Kurt Warner's play today?

[moklerman]

It's so difficult speaking to you and IA since everything circles back to Warner is great and you better believe it mentality.

That's how you're taking it, not how it's being presented(speaking for myself).

But no, he didn't allay my fears about him from previous weeks that he can't last a season at a high level.

I don't understand what you're basing this on. He's shown for almost 2 years now that he can play at a high level. Give him any semblance of a running game and his numbers have been pretty elite.

Can he run the system Whis WANTS and not the system Whis has because of his QB? That is the big question.

Again, I think it's a huge assumption that Warner is dictating, either vocally or because of his limitations, that Whis run an offense that he doesn't want to run. Warner has had to adjust his game to what Whis & Haley want in terms of protecting the ball and how to approach the game so I really doubt that Warner is the one in control of the offensive philosophy. Warner wasn't the one who benched Edge leading to even less running and he wasn't the one that made Hightower disappear after his initial start.

Warner loves to pass and Edge loves to run and Fitz and Q love to catch passes. Of course they want to do what the love to do but Edge led the league in touches the last couple of years and it got the Cardinals no where near where they were this year. I have no doubt in my mind that Warner would continue to play well if he had a running game to lean on and/or ran out of more conventional sets. I posted in a different thread that his numbers are actually quite higher when not in the shotgun so I think it's a bit of a myth that he can't or won't succeed with a better rushing attack. Plus, the Cardinals are going to be keeping Q so there's no way they're going to be the Giants in '09 or '10. If that's the case, don't you want the QB that completes 67% of his passes rather than the youngster who's completed 55% in his career?

He did, and he still hands the ball off slower than molasses. And we still didn't run the ball over 100 yards in this game, against the 25th ranked run defense, a team that let SAINT LOUIS run for more than 200 yards on them.

C'mon, you know the Falcons weren't taking that game seriously and in any case, the Cardinals may not have rushed for 100+ yards but they did manage 4.3/carry which is all they needed to open up the passing game. We're talking playoff football here and if a team can average 4.3 on 22 attempts they'll take it every time.

 

[Totally_Red]

2 cents worth

I'd give Kurt a B+ for this game. Got off to a slow start. But in all fairness the O-line protection was spotty early on and Edge missed a blitzing Lawyer Malloy forcing one early incompletion. He was 19 of 32 and should have been at least 21 of 32 with Urban's 'drop' and Anquan's critical drop of a perfect third down pass just outside FG range early on.

BUT he, and the Cardinals offense, will have to get off to a better start on the east coast IMO.

All in all, a solid game by the Cardinals. How bout that Michael Adams as a gunner? Best hit on special teams in a long time when he leveled Harry Douglas on the punt return.

 

[PJ1]

It's really inspiring how so many here can choose not to enjoy a good game by THEIR quarterback and a big win. Like I said, I had visions of coming on here tonight and soaking up all the good vibes and jubilation that would certainly permeate the board.

Granted, it was foolish to think there would be a sense of water under the bridge with those that I've sparred with regarding Warner and having them give a tip of the cap to me for my guy but congrats to you all. I commend your pissing efforts on my parade.

Not sure what you are talking about as I thought Warner had a great game. Your reaction to any criticism and wanting to be congratulated for his performance is what I am referring to.

 

[Linderbee]

You don't stop at a green light because it's eventually going to turn red do you?

Since no one addressed this, No, I don't stop at a green light because it will eventually turn red. But I sure as HELL stop for a yellow light when I know it will be red soon.

I thought Warner did good today. I felt he played SMART football. I was happy all around, really, with his performance. I still think we need to move forward next year. Warner's shown enough this year to make me believe he's a yellow light about to turn red.

And you know he's great. Why throw it away if he wants two more years. I'm not sold enough on Leinart to do that. I mean I don't expect his numbers to be as great as they are now, but I don't think his game will fall apart either.

With all due respect, the reason you're probably not sold on Leinart is because you love Warner so much. If Warner were playing elsewhere, and we had some other QB you had no emotional attachment to playing right now, I suspect you'd have a much different attitude about Matt. Of course, that is jmho; obviously can't be proven.

 

[slanidrac16]

Okay, I'll take 270, 2 TD, 95 rating and 30 points and a home playoff win. All of you can bitch and moan because that's just not good enough or bad or awful as some have mentioned.

