Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Brian in Mesa]

Weird response. Did you not enjoy those seasons more than kylers putrid performance in his lone playoff game? I know I did. I also consider those seasons to be massively more successful and impressive.

Remember, there are fans out there that if we won the Super Bowl would say, "Well, we better win another one or this was just a fluke." SMH.

 

[Chopper0080]

Meh. Making the playoffs is an underwhelming goal.

Can Kyler get us to the playoffs and beat a good team? Can he go head to head with a great QB and drag a team over the line that isn't at 100%? Like Burrow, Allen, Lamar, Stroud etc can do? No, I don't think he can.

If Kyler is just a QB that can only beat good teams when everything is going his way and everyone is playing the top of their game, well, there are plenty of QB's that can do that.

You have to start somewhere and making the playoffs is that start. Great problem to have if Kyler is good enough to take the Cardinals to the playoffs for multiple years. At that point, you can just wait and jump on trading up for a QB if you think that is his ceiling.

 

[Chopper0080]

78 QBR tonight. Annddd I don't know how. Maybe comp bumping it up/accounting for drops.

Almost 69 QBR on the season/top 5.

If he/Petzing could ever figure out a consistent forward pass. We might have something. As of now Im still questioning everything. Even QBR lol

These composite score rankings are info, but still made up stats. Always good to be in the positive top 5 of rankings tho.

 

[DVontel]

Weird response. Did you not enjoy those seasons more than kylers putrid performance in his lone playoff game? I know I did. I also consider those seasons to be massively more successful and impressive.

Nothing weird about it & you know it.

I enjoyed the SB season with Warner.

Much less so with the Palmer season. I remember the game prior to the NFC Championship game where Palmer was trying his best to lose the game. Luckily, Green Bay’s defense had bricks for hands & our defense was going against a depleted Green Bay defense. A far cry from the eventual SB champion Kyler had his bad performance against.

Also didn’t help Tyrann got injured before the postseason. I did not enjoy the 2015 season as near the 2008 season.

 

[slanidrac16]

Eh, I enjoyed that we won and that our plucky D played well. Our offense needs to improve dramatically and we don't really have good reasons why it isn't.

Well, we know who’s NOT the reason….

 

[Chopper0080]

If Kyler is no better than 15th best in the league, in season six, then we have to start scouting other QBs. He’s not getting better and we’re not gonna win with a QB who’s no better than league average.

Disagree. At least for the rest of this season and next off-season. Maybe after next year, the Cardinals can really start being open to the idea of a successor QB but for now, build the defense and try to keep getting better on offense.

 

[Chopper0080]

K1 played fine yesterday.

Cards Fans:
QBR is meaningless we want wins.

Also Cards Fans:
K1 played terribly even though we won.

This is still not a good football team talent-wise.

Can't wait for the Miami game. Bring on the fish!

This is a fair statement.

Kyler was ok throwing the ball vs LAC. He was special running the ball. We won. I can be happy with that even if I would like better.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Well, we know who’s NOT the reason….

Monday was the opposite of the total team failures we saw against WAS and GB.

The defense made some plays. The offense made some plays. And ST made some plays.

Team win.

Kyler will very ever seldom win a game all by himself by making 50 highlight reel plays. Once in a while, maybe, but he needs the other 21 guys plus the Kicker and Punter to make some plays too.

 

[Chopper0080]

One area that gets discounted on this board IMO, is that Monti and Gannon have filled this roster with workers. They may not all be that talented, but they are workers. While I don't have much faith in the talent, I do have faith in the work ethic of the team to get better. I think that is where I have the most faith in Gannon.

 

[Stout]

I know.

Also, surprised Stout disliked that since he is known to have the highest of standards.

We're comparing those seasons to the one where Kyler crapped the bed leading into and in the playoffs. Kinda laughable.

Good to know you're following my dislikes, though

 

[DVontel]

We're comparing those seasons to the one where Kyler crapped the bed leading into and in the playoffs. Kinda laughable.

Good to know you're following my dislikes, though

I mean, it’s hypocritical of you. That’s more laughable than anything.

Not really following when it shows your name notification under the post. Don’t think that compares to you trying to imitate my posting cause I made you look silly, lol.

 

[bankybruce]

Kyler does have more wins as a Cardinals than Warner and Plummer. He could pass Palmer this year too. Warner and Palmer played a few less games. Plummer played 12 more games when he left.

Palmer
38-22
Kyler
31-40-1
Plummer
31-53
Warner
30-31
Stanton
9-4

 

[Shane]

Kyler does have more wins as a Cardinals than Warner and Plummer. He could pass Palmer this year too. Warner and Palmer played a few less games. Plummer played 12 more games when he left.

Palmer
38-22
Kyler
31-40-1
Plummer
31-53
Warner
30-31
Stanton
19-7

How the hell is Stanton 18-7

 

[bankybruce]

How the hell is Stanton 18-7

The site that listed that was off! I updated! Weird

 

[kerouac9]

These composite score rankings are info, but still made up stats. Always good to be in the positive top 5 of rankings tho.

