KT Gone to Seattle

[az1965]

Out of curiosity, does anyone remember a team THIS close to a championship making a trade that had the dual effect of hurting its chances for a championship NOW, while at the same time mortgaging part of its future? This is a first for me.

I've seen teams that were close to a championship give away an important veteran in exchange for youth or future picks (Mostly when they've thrown in the towel). I've also seen teams this close give away part of their future to get that missing veteran. But I've never seen a team accomplish the double negative.

Ah, but you are missing the point... we are getting a lot of $$$!!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pfft. I will be in denial if we don't win.

lol.

 

[Yuma]

We can't. We are over the luxury tax, and that is why we needed to trade KT. Once we aquire anyone else, trade exception or not, we add new salary, thus new luxury tax.

So basically the ONLY move we have left, without incurring the luxury tax, is some kind of trade in order to get another big. That signals to me, more Marion rumors, or some disappointing trade of our lesser guys for some guy we aren't going to be really excited about. Bottom line, I can't see us going into next year's playoffs with only Amare as our true big that will see action. If that happens, he will be so tired from forty minutes a night over 82 games, that he'll be on fumes come playoff time.

 

[Joe Mama]

But Joe, to be fair, as many people here have said time and time again,

The regular season doesn't matter.

You can't have it both ways now.

I can't tell you how much I hate this emoticon ...

People that say, "the regular season doesn't matter", mean it doesn't matter if you have a regular-season success if you continually get beaten in the playoffs. However you always want to be as successful as possible in the regular season in order to set yourself up for the playoffs.

Besides, what does that have to do with anything I said anyhow? I merely refuted the idea that Kurt Thomas doesn't really help in the regular season. I think he does.

Besides, what the Suns should have done this season was play Thomas more the whole way, so that something approaching playoff style would be more familiar when needed.

Hoping that someone else will take out the Spurs is a loser's gamble. Real champions are prepared to beat everyone.

I don't think they needed to play him more during the regular season at all. In fact I'm glad they didn't play him more. He played plenty during the regular season. It might have been nice to see him a little more against San Antonio, but that's about it. Besides, that would have just given Gregg Popovich a better opportunity to prepare for it

I like the idea of keeping the old man's minutes down some during the regular season. The big mistake was not playing him more in game one against San Antonio. Otherwise I think Kurt Thomas was managed just fine.

here's my question to everyone. A team with very poor big man depth just traded a big man, who we know can play valuable minutes on this team so we can hopefully sign another big man for less money, who we don't know if they'll mesh with the system/team as well. How is that not cheap, especially in the face of winning a title where you'd think you'd stretch that extra mile to try and get there?

Let's say the Phoenix Suns signed another big man for $3 million this season. That means they just saved $10 million. Again, if they get PJ Brown I think it is very safe to assume that he will slide right into Kurt Thomas's role without much of a hitch. If they are counting on someone else to take that role I agree it was cheap.

I guess the thing that really bothers me right now is that 2010 draft pick with no protection. It's really not out of the realm of possibilities that that's a pretty good draft pick given health issues and age of this team. That said, I think it's a bit ridiculous to say "best case we have a broken down Steve Nash" like someone did on one of these posts. I guess I'm the only one who isn't really concerned with Steve Nash's age.

Sounds like you'd better start caring. There ain't gonna be no championship.

If you mean the Phoenix Suns won't win a championship with their current roster might be inclined to agree. I'm not sure why you are so certain that this is the team they'll go into the playoffs with the next spring.

Joe

 

[Yuma]

One thing that Steve Kerr said always gets under my skin. It's this idea that the Phoenix Suns cannot play fast with Kurt Thomas in the lineup. I think that's total BS, and I'm really tired of hearing it.

If anything, Kurt Thomas allows the team to play faster. It's a hell of a lot easier to run the ball when your team is actually getting stops in securing the defensive boards. That's what Kurt Thomas does. That's what Amare Stoudemire and the rest of the frontcourt minus Thomas struggled to do. Besides, I think the Suns are at their best when Amare and Shawn Marion can run.

You don't need five people running full bore up and down the court to be a great running team. You do need to be able to get some stops and secure the rebounds.

Joe

Agreed. See Showtime era Lakers with Kareem as exhibit A.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I can't tell you how much I hate this emoticon ...

People that say, "the regular season doesn't matter", mean it doesn't matter if you have a regular-season success if you continually get beaten in the playoffs. However you always want to be as successful as possible in the regular season in order to set yourself up for the playoffs.

Besides, what does that have to do with anything I said anyhow? I merely refuted the idea that Kurt Thomas doesn't really help in the regular season. I think he does.



I don't think they needed to play him more during the regular season at all. In fact I'm glad they didn't play him more. He played plenty during the regular season. It might have been nice to see him a little more against San Antonio, but that's about it. Besides, that would have just given Gregg Popovich a better opportunity to prepare for it

I like the idea of keeping the old man's minutes down some during the regular season. The big mistake was not playing him more in game one against San Antonio. Otherwise I think Kurt Thomas was managed just fine.



