Kolb/Skelton splitting snaps

[Cheesebeef]

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

 

[52brandon]

A non-pay site? Not off the top of my head. You might be able to dig around on NFL.com they actually have some pretty detailed splits. If you just want to add up their total passing plays obviously you can go with PA+sacks+carries and get it within a few plays.

I dont think much separates Skelton and Kolb. But because of his lack of success, injury history and looming cap figure it is extremely unlikely that Kolb will be a Cardinal in 2013. I'd rather get a better grasp on what Skelton can do now, than go through this entire debate with Skelton and (QB?) again next season.

We'll see I guess. I agree and am very concerned about his durability. Hopefully his new helmet helps with that. Hopefully an improved O-line and WR corps gets him blitzed/hit less too...

too optimistic? lol

Week 1: An 89 yard PP punt return won that game. Defense looked crappy. Kolb looked just OK but not bad considering the shortened offseason.

"just OK"? A 130 passer rating is the best we've seen in years

 

[52brandon]

You still don't get the point.

Offense: 84 yard TD drive to tie
Defense: Stop Jackson cold and force a punt
Special Teams: Blocked FG and 99 yard punt return

An outstanding performance by the TEAM! But it appears you refuse to acknowledge the Offense's contribution simply because Skelton was the QB.

Of course if we wanted to be negative we could look at it this way:

Offense: failed to run out the clock after getting the ball with 1:41 to play.
Special Teams: allowed a 19 yard punt return instead of pinning the Rams at their 15 they get the ball on their 36.
Defense: Rams get the ball on their 36 with 51 seconds left: give up a 23 yard pass on first down and get a Pass Interference Penalty carrying an automatic first down on 3rd and 6 and let Jackson run for 8 yards with 12 seconds left to move the Rams to the Cards 24 to get in FG range.

our D gave up 383 yards
our O gave up 2 safeties

but the team stuck it out, busted their ass until the end, and came away with a win. There was cause for concern and for hope in that game

 

[Duckjake]

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

Waste of time? This is almost as much fun as messing with 40year in the Dansby thread.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Waste of time? This is almost as much fun as messing with 40year in the Dansby thread.

well... that's always fun!

 

[kerouac9]

That game and the Seattle game are among Fitz's finest moments as a Card. Againsth Niners, he was directly responsible for all 3 TDs. Of course, his amazing, twisting leap of catch where he somehow kept his balance and ran it in. On Doucets TD, he unleashed a brutal block on Golden that allowed him to run it in. On Roberts TD, he set up it with a 53 yard gain and then the guy on Roberts cheated back figuring a lob to Fitz was coming which allowed Roberts to catch it on the two yard line and easily score.


Yes, Skelton made the throws, but I don't like one of the epic performances of our greatest player not even getting mentioned for that W. Needless to say, no Fitz, we get hammered that day IMO.

Another amazing thing about that game was we had 3 turnovers, and SF none, yet we still won. That just doesn't happen to the Cardinals.


You might guess I loved that game. My favorite of 2011 although the Seattle and Dallas games were also terrific.

I believe that Kevin Kolb had a healthy Fitz for all of his starts, too. What's the difference? Fitz is an amazing weapon and a great security blanket. It's just the Skelton found a way to get Ws with Fitz and Kolb kept finding ways to lose.

Week 1: An 89 yard PP punt return won that game. Defense looked crappy. Kolb looked just OK but not bad considering the shortened offseason.

Week 9: Campbell Blocks a Field Goal to Force OT. A 99 yard PP punt return in OT won that game. Defense finally started to look like they belonged on the field. Skelton had one decent drive late in the game to tie things up against the hapless Rams.

Week 10: Two early interceptions spotted the eagles an 7 point half time lead. However Skelton was able to shake off those early INTs and rally the team for a win. Impressive win for Skelton on the road considering the bad start.

Week 12: Beanie Wells owns the Rams. Cards D dominates. PP has another punt return for TD.

Week 13: Kolb returns and has a OK game, nothing special. LSH catches a 5 yard pass and turns it into an amazing 45 yard run in OT to win the game. Defense looked great.

Week 14: Cards Defense put in a bad position by Offense but hold Niners to 4 FGs in the first half (plus another missed FG). Skelton is able to rally the Cardinals late in the game.

Week 15: Cards Offense struggles against the Hapless Browns. Defense forces a fumble and gets ball on Browns 5 yard line late in the 4th. Offense loses 6 yards and Feely kicks a field goal to tie the game. PP has a huge punt return in OT and Skelton manages to do enough to get Cards within Field Goal range for a game winner by Feely.

Week 17: Another Blocked field goal by PP. Plus a big PP return to set up a field goal. Fitzgerald making one of the most incredable catches I have ever seen to set up a TD. Cards let the Hawks come back but somehow do it again in OT.