I disagree with this depending on the stat. Everyone knows I love DVOA, but I also understand that it has some weak spots and blind spots that you have to question and contextualize. It's better than, like, passer rating or yards. I also trust it more than EPA/Play because the numbers are too small to make real distinctions most of the time.

Disagree. At least for the rest of this season and next off-season. Maybe after next year, the Cardinals can really start being open to the idea of a successor QB but for now, build the defense and try to keep getting better on offense.

What people don't understand is that if/when you move on from Kyler there's no guarantee that the next guy is Stroud (who has been regressing some this season and obviously was going to), Love, or Jayden Daniels.

It's more likely that the next guy is Daniel Jones or Geno Smith or Jalen Hurts or Derek Carr.

Kyler will very ever seldom win a game all by himself by making 50 highlight reel plays.

No one is expecting or asking him to do this. I think the big problem is that he's doing a terrible job enabling his teammates on the offense to make any highlight reel plays at all.

The entire WR group is averaging 15 targets, 8.9 receptions, and 104 yards per game this season. For comparison, Garrett Wilson is getting 7.7 targets, 6.57 receptions, and 65.7 yards per game by himself.

 

[Stout]

I mean, it’s hypocritical of you. That’s more laughable than anything.

Not really following when it shows your name notification under the post. Don’t think that compares to you trying to imitate my posting cause I made you look silly, lol.

Okaaay, no idea where you're going with this. But, hey, continue obsessing over me. I guess it's hypocritical to enjoy season where we make the championship/SB more than when we're the back-in, 1 and done laughingstocks of the league. Consider me "humbled" lol

 

[Shane]

The side that listed that was off! I updated! Weird

Still how the hell is he 9-4? Over 2-1 win ratio

 

[Ronin]

Arizona Cardinals


@AZCardinals
·
1h


This was @K1's 20th game with both a passing and rushing TD - in his first 6 seasons.He's the 4th @NFL QB to reach this milestone

 

[602 Native]

Kyler does have more wins as a Cardinals than Warner and Plummer. He could pass Palmer this year too. Warner and Palmer played a few less games. Plummer played 12 more games when he left.

Palmer
38-22
Kyler
31-40-1
Plummer
31-53
Warner
30-31
Stanton
9-4

Our greatest QB ever and HOFer has a losing record with the franchise. Goes to show what a poverty franchise we are.

 

[bankybruce]

Still how the hell is he 9-4? Over 2-1 win ratio

Two words - Bruce Arians

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[602 Native]

One area that gets discounted on this board IMO, is that Monti and Gannon have filled this roster with workers. They may not all be that talented, but they are workers. While I don't have much faith in the talent, I do have faith in the work ethic of the team to get better. I think that is where I have the most faith in Gannon.

Workers don't get blown out like we have this season.

I agree there are some but that is not the mentality of this team in the context of blowouts.

 

[bankybruce]

Workers don't get blown out like we have this season.

I agree there are some but that is not the mentality of this team in the context of blowouts.

Sure they do, especially with certain match ups. Dennis Gardeck is a worker and it sometimes pays off, but usually it doesn't. The guy has 17 sacks in 96 career games. He have recorded a sack in only 11 of those 96 games, with 5 games of 1 sack, 5 game of 2 sacks and 1 game with 3 sacks. Hard work pays off against certain schemes or players, but generally it’s not consistently. That is why we need exceptional players at certain spots and hard worker all around them.

QB, Edge, OT and IDL IMHO needs exceptional players. Then one or two at WR and CB. ILB has two hard working hard hitters. They are fine, but they'll look better with stud pass rushers on the edge and beasts on the IDL.

 

[602 Native]

Sure they do, especially with certain match ups. Dennis Gardeck is a worker and it sometimes pays off, but usually it doesn't. The guy has 17 sacks in 96 career games. He have recorded a sack in only 11 of those 96 games, with 5 games of 1 sack, 5 game of 2 sacks and 1 game with 3 sacks. Hard work pays off against certain schemes or players, but generally it’s not consistently. That is why we need exceptional players at certain spots and hard worker all around them.

QB, Edge, OT and IDL IMHO needs exceptional players. Then one or two at WR and CB. ILB has two hard working hard hitters. They are fine, but they'll look better with stud pass rushers on the edge and beasts on the IDL.

My man, I said we have some workers and you point to probably our best worker. I don't know what you are arguing here.

 

[Chopper0080]

Workers don't get blown out like we have this season.

I agree there are some but that is not the mentality of this team in the context of blowouts.

Kind of disagree. When you have bottom of the barrel players, these guys are fighting to keep their jobs every week. Tonga is going to work on his pass rush even if it likely isn't going to result in sacks. I see very few dudes on this roster who I believe are not workers. Stills seems like he is giving it his all. Lopez. Collins. ST5 is doing the best he can IMO.

I am curious what guys you think are not hard workers on this squad because I can't see many and those that aren't won't be in the league long.

 

[Ronin]

Cardinals QB Kyler Murray enjoying his long TD runs this season