ktar620

[Evil Ash]

Don't forget there is a silver lining to all these clouds - BC's ineptness as a GM is coming into better focus! With any luck at all he'll be out within a year

He's going to fire himself?

You do know he is part of the new ownership, right?

then 'as we progress toward the future, forward moving-wise' we'll get a real NBA coach.

You really are obsessed with this. Why not give him a year to see what he can do?

If they do well, he stays. If not, he gets fired.

 

[Errntknght]

Evil Ash "He's going to fire himself?
You do know he is part of the new ownership, right?"

Yup, I'm aware BC is a minority owner. And the majority owners won't fire him, they'll probably promote him to Sr. Vice President and Special Assistant to Daddy.


"You really are obsessed with this. Why not give him a year to see what he can do?"

Two reasons. The last four underqualified head coaches the Colangeli hired have demonstrated that the C's have no facility for recognizing coaching ability/readiness. When they go the same route again I expect the same result. Secondly, I've written several posts in which I detailed coach Mikey's failings to date. They are so severe I see almost no chance that he has the knowledge/skill to get this team to reach it's potential. And I am not moved by arguments that it's unfair to him - what was unfair was inflicting him on the team in the first place.
I've 'jumped the gun' in similar fashion calling for the ouster of the last four coaches as soon as they had convinced me they couldn't do the job - and I've survived a raft of flack for doing so. You can label it an obsession if that suits you, to me it's simply judging the coaching on what I observe on the floor.

 

[Yuma]

I want Ginobili!

(is he even on the market this summer? lol)

That's just like getting a SMALL Shawn Marion! Without the rebounds or steals!! No way on Ginobli!

 

[Joe Mama]

That's just like getting a SMALL Shawn Marion! Without the rebounds or steals!! No way on Ginobli!

I mentioned Ginobili is a possibility of couple of weeks ago. I don't think he's at all like Shawn Marion, but I'm not sure where he really fits with this team. I don't think he would sign here to be a sixth man, and he isn't a point guard. So unless JJ and/or Shawn Marion was traded I don't know where he would play for the Suns.

Ginobili is a good defender, but I'm not sure he is quite the sharpshooter the Suns would like. Playing with Tim Duncan he shot 42% from the field and 36% from behind the three-point line last year.

Joe Mama

 

[schutd]

Can anyone please give me a good explanation to this?

I can (though I havent read the rest of this thread and don't know if someone else easily refuted your assumptions)

The asssumption I speak of is the one that infers the SUns arent going to make a play for the big names. I didnt read that anywhere. I think, and this really is quite simple, the point is BC was saying that assuming the SUns can't get the biggies, they are not just going to go all willy nilly spending this money simply cause it's there. Thats the right play, by the way, even though the media and over zealous fans are going to go ballistic saying all the usual BS about how this team is solely in it for the bottom line.

Frankly, Im sick of it. I'd be pissed if this team over-spent in the FA market, just to placate some hard core fans who really dont understand the business of the game, and refuse to see the forrest through the trees.

 

[SunsTzu]

Frankly, Im sick of it. I'd be pissed if this team over-spent in the FA market, just to placate some hard core fans who really dont understand the business of the game, and refuse to see the forrest through the trees.

 

[schutd]

sounds to me like bc is preparing everyone for a whole lot of nothing. we're screwed. cap room to facilitate trades? wtf? no one else in the nba is gonna measure up to kobe or tmac. duncan, yao, lebron or kg won't become available. and there is no indication that anyone else is on the block. so the suns are just hoping an opportunity ends up presenting itself eventually? THAT was the plan? to be able to do something if the opportunity arose? that's no friggin' plan at all! if that's the case then we DID just trade marbury for lampe and nothing. THAT will piss me off to no end. that may just be the beginning of my spiral downward outta love w/ the suns organization.

thank god cards training camp is just around 2 months away . . . sheesh.

How do you spell overreation?

O-U-C-H-I-E-Z

 

[schutd]

I can't see how the Suns could possibly go in the next season,

-keeping their capspace,
-making no major additions after they promised a big offseason when Marbury was traded,
-trading away a #7 pick because apparently they didn't think Iguodala would be there at #7
-and raise the ticket prices.

We might just as well become the new Clippers, Warriors or Nuggets of the West.

Its as if you asll believe that just becasue we have the money, and we made these trades to position ourselves for this offseason that everything else will just magically fall into place.

That notion is rediculous. Of course, if we dont end up getting Kobe, which I think we can all assume is the SUns main priority, that everyone will assume that we didnt do anything at all. Ahhhh, fans. SO frustrating.