Wow. 4 OT wins. No wonder why my hair is turning gray so fast.

The Browns D was very good last year. Don't let their craptacular offense fool you.

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

lol... it's not like I wasn't one of the biggest offenders of doing the same thing over and over again back in the day (and still am from time to time). I just don't have the energy i guess for these never-ending off-season debates where everyone literally just says the same thing over and over again.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

is there any more waste of time on this site than this topic? the proof will be in the pudding in a matter of months.

reminds me of all the jake the fake threads. How much bandwidth was wasted on that subject?

Duck and Stout:

you guys are really digging in on the side of Skelton (articulately, I'll add).

We're pulling for the team here, right?

I think Kolb is the better long-term answer, but if skelton beats him out, I'll happily toe the line, and pull for John to get us another banner.

Will you at least concede that it's possible Kolb is (will be) the better QB? That the issue has yet to be decided for certain?

Nobody denies Skelton is the underdog, maybe even undeservedly so. And, on this board, he might not be getting the credit he deserves. But based on everything that we've seen from both QBs, is it fair to say that Skelton is the no-brainer choice?

I for one would like to see a few preseason games before I really crank up the Kolb hype machine.

Sound good?

 

[Stout]

This quote from Whisenhunt pretty much tells me that Skelton is not going to have to beat out Kolb by a little but by a huge margin to be the starting QB...



http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/163392

It's a competition but I don't know how fair it will be. Kolb will get a longer leash IMO.

Frankly I just want the best guy to win but it is really hard not to like John Skelton the person and wish him well, he just comes across as a class guy in interviews.

Wow, that's a pretty lousy quote from KW. Hopefully it was taken out of context, or else say goodbye to any thought of a 'fair' competition.

reminds me of all the jake the fake threads. How much bandwidth was wasted on that subject?

Duck and Stout:

you guys are really digging in on the side of Skelton (articulately, I'll add).

We're pulling for the team here, right?

I think Kolb is the better long-term answer, but if skelton beats him out, I'll happily toe the line, and pull for John to get us another banner.

Will you at least concede that it's possible Kolb is (will be) the better QB? That the issue has yet to be decided for certain?

Nobody denies Skelton is the underdog, maybe even undeservedly so. And, on this board, he might not be getting the credit he deserves. But based on everything that we've seen from both QBs, is it fair to say that Skelton is the no-brainer choice?

I for one would like to see a few preseason games before I really crank up the Kolb hype machine.

Sound good?

Haha, the good old days. I remember when we were like 4-2, and I kept upsetting Tango for saying it was all a sham--we were crap and lucked into some wins. Sadly, I was right

See, the reason I get behind Skelton is that I don't see much of an upside with Kolb. When rookies can step in and light it up, and he's supposed to be the finished product, and he can't make plays that a high schooler can make...it worries me. His lack of pocket awareness specifically. I realize that there wasn't much of an offseason, but still--others thrived and he fell utterly flat. Plus he has injury problems to boot.

With Skelton, I see an incomplete and utterly raw QB. He's probably not ready to QB this team to the playoffs this season, but with the coaching and development he'll get, I think he's the best we have. I don't see the upside with Kolb, and I see a ton of possible upside with Skelton, who has had zero developmental time thus far.

 

[Phrazbit]

This quote from Whisenhunt pretty much tells me that Skelton is not going to have to beat out Kolb by a little but by a huge margin to be the starting QB...



http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/163392

It's a competition but I don't know how fair it will be. Kolb will get a longer leash IMO.

Frankly I just want the best guy to win but it is really hard not to like John Skelton the person and wish him well, he just comes across as a class guy in interviews.

Yeah, I dont really think this is going to be a competition. Kolb would have to be a complete disaster to not "win" the job, and the way the preseason is setup you dont even take enough snaps to definitively look good or terrible.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow, that's a pretty lousy quote from KW. Hopefully it was taken out of context, or else say goodbye to any thought of a 'fair' competition.



Haha, the good old days. I remember when we were like 4-2, and I kept upsetting Tango for saying it was all a sham--we were crap and lucked into some wins. Sadly, I was right

See, the reason I get behind Skelton is that I don't see much of an upside with Kolb. When rookies can step in and light it up, and he's supposed to be the finished product, and he can't make plays that a high schooler can make...it worries me. His lack of pocket awareness specifically. I realize that there wasn't much of an offseason, but still--others thrived and he fell utterly flat. Plus he has injury problems to boot.

