ktar620

[elindholm]

The Nash and Okur comment is in reference to basically every free agent report about both players linking them to the Suns

Sure. One person says it, and then everyone else says it, because they don't really know what to say but they feel like they have to say something.

AZcentral including this on a consistent basis as well.

Isn't that just another fan site?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

AZcentral is the Arizona Republic's web site.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I dont see why people are still talking about Amare + Tracy + scrubs.

We will keep almost all of our cap space in the McGrady trade. We could add very good players if we dont trade fo rhim. Either way, we wont be surrounding either option with "scrubs".

However, if the suns DO land McGrady, it will obviously change their FA plans. They would look more towards signing 2 or 3 players to mid level contracts I would think. If we dont, we will go for high dollar FAs.

Outside of Bryant, I don't want the suns to commit big big money to anyone. Including Steve Nash. So I guess that is another reason why I advocate the TMac trade. I think the Suns would build a very nice supporting cast around TMAC/Amare, where if we dont make the trade, they will overspend on players that will underachieve.


My still option is of course Bryant

Agree completely. If Bryant isn't a viable option, then I want McGrady.

 

[slinslin]

So then the Suns would become just another bad team that happens to have a superstar on it.

Two superstars.

How many bad teams have two superstars? I can only think of Bryant and Shaq and they were surrounded by scrubs in all of their championship years.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

sounds to me like bc is preparing everyone for a whole lot of nothing. we're screwed. cap room to facilitate trades? wtf? no one else in the nba is gonna measure up to kobe or tmac. duncan, yao, lebron or kg won't become available. and there is no indication that anyone else is on the block. so the suns are just hoping an opportunity ends up presenting itself eventually? THAT was the plan? to be able to do something if the opportunity arose? that's no friggin' plan at all! if that's the case then we DID just trade marbury for lampe and nothing. THAT will piss me off to no end. that may just be the beginning of my spiral downward outta love w/ the suns organization.

thank god cards training camp is just around 2 months away . . . sheesh.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The Nash and Okur comment is in reference to basically every free agent report about both players linking them to the Suns

Sure. One person says it, and then everyone else says it, because they don't really know what to say but they feel like they have to say something.

That is a rather jaded perspective. There are plenty of reasons why people believe that Nash and Okur are attractive in the Suns eyes, whether you believe in these reasons or not would be your choice.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

that may just be the beginning of my spiral downward outta love w/ the suns organization.

thank god cards training camp is just around 2 months away . . . sheesh.

Agreed. I never thought that I would be more positive about the Cardinals organization than any Jerry Colangelo owned/managed/involved team. What the hell is this world coming to?

 

[slinslin]

I can't see how the Suns could possibly go in the next season,

-keeping their capspace,
-making no major additions after they promised a big offseason when Marbury was traded,
-trading away a #7 pick because apparently they didn't think Iguodala would be there at #7
-and raise the ticket prices.

We might just as well become the new Clippers, Warriors or Nuggets of the West.

 

[slinslin]

sounds to me like bc is preparing everyone for a whole lot of nothing. we're screwed. cap room to facilitate trades? wtf? no one else in the nba is gonna measure up to kobe or tmac. duncan, yao, lebron or kg won't become available. and there is no indication that anyone else is on the block. so the suns are just hoping an opportunity ends up presenting itself eventually? THAT was the plan? to be able to do something if the opportunity arose? that's no friggin' plan at all! if that's the case then we DID just trade marbury for lampe and nothing. THAT will piss me off to no end. that may just be the beginning of my spiral downward outta love w/ the suns organization.

Exactly. Faciliating OTHER teams trades so they can get better as well will never get us anything that could ever make up for trading Marbury for unused capspace.
Especially since there are at least 2 teams with significantly more capspace out there than us.

 

[elindholm]

I can't see how the Suns could possibly go in the next season,

...making no major additions after they promised a big offseason when Marbury was traded

They may not have any choice. Bryant is probably staying with the Lakers, and if McGrady insists he won't waive his option year with Phoenix, that's probably dead too. Dallas will match any offer for Nash (especially if they need him for an O'Neal trade), and Okur -- even if, heaven forbid, the Suns do sign him -- hardly qualifies as a major addition.