 

[schutd]

I can't see how the Suns could possibly go in the next season,

...making no major additions after they promised a big offseason when Marbury was traded

They may not have any choice. Bryant is probably staying with the Lakers, and if McGrady insists he won't waive his option year with Phoenix, that's probably dead too. Dallas will match any offer for Nash (especially if they need him for an O'Neal trade), and Okur -- even if, heaven forbid, the Suns do sign him -- hardly qualifies as a major addition.

It may be that the Suns will try their best and fail. That in itself is nothing to be ashamed of; the error will prove to have been dismantling the franchise on the blind faith that they'd be able to figure something out later.

Holy crap! SOmeone who gets it. of course it's Elindholm.

I would argue further that while the error he speaks of is there, it was a worthwhile gamble at the time, because what we had going at the time wasnt going to net us much more than we ended up with post trade, and we STILL go into next season with almost limitless flexibility.

 

[Chaplin]

Holy crap! SOmeone who gets it. of course it's Elindholm.

I would argue further that while the error he speaks of is there, it was a worthwhile gamble at the time, because what we had going at the time wasnt going to net us much more than we ended up with post trade, and we STILL go into next season with almost limitless flexibility.

I know you're frustrated by some of the posts here, but look at it this way--a lot of people are (wrongfully) assuming that if we don't get Kobe/Tmac/Shaq, that means one thing: Mehmet Okur is on the way to the desert. And they're not happy.

 

[schutd]

I know you're frustrated by some of the posts here, but look at it this way--a lot of people are (wrongfully) assuming that if we don't get Kobe/Tmac/Shaq, that means one thing: Mehmet Okur is on the way to the desert. And they're not happy.

I know. I think my frustration grows becasue I dont get to be involved in the madness in real time, I have to sift back thru 6 pages of it the next day.

And hey, if the Suns end up signing Okur, and DON'T overpay for him, and STILL arent able to complete any other deals, I'd be OK with it. I have faith that they are trying.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Holy crap! SOmeone who gets it. of course it's Elindholm.

I would argue further that while the error he speaks of is there, it was a worthwhile gamble at the time, because what we had going at the time wasnt going to net us much more than we ended up with post trade, and we STILL go into next season with almost limitless flexibility.

Yep, that's the thing that riles me. Its holding a firesale and then finding out there's no fire.

The Googs trade, and this trade of a pick were just bad decisions.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I just don't understand the sense of urgency?

to me at least, the sense of urgency stems from the fact that players of tmacs or kobe's caliber do not come available very often. and we're finally in a position to take advantage of that availability, which is uncommon also (how many other teams wish they had our flexibility to legitimately pursue these guys right now). so if we swing and miss on both of 'em we've all but blown our shot for a known top 5 player. for what? for nash okur? for barry blount? feechh.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ginobili is a good defender, but I'm not sure he is quite the sharpshooter the Suns would like. Playing with Tim Duncan he shot 42% from the field and 36% from behind the three-point line last year.

Joe Mama

and he's not that young for someone who is not a polished product yet. don't want him. he's part of that distasteful nashmanuokur stew.

 

[schutd]

Yep, that's the thing that riles me. Its holding a firesale and then finding out there's no fire.

The Googs trade, and this trade of a pick were just bad decisions.

But I would argue there WAS a fire. We stunk with Marbury, and we needed to take some sort of hit to get the flexibilty we have now. Did it ensure that we would get who we were shooting for in the offseason? Nope. But it was a reasonable gamble based on the returns we were getting from this team before the Marbury trade.

EDIT: I didnt read your post well. I guess you could argue the Googs trade, but that too was a gamble. What is the status on paying luxury tax?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I can (though I havent read the rest of this thread and don't know if someone else easily refuted your assumptions)

The asssumption I speak of is the one that infers the SUns arent going to make a play for the big names. I didnt read that anywhere. I think, and this really is quite simple, the point is BC was saying that assuming the SUns can't get the biggies, they are not just going to go all willy nilly spending this money simply cause it's there. Thats the right play, by the way, even though the media and over zealous fans are going to go ballistic saying all the usual BS about how this team is solely in it for the bottom line.

Frankly, Im sick of it. I'd be pissed if this team over-spent in the FA market, just to placate some hard core fans who really dont understand the business of the game, and refuse to see the forrest through the trees.

i don't disagree with this. in fact, i hope they DON'T try to go the placate route they took years ago when they signed googs and longley, but i'm worried that they will . . . nashmanuokur . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How do you spell overreation?