With Skelton, I see an incomplete and utterly raw QB. He's probably not ready to QB this team to the playoffs this season, but with the coaching and development he'll get, I think he's the best we have. I don't see the upside with Kolb, and I see a ton of possible upside with Skelton, who has had zero developmental time thus far.

yeah... gotta admit this is why I lean a little more toward Skelton as well. I still have some hope for Kolb but between his incredble skittishness and failure to show any real defining trait, I just don't believe his ceiling is all that high.

 

[jw7]

Seriously, how many of you would not trade Kolb for a 2nd rounder and DRC and free up 7 figures of cap space given Skelton?

I'd do that in a second.

The Eagles took the Cards to the woodshed and gave 'em a whuppin'.

I'll give him one more season with a training camp, but for whatever reason I just like Skelton better.

 

[52brandon]

Seriously, how many of you would not trade Kolb for a 2nd rounder and DRC and free up 7 figures of cap space given Skelton?

I'd do that in a second.

The Eagles took the Cards to the woodshed and gave 'em a whuppin'.

I'll give him one more season with a training camp, but for whatever reason I just like Skelton better.

As of today I'd trade any of our QBs for just the 2nd round pick

 

[az1965]

Just out of curiosity, how much significance do you put in the fact that Kolb was a Cardinal for four weeks prior to playing in his first game in the regular season?

Obviously it had an impact on the entire team and more so on new comers. However, some of the mistakes Kolb was making were QB fundamentals.

 

[Stout]

Obviously it had an impact on the entire team and more so on new comers. However, some of the mistakes Kolb was making were QB fundamentals.

Bingo. Also, how was Andy Dalton? Cam Newton?

 

[40yearfan]

Waste of time? This is almost as much fun as messing with 40year in the Dansby thread.

well... that's always fun!

You dirty rats!!!:rapidfirefromtommygun:

 

[40yearfan]

When Whiz said there was going to be a competition between Warner and Leinart, everyone thought Leinart had the edge. Whiz has proven he isn't afraid to pull the trigger and go with whom he thinks can win immediately. I don't believe Kolb has any more of an edge than Skelton does and I don't think Kolb's salary will make a difference to Whiz. If he feels Skelton is better, Skelton will be playing.

I personally think Skelton has more upside, but that doesn't mean I won't be rooting for Kolb. Hopefully both will be playing so well, it won't make any difference who is starting.

 

[Phrazbit]

When Whiz said there was going to be a competition between Warner and Leinart, everyone thought Leinart had the edge. Whiz has proven he isn't afraid to pull the trigger and go with whom he thinks can win immediately. I don't believe Kolb has any more of an edge than Skelton does and I don't think Kolb's salary will make a difference to Whiz. If he feels Skelton is better, Skelton will be playing.

I personally think Skelton has more upside, but that doesn't mean I won't be rooting for Kolb. Hopefully both will be playing so well, it won't make any difference who is starting.

May have already been discussed in this thread, but I think those are different situations. Whiz inherited Leinart, he can dump and dog Leinart and it does not reflect on Whiz's decision making. While Kolb was Whiz's investment. And Leinart was on his rookie deal, Whiz could, in theory, sit him behind Kurt and still potentially start him down the road, while this is clearly a make or break season for Kolb. For those reasons and that I think Whiz would prefer to see an investment he made return dividends, Kolb would have to look extraordinarily bad during preseason in order to lose the job.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I just hope for improvement from both parties. I went to the Pittsburgh game last year and Kolb was as bad as any QB I had ever seen play. That's until I went to the Cincy game and saw the first half Skelton threw out there. Skelton rebounded nicley though. Skelton was also frighfully bad in the 1st half of the St.Louis game I attended also.

 

[Duckjake]

When Whiz said there was going to be a competition between Warner and Leinart, everyone thought Leinart had the edge. Whiz has proven he isn't afraid to pull the trigger and go with whom he thinks can win immediately. I don't believe Kolb has any more of an edge than Skelton does and I don't think Kolb's salary will make a difference to Whiz. If he feels Skelton is better, Skelton will be playing.

I personally think Skelton has more upside, but that doesn't mean I won't be rooting for Kolb. Hopefully both will be playing so well, it won't make any difference who is starting.

True. We just weren't paying close enough attention after the 2007 season Warner had. If we'd taken that performance and read between the lines of some of the things CKW was saying we'd have know it was Warner who had the edge not Leinart going into the 2008 season.

 

[kerouac9]

When Whiz said there was going to be a competition between Warner and Leinart, everyone thought Leinart had the edge. Whiz has proven he isn't afraid to pull the trigger and go with whom he thinks can win immediately. I don't believe Kolb has any more of an edge than Skelton does and I don't think Kolb's salary will make a difference to Whiz. If he feels Skelton is better, Skelton will be playing.

I personally think Skelton has more upside, but that doesn't mean I won't be rooting for Kolb. Hopefully both will be playing so well, it won't make any difference who is starting.