It may be that the Suns will try their best and fail. That in itself is nothing to be ashamed of; the error will prove to have been dismantling the franchise on the blind faith that they'd be able to figure something out later.

 

[Joe Mama]

Bryan Colangelo himself said on the radio tonight that it's likely McGrady will end up in Houston after this weekend. He also said that his comments about McGrady's interest in playing here were based on sports reports and Internet columns... and not inside information. If McGrady would be signing as the free-agent there's no doubt this would be an attractive situation. He wouldn't be though.

And you guys keep missing the argument about what this team would be left with after a McGrady and Amare Stoudemire deal. It's not about how we perceive that. It's about how Tracy McGrady perceives it. He may not want to agree to stay with a team that has to give up two of its best three players and a valuable drafted to get him just because they have money to spend in free agency. If the trade talks dragged on through the summer and the Suns did sign some valuable free agents then he might see that they have good team to put around him. Even with Shawn Marion and JJ this team only won 8 more games than the Orlando team he would be leaving.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Even with Shawn Marion and JJ this team only won 8 more games than the Orlando team he would be leaving.

And don't forget that they had the benefit of Marbury's services for half the year too.

 

[slinslin]

They may not have any choice. Bryant is probably staying with the Lakers, and if McGrady insists he won't waive his option year with Phoenix, that's probably dead too. .

If that was true why is Bryan Colangelo saying on the radio that he thinks Phoenix is on TMac's short list?

He could just say that isn't the case and the deal is dead.

The deal isn't done because the Suns don't want to sacrifice JJ for it and are probably hoping the Houston deal still falls through and Orlando would return to their previous offer.

In fact Colangelo said on the radio that if Houston and Orlando trade, so be it. He didn't seem willing to outbid Houston.

 

[Ryanwb]

-making no major additions after they promised a big offseason when Marbury was traded

WTF do you want them to do? Squeeze water from sand? There are not a ton of options out there and the market is not unfolding as it appeared it would last season.

 

[slinslin]

Even with Shawn Marion and JJ this team only won 8 more games than the Orlando team he would be leaving.

And afterall that Houston team won only 16 games more than us considering that Amare missed 28 games, we changed our headcoach in midseason, we were by far the youngest team in the league and traded the main guy of our team at that point for nothing that could help us immediately.

 

[Chaz]

I want Ginobili!

(is he even on the market this summer? lol)

Me to Kate.

(If you mean you want him to play for the Suns next season.)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The suns got a B- on ESPN's draft grades.

They said in retrospect the suns would have been better grabbing Iggy with the #7. I have to agree...

 

[Chaz]

I have to laugh because this does not look good right now, I want some excitement and a player to get interested in. I'm sure Jackson Vroman is a nice pick maybe some inside depth, sounds like he is one of Cotton's "dirt workers" but this is pretty disappointing so far.


It is very early. I feel better starting the season with the team we finished with, than with the Steph and Amare combo. McGrady is a nice player but I am not over anxious to do something. We have YOUNG guys this might take a little while.

I find it hard to believe that we won't be able to get some positive contributions from Lampe, Barbosa or Zarko.

I know I pulled you out of context but on one hand you talked about how bad last years team was but then you expect Lampe, Barbosa, and Zarko to improve. If they will improve won't we already have a better team than last season? The problem last season was bench depth not necessarily starting talent. Except maybe at center even though McDyess was huge part of the lift to end the season. I am hoping the Suns build a team, I guess I don't expect them to be done right away.

I don't know who we will get in FA, or if we get no one, but I do know I will be following and rooting for the Suns next season no matter who they have.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I know I pulled you out of context but on one hand you talked about how bad last years team was but then you expect Lampe, Barbosa, and Zarko to improve. If they will improve won't we already have a better team than last season? The problem last season was bench depth not necessarily starting talent. Except maybe at center even though McDyess was huge part of the lift to end the season. I am hoping the Suns build a team, I guess I don't expect them to be done right away.

I don't know who we will get in FA, or if we get no one, but I do know I will be following and rooting for the Suns next season no matter who they have.

Where did I say last year's team was so bad? Granted, they were a major disappointment from the expectations at the beginning of the year, but there were definitely positive aspects by the end of the year. I think there is a good chance that at least one, and maybe all three can be significant contributors. I am of the opinion however, that with the contribution of a Kobe or McGrady, we'll have the inside/outside balance that can make us a contender for the title every year.