O-U-C-H-I-E-Z

it's not an overreaction . . . it's a complilation of frustration built from the day marbs was traded for cap space w/ a promise of something big to come outta the flexibility. if nothing big comes outta it what are we left with? a 28 win team with one less valuable piece. a piece that was acquired for jason kidd. if we ended up trading jason kidd for lampe and space that is never fully used to gain impact players then we have simply outswindled ourselves.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Its as if you asll believe that just becasue we have the money, and we made these trades to position ourselves for this offseason that everything else will just magically fall into place.

That notion is rediculous. Of course, if we dont end up getting Kobe, which I think we can all assume is the SUns main priority, that everyone will assume that we didnt do anything at all. Ahhhh, fans. SO frustrating.

no, that's not it all. you've completely missed the boat. it's that if we made all these trades to position ourselves thusly without having some inkling of what would happen then the suns are idiots. you don't trade away pieces (like marbury and all those draft picks - i count, what, 3 first round picks we've now traded away since the marbs deal?) if you don't feel solidly that your plans will come to fruition. that's just hoping things work out. who does that?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Holy crap! SOmeone who gets it. of course it's Elindholm.

I would argue further that while the error he speaks of is there, it was a worthwhile gamble at the time, because what we had going at the time wasnt going to net us much more than we ended up with post trade, and we STILL go into next season with almost limitless flexibility.

praytell, how does that limitless flexibility help us next season? we'll end up losing unused cap space when we have to resign jj, so if we don't use it prior to that it was just wasted.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know you're frustrated by some of the posts here, but look at it this way--a lot of people are (wrongfully) assuming that if we don't get Kobe/Tmac/Shaq, that means one thing: Mehmet Okur is on the way to the desert. And they're not happy.

i don't beleive that to be the case, just mighty worried that it might be . . .

 

[schutd]

it's not an overreaction . . . it's a complilation of frustration built from the day marbs was traded for cap space w/ a promise of something big to come outta the flexibility. if nothing big comes outta it what are we left with? a 28 win team with one less valuable piece. a piece that was acquired for jason kidd. if we ended up trading jason kidd for lampe and space that is never fully used to gain impact players then we have simply outswindled ourselves.

I was just funnin ya. Believe me I understand everyone's frustration. I just dont think theres a damn thing we can do about it, so I choose to not let it frustrate me, TOO much.

I dont think Marbury, win wise ever proved to be a valuable piece however, and I think that in the long term this team is better off without him and that HUGE contrsact he was signed to. better to admit your mistake and deal him when the value was there than be stuck with that albatross of a contract.

 

[schutd]

no, that's not it all. you've completely missed the boat. it's that if we made all these trades to position ourselves thusly without having some inkling of what would happen then the suns are idiots. you don't trade away pieces (like marbury and all those draft picks - i count, what, 3 first round picks we've now traded away since the marbs deal?) if you don't feel solidly that your plans will come to fruition. that's just hoping things work out. who does that?

And you are able to show me that the Suns didnt do this?

Look all the reaseach and statistics playing in the world still only nets you odds of being able to pull something off. If I felt the SUns were idiots, I wouldnt invest one iota of time in them. So I can only assume theat they are doing the best job possible. Im not a kool-aider, by any means, but I am a realist.

And reality is that we will never know the facts surrounding why the SUns make the decisions they do. if you choose to speculate and end up frustrated everytime it doesnt play out the way all you armchair Point Guards seem to hope for, thats cool, its not worth the energy to me. Id rather let the organization take care of all the business, and Ill just root for the team they field. Being a fan is MUCH easier that way, trust me.

 

[scotsman13]

for me the thing that want to see this team do the most. is the thing that they have had the hardest time doing, that is sit on their roster for a while build a core and let it develop. they did it with kj, chambers, west and horny. they have some very good pieces in amare, jj and marion, i also think that barbosa, zarko and lampe may develop in to very good players. if we can find a good rebounding, shot blocking player to fill out this roster then you will have a great team in time but it will take time.

 

[slinslin]

Did any KJ-Suns team ever lose 53 games in a season? No... they never missed the playoffs. Of course they were keeping them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I was just funnin ya. Believe me I understand everyone's frustration. I just dont think theres a damn thing we can do about it, so I choose to not let it frustrate me, TOO much.

I dont think Marbury, win wise ever proved to be a valuable piece however, and I think that in the long term this team is better off without him and that HUGE contrsact he was signed to. better to admit your mistake and deal him when the value was there than be stuck with that albatross of a contract.

but the problem is that if we get nothing in the way of significant free agents then we didn't get any value for him at all.