Forget it Moklerman. Some people just will never get. If that hurts anybody's feelings, tough.
WE WON THE GAME. There are many bitchin about the defense too. And about CP. All the defense did was hold Turner to 42 yards, score a TD, force a safety and get 2 picks.....but that's not good enough because we "let" the Falcons drive the ball down and score their ONLY points in the second half with 4 minutes left to play.
I guess it's human nature for some to gripe with a loaf of bread under each arm.
ENJOY THE MOMENT!

 

[RolleRocks]

Yes, because good qbs are a dime a dozen in the NFL, yet we have a high draft pick who has shown great progress and good talent on our bench...so we should let him walk to allow Kurt to captain us through his 39th birthday?

Play the odds, man. The odds are, we have a potentially very good QB, and you want to basically move him for a FA content to back up Kurt?

Are you talking about Leinart here?

Enough with this notion that Leinart is even close to Warner.

The dropoff will be substantial.

You discount what Warner did as "dime a dozen?"

The game against Atlanta was flat-out tough.

Warner had lots of traffic in the pocket, was hit a ton, and was forced to throw to tightly covered receivers open only for a split second.

The focus of the whole defense was to stop Warner, not Edge, not Hightower, not JJ.

And you discount his performance as something any NFL QB could do, even a player like Leinart who has done essentially NOTHING in the NFL?

Here is the reality: Leinart has shown no ability to play in the NFL under these circumstances.

In fact, the last game he played under these circumstances was '07 at Baltimore. And in that game he crapped his pants.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Are you talking about Leinart here?

Enough with this notion that Leinart is even close to Warner.

The dropoff will be substantial.

You discount what Warner did as "dime a dozen?"
The game against Atlanta was flat-out tough.

Warner had lots of traffic in the pocket, was hit a ton, and was forced to throw to tightly covered receivers open only for a split second.

The focus of the whole defense was to stop Warner, not Edge, not Hightower, not JJ.

And you discount his performance as something any NFL QB could do, even a player like Leinart who has done essentially NOTHING in the NFL?

Here is the reality: Leinart has shown no ability to play in the NFL under these circumstances.

In fact, the last game he played under these circumstances was '07 at Baltimore. And in that game he crapped his pants.

He was being facetious.

(facetious - cleverly amusing in tone; "a bantering tone"; "facetious remarks"; "tongue-in-cheek advice")

 

[IAWarnerFan]

With all due respect, the reason you're probably not sold on Leinart is because you love Warner so much. If Warner were playing elsewhere, and we had some other QB you had no emotional attachment to playing right now, I suspect you'd have a much different attitude about Matt. Of course, that is jmho; obviously can't be proven.

To a point I'm going to have to agree with this. Is there anything wrong with loving how Kurt Warner has been playing like when we needed him the most. That's what the truely greats do and what Kurt Warner has done this season. Honestly, I am holding Leinart numbers against him a bit and I know that's not completely fair, but who's to say that's not the type of luck he'll have his whole career? If he had at least as many TDs as turnovers it would help me be at ease with the move as a Cardinals fan.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Kurt played a near flawless game yesterday. The Falcons were in their nickel and dime packages nearly every play all game long. Kurt showed tremendous poise and patience as he took all that the Falcons were willing to give him.
The TD to Q was vintage Warner. He stepped to the line, recognized the corner blitz and knew instantly that Q would be the hot receiver. He stood in and faced the blitzing corner, then threw the pass to Q right before getting hit. From that point on, Q on a slower safety who took an awful angle was simply a mis-match...
Kurt protected the ball and the one INT was not at all his fault as Urban somehow let a perfect throw hit his shoulder pads and bounce off...

It's pointless to raise the Leinart debate at this stage. Most knowledgeable football folk know full-well that Matt is not (yet?) able to produce this sort of performance, at this level, at this stage of the season.
Let's just enjoy what Kurt is doing for our team and ride it as along as we can! Next season, I am confident Whiz will once again make the right call - whatever that might be...

