Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Chopper0080]

Almost posted in the Petzing thread, but still not great body language on a must have play.

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It’s also why I wished he was ready to run when sent a man blitz.

This is so weird.

 

[BritCard]

The good thing is the next 5 (especially the next 3) will tell us a lot about Kyler going forward.

Next 3 games are games top 10 to 12 QBs should win.

Sweeping the Rams/49ers is tough no matter how down they are. If the defense keeps playing like they're playing then he should get one or both done as well.

The division is still there for him to take. Better to take the humbling losses earlier than at the very end.


I said the same thing in 2020 though.

Rams is going to be a hard game. In fact I think we are underdogs. They are healthy again and playing good football.

Panthers ain't going to be easy either. Pushed the Chiefs to 27-30 and took the Bucs to overtime and lost to a fumble. Probably should have won both games. They are an improving team.

 

[Stout]

DHop owned the sidelines (he freaking owned them) and Kirk could occasionally get behind defenses.

But MHJ is no DHop (not even close, at least not yet) and Dortch is no Kirk (love his big heart but he'll never be Kirk).

All of the "this could be the best offense in the league" was predicated on our WR room being above average. It's not.

It's certainly not going to be the best offense in the league, for the reasons you indicate. Not at all. It absolutely must be, and should be, better than it is currently. By a lot.

 

[Stout]

This is fair. I don't think any of us are saying he sucks or is having a terrible year, just that he hasn't been as good as we hope he can be.

Exactly.

 

[Stout]

There are plenty of people on here and in the fanbase ready to move from K1 based on this season.

Its delusional

There's that cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head. Quite incorrect.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It's certainly not going to be the best offense in the league, for the reasons you indicate. Not at all. It absolutely must be, and should be, better than it is currently. By a lot.

That's an interesting take - "must/should be better than it is".

I think we have to consider the context of the defenses we've faced, although being the hard (but mostly fair) man you are I doubt you're willing to give the offense very much latitude for this.

Here are some stats from google:

• Passing yards per game: 205.9, which ranks 20th overall
• Rushing yards per game: 141.4, which ranks 6th overall
• Total yards per game: 347.3, which ranks 11th overall
• Third down percentage: 41.1, which ranks 10th overall
• 16th in the NFL for points scored per game in 2024, averaging 22.2 points per game

What do you think of these Stout?

 

[Stout]

That's an interesting take "must/should be better than it is".

I think we have to consider context of the defenses we've faced, although being the hard (but mostly fair) man you are I doubt you're willing to give the offense very much latitude for this.

Here are some stats from google:

• Passing yards per game: 205.9, which ranks 20th overall
• Rushing yards per game: 141.4, which ranks 6th overall
• Total yards per game: 347.3, which ranks 11th overall
• Third down percentage: 41.1, which ranks 10th overall
• 16th in the NFL for points scored per game in 2024, averaging 22.2 points per game

What do you think of these Stout?

Sure, we've faced tough defenses. At times we have played well against them. But when you're putting up almost nothing but field goals where a single extra TD wins the game, or when you score 6 points in a game where your QB scores 6 for the other team and the opponent scores little, it's a bad trend. Add that this is the past two games in the beginning of the crunch time of the season, and the offense is a big problem right now.

Put it this way: Who would have thought our defense would be better than our offense at this stage of the season? Nick Rallis is still my best friend

 

[602 Native]

Sure, we've faced tough defenses. At times we have played well against them. But when you're putting up almost nothing but field goals where a single extra TD wins the game, or when you score 6 points in a game where your QB scores 6 for the other team and the opponent scores little, it's a bad trend.

Two games out of 12 is not a trend and the QB isn’t calling crappy plays all game which is a trend for our OC.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Sure, we've faced tough defenses. At times we have played well against them. But when you're putting up almost nothing but field goals where a single extra TD wins the game, or when you score 6 points in a game where your QB scores 6 for the other team and the opponent scores little, it's a bad trend. Add that this is the past two games in the beginning of the crunch time of the season, and the offense is a big problem right now.

Put it this way: Who would have thought our defense would be better than our offense at this stage of the season? Nick Rallis is still my best friend

haha... I agree with you 1000% on the defense. I can't imagine how ugly this season would be without Budda and the Miracles playing way, way, way over their heads (in no small part thanks to JG/NR)! We would have maybe two or three more losses by now and instead be talking about next year's draft! Not fun! lol

Back to the offense - you're leaning on some ancetodals, but if you say that that 16th in PPG is not good enough for the talent we have on that side of the ball (even given our WR room underachieving). I think I probably would agree with you.

I know it's unsatisfying to many on the board, but because of the tough schedule, I think our final evaluation of the offense (including K1) is still pending the next few games.

Appreciate it and hope you are otherwise well this morning!

 

[SoonerLou]

Where? You're looking at a frozen screen shot he's about to get hit. He would have had to step up and left to get out there's 2 rushers directly in front of him so stepping up the middle wasn't there. Maybe he gets out left but there's no clear lane they had a guy to his left too.

The mistake was the run on 3rd down he could have gotten more yards on that one but again after watching the replay that should have been a penalty on 91 anyways he hit Kyler in the head.

The first INT was horrible, gave them 3 points and robbed us of the chance to pin them with a punt. The grounding was a terrible play call but a bad decision by Kyler too and frankly he should have probably audibled out of it. The fumble was a bad play too he has to feel the pressure and step up, I thought Paris did well to push his man past Kyler but Kyler has to step up there to avoid the strip.

But I don't really fault him on the 4th down play the most open guy on the field is Zay and he's got like one step but Kyler would have had to throw there and hope for a penalty it was going to be an exceptionally difficult play to complete.

Again you don't see a classic K1 scramble opportunity?

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[Crimson Warrior]

Again you don't see a classic K1 scramble opportunity?

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MHJ is the primary and Murray is already in his throwing motion when MHJ starts to make his break (at :04). It looked like a timing route, and I think that ball was going up no matter what SoonerLou.

I guess you have to credit the defender for covering MHJ really well. It's like he read MHJ's mind, and it wasn't a great throw either. Higher and more to the outside and maybe MHJ outjumps #1 for MIN.

But it's not the end of the world though okay?

The last two were super unfriendly QB games. For anybody. But Murray and the team just about pulled this one off. He was close. We were up six with 3 minutes to go.

Let's see where we're at after this week's game. It doesn't need to be too pretty, we just need to win. Then we go up against couple of weaker defenses, and maybe Kyler can get back in the MVP conversation (which is not important from the team's perspective obviously, but is fun for us K1 superfans).