Let's say the Phoenix Suns signed another big man for $3 million this season. That means they just saved $10 million. Again, if they get PJ Brown I think it is very safe to assume that he will slide right into Kurt Thomas's role without much of a hitch. If they are counting on someone else to take that role I agree it was cheap.

I can agree with that, but what do they say about a bird in hand? And even if they get PJ it's a bit of a downgrade from KT AND we're giving up significant assets of our future to do it. But, either way, it probably won't matter anyway as DA is loathe to actually adjust his schemes and play a big man anyway.

 

[SASpursfan]

So basically the ONLY move we have left, without incurring the luxury tax, is some kind of trade in order to get another big. That signals to me, more Marion rumors, or some disappointing trade of our lesser guys for some guy we aren't going to be really excited about. Bottom line, I can't see us going into next year's playoffs with only Amare as our true big that will see action. If that happens, he will be so tired from forty minutes a night over 82 games, that he'll be on fumes come playoff time.[/quote]

Dont forget you guys still have Diaw and Sean Marks. Inside word is that these guys are extremely physical inside players.

 

[elindholm]

If you mean the Phoenix Suns won't win a championship with their current roster might be inclined to agree. I'm not sure why you are so certain that this is the team they'll go into the playoffs with the next spring.

Well, let's see:

1. They have no trade assets left, except for the Atlanta '08 pick.

2. No one is going to give them a useful player for the trade exception unless that player has a long-term contract (e.g. Etan Thomas), which the Suns won't take on.

3. It's not clear whether Sarver's cost-consciousness or D'Antoni's small-ball stubbornness is the driving force behind these moves, but they are both very much in play.

4. If the Suns were serious about fleshing out the roster with role players in Thomas's absence, they would have kept both of this year's picks.

5. The Suns have gotten completely reamed in every trade they've made the last few years, with the possible exception of the Richardson/Thomas trade, so they are entitled to no confidence that they are capable of using trades to make the team better.

 

[fordronken]

5. The Suns have gotten completely reamed in every trade they've made the last few years, with the possible exception of the Richardson/Thomas trade, so they are entitled to no confidence that they are capable of using trades to make the team better.

Don't forget the Barbosa trade, the first James Jones trade and the Jim Jackson trade. Those were all pretty good. But I agree, they've made terrible trades beyond that. The problem is that, with the exception of a few of them, it wasn't a matter of a trade that ended up being a bad idea. They were trades they decided on while having all the necessary information. They were just cost cuts, for the most part. The obvious mistake in the bunch was the trade that sent the Deng pick to Chicago.

 

[SunsTzu]

Well, let's see:

1. They have no trade assets left, except for the Atlanta '08 pick.

At this point I think Barbosa would be viewed as a trade asset. It would certainly hurt losing him but at this point they have 3 other back up combo guards in Tucker, Banks and Strawberry(of course this assumes they sign DJ) 4 if you count Pike. It may not be pretty but it's better than what is shaping up for the front court.

Personally I'm more in favor than ever to trade Marion for any pieces that'd fit but judging by Kerr's comments it doesn't look like that is in the cards.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Don't forget the Barbosa trade, the first James Jones trade and the Jim Jackson trade. Those were all pretty good. But I agree, they've made terrible trades beyond that.

the guy who made all those trades is in Toronto right now, probably polishing both of his Executive of the Year Awards he won two of the last three years.

 

[Bufalay]

the guy who made all those trades is in Toronto right now, probably polishing both of his Executive of the Year Awards he won two of the last three years.

hahaha you think thats what he does in during his spare time?

 

[Bufalay]

So basically the ONLY move we have left, without incurring the luxury tax, is some kind of trade in order to get another big. That signals to me, more Marion rumors, or some disappointing trade of our lesser guys for some guy we aren't going to be really excited about. Bottom line, I can't see us going into next year's playoffs with only Amare as our true big that will see action. If that happens, he will be so tired from forty minutes a night over 82 games, that he'll be on fumes come playoff time.[/quote]

Dont forget you guys still have Diaw and Sean Marks. Inside word is that these guys are extremely physical inside players.

inside word is that the spurs probably didn't deserve that championship that they won this year.

 

[dodie53]

take care KT..

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Out of curiosity, does anyone remember a team THIS close to a championship making a trade that had the dual effect of hurting its chances for a championship NOW, while at the same time mortgaging part of its future? This is a first for me.

I've seen teams that were close to a championship give away an important veteran in exchange for youth or future picks (Mostly when they've thrown in the towel). I've also seen teams this close give away part of their future to get that missing veteran. But I've never seen a team accomplish the double negative.

and this is the crux of my frustration. we've now given away, what, 6 of 9 first round picks through 2010? a lot of those are late picks, yes, but a lot of teams, at least the GOOD teams, hit on one or two of those late picks. it's what keeps them a good team over time (see parker, see ginobili, see finley, see ceballos, etc.) and now we don't spin that wheel SIX times??? wow.

and this is not addition by subtraction . . . this is just subtraction in our goal this year.

