today he's 2nd in the league in FT attempts (548), last year he was 2nd in the league in attempts (819), two years ago he was 7th (664) but since he didn't play a full season still averaged 10 attempts per game

Michael Jordan (king of the superstar call) - only broke 800 attempts twice (972 & 860) and that was in his 3rd & 4th season before he was the greatest thing ever - for his six championship seasons he averaged 631 attempts a year