Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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I dub the 2025 season the . . .

I PROMISE YOU, BRO Season of . . . Ehhhh

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the challenge is that I think that our QB and OC are actually exactly par. It's much easier to get where you want to go when one or both are clearly in the top quartile in their roles, but now we have to have an elite running game and/or defense to support these guys. Be physically superior.

It's a harder row to hoe, but the movement and objective is clear if and when you have a known commodity in those roles, too.



I know you want to believe that. Showing him studying and breaking down film is not visually compelling. But it would be extremely easy for someone on this staff to complement how hard Kyler is working on the mental aspect of the game how he's leading in the film room, etc., etc.

Shame on the local press not to ask about it.

Exactly. Showing studying may not be as sexy as showing him hopping, but for true fans that know kyker it would be much more welcome visually. And getting comments from him or the staff about the classroom would go miles in convincing many fans that he truly has matured in that fashion.

In my experience, when someone wants to flatter someone else and does not mention something that would be important (like study habits of a guy rumored to have mediocre study habits) it’s because they can’t make the statement in good conscience. They just can’t bring themselves to lie.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Exactly. Showing studying may not be as sexy as showing him hopping, but for true fans that know kyker it would be much more welcome visually. And getting comments from him or the staff about the classroom would go miles in convincing many fans that he truly has matured in that fashion.

In my experience, when someone wants to flatter someone else and does not mention something that would be important (like study habits of a guy rumored to have mediocre study habits) it’s because they can’t make the statement in good conscience. They just can’t bring themselves to lie.

Ouchie bringing the real talk

How come others can't see this or refuse to see it?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I’m not sure about your last statement. But he doesn’t have much of a choice. That’s who he is forced to go k to battle with this season. He has to have his back. This year.

He has no choice this year due to his contract and we all can't see MB eating any more money

I believe next year they move on from him if he doesn't improve

If they don't move him the gloves will be off for JG and MO to call him out for shortcomings

 

[kerouac9]

He has no choice this year due to his contract and we all can't see MB eating any more money

I believe next year they move on from him if he doesn't improve

If they don't move him the gloves will be off for JG and MO to call him out for shortcomings

$36.8 million of his 2026 salary becomes guaranteed on 3/17.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I’m not sure about your last statement. But he doesn’t have much of a choice. That’s who he is forced to go k to battle with this season. He has to have his back. This year.

You may be right.

What I am truly impressed with is the unwavering support Murray has received from MO/JG. K1 could not have asked for better.

 

[football karma]

In my experience, when someone wants to flatter someone else and does not mention something that would be important (like study habits of a guy rumored to have mediocre study habits) it’s because they can’t make the statement in good conscience. They just can’t bring themselves to lie.

in fairness: plenty of quotes from teammates talking about how Kyler knows the offense inside and out, he was correcting them, etc.

also in fairness: knowing the offense and knowing how to react to a defensive look in a given week can be two different things

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That, yes, and also his processing ability. No amount of study will significantly change how fast you can process what is happening before your eyes. A QB eventually reaches a ceiling there. Players like Manning had a very high ceiling. I think Kyler's is too low.

I don’t agree. Each individual certainly has a ceiling. But processing speed can be, imo, 100% enhanced by study. Knowing what to look for, understanding tendencies, and identifying tells allows a good qb to skip forward in their play analysis on each snap much more quickly. Again is there a ceiling for each player? Sure. Am I confident that Kyler has reached the ceiling and maximized his processing ability via study? No. I am not.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You may be right.

What I am truly impressed with is the unwavering support Murray has received from MO/JG. K1 could not have asked for better.

Agree with that he’s been given the support. He’s been given weapons. It’s past time he does the giving (and not to the other team) and lifting up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

in fairness: plenty of quotes from teammates talking about how Kyler knows the offense inside and out, he was correcting them, etc.

also in fairness: knowing the offense and knowing how to react to a defensive look in a given week can be two different things

Correct. When we say “study” I’m not so much talking about knowing the offense. Learning a playbook isn’t typically difficult. Not when you’re in the same offense for two+ years. It’s the weekly grind of studying your opponent inside and out that I believe comes into question. And we don’t hear anything about that.

 

[Shane]

Correct. When we say “study” I’m not so much talking about knowing the offense. Learning a playbook isn’t typically difficult. Not when you’re in the same offense for two+ years. It’s the weekly grind of studying your opponent inside and out that I believe comes into question. And we don’t hear anything about that.