 

[RonF]

The Cards won, I thought Kurt read the defense real well finding the open man. I'll say the same thing about Matt when he leads us to the promised land also.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Or we see a guy who's stats somewhat belie his struggles. Early he was bad. Save the Fitz TD, which was a jump ball in double coverage (where Fitz, amazing as he is, made the play) and the catch and run by a wide-open Boldin, Warner couldn't hit anyone. He wasn't good. But of course, you miss that.

Earlier you say that the pass to Urban hit him in the chest, then once sentence later say "ok, maybe it hit him in the shoulder..." Really? Where'd it him? I think it should have been caught, but it was not a good pass, and it got picked off.

Warner came on strong in the 4th, which was huge, but he was rather erratic most of the day.

Also, you say 30 points, but 9 of them are not of the offense's doing.

I'll give you that was not Warner's best game, and he still looks a little shaky.

But the TD throw to Fitz was NOT a jump ball. It was a freaking strike.

 

[green machine]

I'll give you that was not Warner's best game, and he still looks a little shaky.

But the TD throw to Fitz was NOT a jump ball. It was a freaking strike.

Fair enough, it got there, and that's all that matters.

All the same, I was jumping up and screaming with excitement when it happened, so it's all good.

 

[lobo]

Kurt played a near flawless game yesterday.

It's pointless to raise the Leinart debate at this stage. Most knowledgeable football folk know full-well that Matt is not (yet?) able to produce this sort of performance, at this level, at this stage of the season.
Let's just enjoy what Kurt is doing for our team and ride it as along as we can! Next season, I am confident Whiz will once again make the right call - whatever that might be...

Well said!!

 

[Cards232]

A couple of interesting points, Did anyone else notice the graphic last night that Warner lead the league w/ 165 sacks/knockdows? Those numbers only increased last night, especially early. I think that was a big part of the problem w/ the last several games. When we were on a roll for the first 3/4 of the season, Warner was able to release at the very last second. Towards the end, the line was losing that last split second. Same thing w/ the beginning of last nights game.

It's not like Warner had all day & was just missing throws. When he had that split second more in the second half, he did far better. It takes a certain amount of time to run routes. Often, that split second more can make a world of difference, especially w/ guys like Warner & Manning.

Also, for those that are saying Warner played poorly or average. You do realize that on the biggest stage thus far in the season, Warner out-played the reigning MVP of the league, the #1 rated qb in the league, & the rookie of the year. Remember, these are the playoffs. We're not playing the menial teams anymore. The playoffs are about the best. The Falcons didn't just fall into an 11-5 record.

Some have legitimately complained about those that treat Warner as a God, as someone who is infalible, but yet on the other hand, expect him to play as if he were. I find that curious. Just food for thought.

 

[green machine]

A couple of interesting points, Did anyone else notice the graphic last night that Warner lead the league w/ 165 sacks/knockdows? Those numbers only increased last night, especially early. I think that was a big part of the problem w/ the last several games. When we were on a roll for the first 3/4 of the season, Warner was able to release at the very last second. Towards the end, the line was losing that last split second. Same thing w/ the beginning of last nights game.

It's not like Warner had all day & was just missing throws. When he had that split second more in the second half, he did far better. It takes a certain amount of time to run routes. Often, that split second more can make a world of difference, especially w/ guys like Warner & Manning.

Also, for those that are saying Warner played poorly or average. You do realize that on the biggest stage thus far in the season, Warner out-played the reigning MVP of the league, the #1 rated qb in the league, & the rookie of the year. Remember, these are the playoffs. We're not playing the menial teams anymore. The playoffs are about the best. The Falcons didn't just fall into an 11-5 record.

Some have legitimately complained about those that treat Warner as a God, as someone who is infalible, but yet on the other hand, expect him to play as if he were. I find that curious. Just food for thought.

I honestly feel like this is the worst argument here, as Kurt wasn't facing the same defenses as those guys.

 

[moklerman]

Thanks to the ASFN masses for restoring my faith in Cardinals fans. It's reassuring to know that I'm not nearly as unobjective as some think as evidenced by the many similar thoughts expressed by many of you.

I apologize for letting the vocal few draw me in with their bait.

 

[moklerman]

I honestly feel like this is the worst argument here, as Kurt wasn't facing the same defenses as those guys.

So unless all four QB's face the same exact defense it isn't a good point? Or do you mean Warner didn't face as good of a defense as they faced?