Poppycock. Does anyone here really think that Leinart was the superior quarterback in Whis's first training camp? That he was the QB who was more prepared to lead the Arizona Cardinals to wins? That it wasn't until mid-season in 2007 that Warner vaulted over Leinart to become the superior quarterback?

Of course not. Whis went with Leinart because Leinart was viewed as the future of the franchise and was a bonus baby 1st round pick. So, we know that Whis is capable of bending to outside factors when deciding whom to start.

Also, no one is ever going to convince me that The Hulking Reanimated Corpse of Joey Porter was better than any other player the Cards had on the roster at that position. He was total garbage and would've likely continued to start ahead of Acho unless he'd been injured.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Poppycock. Does anyone here really think that Leinart was the superior quarterback in Whis's first training camp? That he was the QB who was more prepared to lead the Arizona Cardinals to wins? That it wasn't until mid-season in 2007 that Warner vaulted over Leinart to become the superior quarterback?

Of course not. Whis went with Leinart because Leinart was viewed as the future of the franchise and was a bonus baby 1st round pick. So, we know that Whis is capable of bending to outside factors when deciding whom to start.

this is complete revisionist history. BS. Warner was a horror show in 2006 and EVERYONE thought he was washed up. Matt came in and played well as a rookie, had his ups and down, but definitely had some major ups. No one thought Warner had anything left going into the 2007 season. it wasn't until we started running the spread with Warner coming in as the relief QB did anyone start believing that he had something left in the tank.

it was the next training camp that a lot of people thought Warner should have been the starter after Matt struggled in his first year with Wiz and then looked really bad in that Oakland pre-season game.

 

[Duckjake]

this is complete revisionist history. BS. Warner was a horror show in 2006 and EVERYONE thought he was washed up. Matt came in and played well as a rookie, had his ups and down, but definitely had some major ups. No one thought Warner had anything left going into the 2007 season. it wasn't until we started running the spread with Warner coming in as the relief QB did anyone start believing that he had something left in the tank.

it was the next training camp (2008dj) that a lot of people thought Warner should have been the starter after Matt struggled in his first year with Wiz and then looked really bad in that Oakland pre-season game.

I agree. Warner was terrible to start 2006 and no one thought he had anything left at 36 years old going into 2007.

We all were fooled. That Oakland game was nothing but the excuse CKW needed to continue with Warner as the starter. I know I missed the signs after the 2007 season. But using my 20/40 hindsight I can look back and see that Warner was the starter all the way going into 2008. His second half performance was just too strong. 2,362 yards and 21 TDs. No way Whisenhunt wasn't going to start him in '08.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree. Warner was terrible to start 2006 and no one thought he had anything left at 36 years old going into 2007.

We all were fooled. That Oakland game was nothing but the excuse CKW needed to continue with Warner as the starter. I know I missed the signs after the 2007 season. But using my 20/40 hindsight I can look back and see that Warner was the starter all the way going into 2008. His second half performance was just too strong. 2,362 yards and 21 TDs. No way Whisenhunt wasn't going to start him in '08.

that I can buy. i was wrong about Warner too. i thought it was Matt's job to lose all the way until that Oakland game. that was a complete head-turner for me. that was as epic a disaster as there possibly could be in the pre-season.

 

[kerouac9]

this is complete revisionist history. BS. Warner was a horror show in 2006 and EVERYONE thought he was washed up. Matt came in and played well as a rookie, had his ups and down, but definitely had some major ups. No one thought Warner had anything left going into the 2007 season. it wasn't until we started running the spread with Warner coming in as the relief QB did anyone start believing that he had something left in the tank.

it was the next training camp that a lot of people thought Warner should have been the starter after Matt struggled in his first year with Wiz and then looked really bad in that Oakland pre-season game.

Sometimes revisionist history is more informative than the first draft. Do you think that Whis inserted Warner in the Baltimore game not knowing how he was going to perform? It was Week 3 of the regular season. Warner had at least 20 attempts in each game before Leinart suffered his second broken collarbone.

I agree that the fan reaction was that Warner was finished and the Leinart was the future. My question is whether Whisenhunt really believed that. There were loud rumors about early friction between Whis and Leinart (who openly endorsed both Norm Chow and Pete Carroll for the job), beginning with Super Bowl week in Miami when Leinart pulled over his limo when he saw Whis walking down the strip.

Whisenhunt had an entire offseason with Warner and then all of training camp. All of the fans' eyes were on the presumed young stud. But do you really think that Whis put Warner into the lineup against Baltimore thinking that he was finished but we might as well roll the dice?

Really?

We were running the spread before the Baltimore game. The Cards attempted 66 passes over the first two games of the 2007 season, both games decided by 3 points.