 

[slinslin]

What I would like to know is what Colangelo considers veterans.

From what he said about FAs it looks like their targets are "old" guys...

 

[Chaz]

No one else? The Suns have a bunch of young talented players on their rosters. Watching Amare develop at the end of last year, he looks by all accounts to be as dominating as anyone. I believe that the Suns have the ability to develop a Shaq-Kobe like duo with Amare and McGrady. I don't know how you can argue that the Suns would be a bad team with both Amare and McGrady on the team, I don't really care who you surround them with.

With 12 million dollars, we should be able to at least suppliment McGrady and Amare. There are quite a few options at point/shooting guard and at center. At this point, you find a few players who play maddog defense, and someone who can hit an open shot, ala Bruce Bowen. Seems like a much better option than supplimenting the current roster with Steve Nash and Mehmet Okur.

I guess I am not sure sure McGrady is better than last years team with a little leadership, and maybe I unfairly lumped you in with the Kobe/T-Mac or the entire year is a failure crowd.

I am excited about this team if we get T-mac or not. I am really excited about the team if they get Kobe. If the right deal is not there right now I am ready to go forward without both of them.

I just don't understand the sense of urgency?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I just don't understand the sense of urgency?

I think many of us are quite frustrated with how this team has been managed over the last 5 or so years. We were definitely spoiled by the teams of the late 80's and early to mid 90's. Winning became an expectation. Since then, it is has been one problem after another, a problem compounded with management's desire to reinvent the plan every year. Personally, I am tired of watching the Suns mediocrity, and while I will always support the team, I question many of the choices made. I think many of us grow tired of the losing, and that would explain the sense of urgency, in my opinion.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not really sure I follow this debate, but it seems to me the issue is a simple one "can you overpay for a superstar"? I think the answer is "yes", but I realize there are those who disagree on the theory that all non superstars are replaceable.

Overpaying has two meanings. One kind of overpaying is to offer far more than anyone else does by being gamed by the other side. The kind of overpaying is to give up more than you can afford. A deal that leaves the team weaker than it was it was before is just as bad as giving away too much. Actually it is worse because a team with a lot of good players can afford the hit more easily.

I honestly don't care what T-Mac is "objectively" worth, only what he is worth to the Suns.

BTW, it is been commonly said that Marion AND Johnson would be EASILY replaced. Considering how weak this year's free agent market it, I wonder exactly who is being contemplated.

 

[Chaz]

I think many of us are quite frustrated with how this team has been managed over the last 5 or so years. We were definitely spoiled by the teams of the late 80's and early to mid 90's. Winning became an expectation. Since then, it is has been one problem after another, a problem compounded with management's desire to reinvent the plan every year. Personally, I am tired of watching the Suns mediocrity, and while I will always support the team, I question many of the choices made. I think many of us grow tired of the losing, and that would explain the sense of urgency, in my opinion.

I understand the frustration. It seems like the Suns have had trouble since the new CBA, and it doesn't seem to be getting a lot better so far. The Suns had planned for cap space before and the lockout and Dice defection, really hit them hard and they have made some mistakes. Now they have cap space again and I hope they have a little more wisdom than last time. I am also excited about the new ownership and I think there are some fresh voices at the decision table. Like I said a young team requires some patience, I like the pieces we have so far and there are any number of players that could help this team next season.

I thought the Suns had a competetive team to end last season, and the goals of some team leadership are important to add, but I am not sure McGrady is a much better leader than the guys we have. He is a very talented player but his attitude and injury history do not make me very comfortable with putting the team on his sholders.

If people want to leave and not follow the Suns anymore fine, good luck too you and come back soon. But please don't sit around and talk about how you are going to quit following team. Talk about a downer, nothing has even happened yet and people are already calling next season a failure with out one of these two guys. I just don't buy that theory, maybe I am just too drunk on Suns koolade to see impending doom but so much could happen between now and training camp.

 

[Errntknght]

Don't forget there is a silver lining to all these clouds - BC's ineptness as a GM is coming into better focus! With any luck at all he'll be out within a year then 'as we progress toward the future, forward moving-wise' we'll get a real NBA coach.

(Now don't be too hard on my attempt to mimic Colangelese...)