 

[Cards232]

I honestly feel like this is the worst argument here, as Kurt wasn't facing the same defenses as those guys.

You're right, the Falcons defense is actually ranked higher than the Chargers.

 

[green machine]

You're right, the Falcons defense is actually ranked higher than the Chargers.

Just saying it's a bad argument, and you're not the only one making it.

I don't care about those other QBs, only about ours.

 

[green machine]

So unless all four QB's face the same exact defense it isn't a good point? Or do you mean Warner didn't face as good of a defense as they faced?

Sorry, didn't see your post.

Like my previous one, however, to me it doesn't matter what other QBs did in their games, as it has no relevance to what Kurt did in his game.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Or we see a guy who's stats somewhat belie his struggles. Early he was bad. Save the Fitz TD, which was a jump ball in double coverage (where Fitz, amazing as he is, made the play) and the catch and run by a wide-open Boldin, Warner couldn't hit anyone. He wasn't good. But of course, you miss that.

Earlier you say that the pass to Urban hit him in the chest, then once sentence later say "ok, maybe it hit him in the shoulder..." Really? Where'd it him? I think it should have been caught, but it was not a good pass, and it got picked off.

Warner came on strong in the 4th, which was huge, but he was rather erratic most of the day.

Also, you say 30 points, but 9 of them are not of the offense's doing.

Not trying to start a fight here, but really you just sound like a hater.

I am not sure what game you watched, but go back and look at the bomb to Fitz and you will see that that pass was absolutely 100% perfect from Warner. He knows Fitz's abilities and put the ball where only he could make a play on it. Neither DB could have even touched it whether Larry went up to get it or not.

The pass to Urban was all Urban. It was impossible for Warner to put the ball in his chest because Urban was turned sideways. Kurt would have to be throwing from the sideline for that to happen. That ball was where it was supposed to be.

As far as him missing targets early in the game, well he did miss a few but he was also hit while throwing three or four times when the ball came up short.

Kurt didn't have his greatest game, but to say that he wasn't good is a sad understatement. Atlanta may not have had the best D, but it wasn't garbage either. They didn't just go to sleep and wake up @ 11-5. it was no accident. We beat a damn good team yesterday and Kurt was a key to that.

 

[moklerman]

Like my previous one, however, to me it doesn't matter what other QBs did in their games, as it has no relevance to what Kurt did in his game.

Then you're only condemning your own lack of perspective. When it comes to playoffs in general and when compared to what all--ALL the other QB's have done this weekend it's an absurd statement to claim that Warner was awful, bad or average.

One has to consider what all of the others are doing in similar circumstances to understand what is reasonable to expect of Warner. In which case he performed to a level that should be far less criticized.

 

[Cards232]

Just saying it's a bad argument, and you're not the only one making it.

I don't care about those other QBs, only about ours.

As I said earlier, "Some have legitimately complained about those that treat Warner as a God, as someone who is infalible, but yet on the other hand, expect him to play as if he were. I find that curious. Just food for thought."

 

[slanidrac16]

Not trying to start a fight here, but really you just sound like a hater.

I am not sure what game you watched, but go back and look at the bomb to Fitz and you will see that that pass was absolutely 100% perfect from Warner. He knows Fitz's abilities and put the ball where only he could make a play on it. Neither DB could have even touched it whether Larry went up to get it or not.

The pass to Urban was all Urban. It was impossible for Warner to put the ball in his chest because Urban was turned sideways. Kurt would have to be throwing from the sideline for that to happen. That ball was where it was supposed to be.

As far as him missing targets early in the game, well he did miss a few but he was also hit while throwing three or four times when the ball came up short.

Kurt didn't have his greatest game, but to say that he wasn't good is a sad understatement. Atlanta may not have had the best D, but it wasn't garbage either. They didn't just go to sleep and wake up @ 11-5. it was no accident. We beat a damn good team yesterday and Kurt was a key to that.

Warner did what needed to be done to win. We won because EVERYBODY did what they needed to do to win. It's nice not to have to depend on one guy.
One more thing about the pass to Urban. If he gets his head turn and makes the catch it would have been a HUGE gain.

 

[moklerman]

"Some have legitimately complained about those that treat Warner as a God,

I feel compelled to deny qualifications for that group.