Yep, it’s like that video of Tom Brady, where he said he can attribute all of his success to studying the other team relentlessly… he said there’s plenty of people more talented than him, but where he excelled was knowing what the defense was going to do before he even snapped the ball. He said he literally spent countless hours studying each opponent.

 

[football karma]

I don’t agree. Each individual certainly has a ceiling. But processing speed can be, imo, 100% enhanced by study.

there is a cottage industry of mediocre ex-NFL qbs in the media and on youtube who clearly know what they see, but never could do it fast enough in real time to make it in the league. Dan Orvlosky is one.

 

[DVontel]

Am I confident that Kyler has reached the ceiling and maximized his processing ability via study? No. I am not.

Why not?

 

[DVontel]

Yep, it’s like that video of Tom Brady, where he said he can attribute all of his success to studying the other team relentlessly… he said there’s plenty of people more talented than him, but where he excelled was knowing what the defense was going to do before he even snapped the ball. He said he literally spent countless hours studying each opponent.

You sound like Mitch, lol.

 

[DVontel]

Kyler can dedicate an entire episode of him watching & studying film by himself & with teammates/coaching staff to please you guys.

What will your response be when he continues to play like his inconsistent self?

 

[football karma]

Agree with that he’s been given the support. He’s been given weapons.

first part, yes. second part? from a WR standpoint in 2024: the Cards were clearly last in the division in 3 WRs and probably last in non-QB skill positions taken as a whole. Adjust for injury and they pass SF.

in the NFC, for non QB skill positions-- I would put them maybe 12th or so.

 

[kerouac9]

first part, yes. second part? from a WR standpoint in 2024: the Cards were clearly last in the division in 3 WRs and probably last in non-QB skill positions taken as a whole. Adjust for injury and they pass SF.

in the NFC, for non QB skill positions-- I would put them maybe 12th or so.

Conner wasn’t the best RB to play 10 games in the NFC West last season?

McBride wasn’t a top 2 TE in the division?

Kyler can dedicate an entire episode of him watching & studying film by himself & with teammates/coaching staff to please you guys.

What will your response be when he continues to play like his inconsistent self?

We’d probably look for other explanations, but “he’s still not doing the things he was quoted saying he doesn’t do” seems like a pretty obvious one in our current timeline.

“Here’s how a pro QB breaks down film” seems like a fair topic for his audience.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

first part, yes. second part? from a WR standpoint in 2024: the Cards were clearly last in the division in 3 WRs and probably last in non-QB skill positions taken as a whole. Adjust for injury and they pass SF.

in the NFC, for non QB skill positions-- I would put them maybe 12th or so.

Agree with the idea that, save maybe for 2021, Murray has not been surrounded by an arsenal of skill position talent. Our o-line has been middle of the pack at best, too.

Neither was the cupboard bare in 2024 however, and, except in the clutch, we were actually good offensively (around 12th in yards and points).

For the offense as a whole, there's hope for this upcoming season.

 

[football karma]

Conner wasn’t the best RB to play 10 games in the NFC West last season?

McBride wasn’t a top 2 TE in the division?

talking skill position taken as a whole for 2024: 3 WRs, 1 TE and 1 RB.

McBride is probably second only to Kittle in the NFC. Connor is top 7 in the NFC. The Card WR group is bottom 4 in the NFC

 

[kerouac9]

The Card WR group is bottom 4 in the NFC

Monty killing it out there

 

[football karma]

Monty killing it out there

it probably gets better next year just due to experience

but look at the NFC playoff teams #1 WR:

AJ Brown
Puka Nacua
Terry McLaurin
Christian Watson (?)
Justin Jefferson
Mike Evans
Amon St Brown


Maybe Marv is the Packers #1 next year, but nowhere else

i think WR is an underrated need for the Cards this offseason

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

there is a cottage industry of mediocre ex-NFL qbs in the media and on youtube who clearly know what they see, but never could do it fast enough in real time to make it in the league. Dan Orvlosky is one.

It’s one thing to breakdown film after a play, it’s another thing to develop the ability to diagnose before a play starts. Don’t confuse talking heads on tv with what we are talking about.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why not?

Because i don’t think I’ve seen the recognition and what should be the resulting anticipatory play on the field. He never seems ahead of the defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kyler can dedicate an entire episode of him watching & studying film by himself & with teammates/coaching staff to please you guys.

What will your response be when he continues to play like his inconsistent self?

That he’s maxed out and has no chance of improving.

 

[DVontel]

That he’s maxed out and has no chance of improving.

Which I believe is the case, I just don’t need physical evidence of him studying to see it.