VIVA LA FLEXIBILITY!

 

[Bufalay]

One thing that Steve Kerr said always gets under my skin. It's this idea that the Phoenix Suns cannot play fast with Kurt Thomas in the lineup. I think that's total BS, and I'm really tired of hearing it.

If anything, Kurt Thomas allows the team to play faster. It's a hell of a lot easier to run the ball when your team is actually getting stops in securing the defensive boards. That's what Kurt Thomas does. That's what Amare Stoudemire and the rest of the frontcourt minus Thomas struggled to do. Besides, I think the Suns are at their best when Amare and Shawn Marion can run.

You don't need five people running full bore up and down the court to be a great running team. You do need to be able to get some stops and secure the rebounds.

Joe

unlike kerr and some of the others on this board it sounds like you actually watch suns games.

 

[fordronken]

I think people are forgetting how much money 16 million dollars is. Compared to the rest of their payroll, it's not a lot. But think about this. Last season, the Suns sold out every game and made it to the second round of the playoffs. However, their profit for all of last season was 14 million dollars. That means that with one move, the Suns have saved more money than they made TOTAL last year. Make no mistake, 16 million dollars is a lot of money.

 

[newfan101]

I think people are forgetting how much money 16 million dollars is.

I think people who point out how much money 16 million is forget how long some of us have waited for a championship.

 

[SunsTzu]

I think people are forgetting how much money 16 million dollars is. Compared to the rest of their payroll, it's not a lot. But think about this. Last season, the Suns sold out every game and made it to the second round of the playoffs. However, their profit for all of last season was 14 million dollars. That means that with one move, the Suns have saved more money than they made TOTAL last year. Make no mistake, 16 million dollars is a lot of money.

No one is disputing 16million is a lot of money. It's hard to be supportive of a move the weakens a team on the verge of winning a title when the fans have been waiting 4 decades.

Plus it is pretty insulting listening to the team spin this.

 

[fordronken]

No one is disputing 16million is a lot of money. It's hard to be supportive of a move the weakens a team on the verge of winning a title when the fans have been waiting 4 decades.

Plus it is pretty insulting listening to the team spin this.

It's obviously a bad basketball move. What I'm trying to say is that 16 million dollars is the difference between personally losing millions of dollars and personally gaining them. It's not a difference of "hmm, I could make 40 million dollars this years or 56 million...well, screw the team."

There are a lot of problems with this trade, but people are overreacting to this on a massive scale. The biggest problem with this trade is that the 2010 pick is unprotected.

Kurt Thomas would have played 15 minutes a game against Duncan in the playoffs next year. If any of you would chose to lose a few million rather than make it over that, then congratulations. But guess what? People who would do that tend not to be in a position to buy an NBA franchise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

.

Plus it is pretty insulting listening to the team spin this.

for me that's the tough part. it's having your intelligence insulted the by the team's front office. the thread that lists kerr's comments makes me want to calmly sit down across a table from steve kerr, then JUMP UP, FLIP THE TABLE OUTTA THE WAY AND THEN VIOLENTLY BLUDGEON HIM all the while screaming "are you freaking kidding me with that @$%?"

 

[Cheesebeef]

No one is disputing 16million is a lot of money. It's hard to be supportive of a move the weakens a team on the verge of winning a title when the fans have been waiting 4 decades.

Plus it is pretty insulting listening to the team spin this.

not to mention that it's reported that we made a profit of 14 million dollars this year, with a truncated playoff run. I would assume a similar season next season would produce similar profit margins, so if we were to pay 16 million in luxury taxes, while giving us the best possible shot to win a title and come out with ONLY a 12 million dollar profit over the last two years, at least you're servicing both the goals of making a profit AND doing everything you can to win the title. This is basically our shot at trying to win the title at a discount, even though we haven't shown the ability to win it with even more personel.

(that post probably didn't read to well, but most of you will probably get my point).

 

[Phxchris1989]

wow 2 first round picks and kurt thomas? WTF!!!!!!

Agreed

 

[cly2tw]

I don't mind this trade. I'd guess Sonics were to release Kurt by trading deadline so that if KT still wanted he could rejoin us for the playoffs round.

Meanwhile, we could embrace the desired Marion trade, either for Yi/Simmons or for Miller/Swift. Plus PJBrown, we'd be particularly much better suited for playoffs with the lineup:

Amare/Diaw/Miller/Bell/Nash backed up by PJ/Swift/Hill/LB plus Banks/Tucker/Strawberry.

Not bad at all.

 

[SirStefan32]

I can't believe this. Why not just kick us all in the balls?