Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[Stout]

He cannot function when he isn't totally healthy.

When fully healthy, he's elite. But he regresses to a bottom 10... maybe bottom 5 starter if he is dealing with anything that restricts his mobility, and in a 17 game season, keeping him untouched is essentially impossible.

Overall, they've been better than I thought they'd be. The surge in early autumn gave me some hope, but it all died after Kyler got hobbled in Seattle.

I can give him an "attaboy" for playing banged up, but if he is terrified of taking a hit then he shouldn't be out there, he shouldn't be in the sport.

When totally healthy, he is not elite. Stop it. Jesus. When totally healthy he is a run-of-the-mill 12-18 best QB in the league who can at times make elite plays or have great games.

 

[BritCard]

Can we stop the "Kyler is great actually" posts on here now and everyone just accept he's a wildly inconsistent QB that really struggles against good defenses and in big games, and for whatever reason is always terrible in the back half of the season.

It just is what it is, we have seen it over and over again, it's not the HC, it's not the OC, it's not the O line or his receivers, we've rotated though many of all of them. I knew how the Seahawks game was going to play out all week because I know exactly who Kyler is.

He's going to have games where he is great, but he's going to have more games where he is bad, and every time he comes up against a good defense he's going to lose.

He's not even prime Andy Dalton. He's 2016 to 2019 Andy Dalton.

 

[Stout]

I'm not sure which pick was worse. The one he threw right at a LB that never had a chance, or the one where the WR was wide open but he threw it late and way too slow/high.

How about the one that would have been a pick if MHJ hadn't taken the bullet for him and committed PI?

 

[Sparky16]

This offense isn't built for Kyler, it's a running O that needs a QB that plays from the pocket. They need to change the system or change the QB, the two aren't compatible

Kyler is made for flag football - no contact and no Oline to block the midgets view

 

[BritCard]

How about the one that would have been a pick if MHJ hadn't taken the bullet for him and committed PI?

I think I'd gone to bed by that point as I already knew the result.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not sure which pick was worse. The one he threw right at a LB that never had a chance, or the one where the WR was wide open but he threw it late and way too slow/high.

The 2nd one he was stepping up and a defender was about to hit him so I don't think he got enough on the throw and it floated. The first one he just got suckered by the LB, the guy baited him into that throw. To me the first one was worse because he literally fell for the bait

 

[Phrazbit]

When totally healthy, he is not elite. Stop it. Jesus. When totally healthy he is a run-of-the-mill 12-18 best QB in the league who can at times make elite plays or have great games.

I'm not framing this as an excuse. If you cannot function when even mildly banged up then you're not a QB worth any level of commitment. He has carried this crappy roster through a lot of wins... when healthy, making plays that hardly anyone can make. He's just a different animal once he gets even slightly banged up. That is on him, it's on how undersized he is and it's on how reliant he is on his quickness to create opportunities.

I really do think that healthy Kyler is a top 10 QB, and Kyler with anything that remotely inhibits his mobility or makes him scared of taking a hit is a bad player... and there is no world where an NFL QB can avoid those circumstances.

This was the case in 2021 he looked great for the first 9 weeks... until he rolled his ankle against Green Bay and then sucked the rest of the year. He gets punch drunk easily and he relies way too much on his mobility to create big plays.

 

[blindseyed]

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[Stout]

I think I'd gone to bed by that point as I already knew the result.

Man, I wish Penn State had done me the favor of losing the game I knew they would lose earlier so I could go to bed on Saturday. They kept making it juuust close enough to offer hope where there was none.

 

[Stout]

I'm not framing this as an excuse. If you cannot function when even mildly banged up then you're not a QB worth any level of commitment. He has carried this crappy roster through a lot of wins... when healthy, making plays that hardly anyone can make. He's just a different animal once he gets even slightly banged up. That is on him, it's on how undersized he is and it's on how reliant he is on his quickness to create opportunities.

I really do think that healthy Kyler is a top 10 QB, and Kyler with anything that remotely inhibits his mobility or makes him scared of taking a hit is a bad player... and there is no world where an NFL QB can avoid those circumstances.

This was the case in 2021 he looked great for the first 9 weeks... until he rolled his ankle against Green Bay and then sucked the rest of the year. He gets punch drunk easily and he relies way too much on his mobility to create big plays.

I disagree, especially this season where the defense has clearly carried the team to most of its wins. He had a few shining games, no doubt, but not nearly enough to be top 10 worthy.

 

[Stout]

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Love it!

All kidding aside, what an absolutely marvelous movie. Especially as I am a mental health "expert" and trauma therapist, as well as a veteran. Deals so well with the subject matter, stigma facing Vietnam vets at the time, and the feels. All the feels.

 

[kerouac9]

our offense needs a QB as good as Tua.

OOOOOOF.

When fully healthy, he's elite. But he regresses to a bottom 10... maybe bottom 5 starter if he is dealing with anything that restricts his mobility, and in a 17 game season, keeping him untouched is essentially impossible.

This is projecting. He hasn’t appeared on an injury report. He’s maybe missed a handful of snaps. If he’s a fabrege egg so be it, but made up injuries are an excuse. Every NFl player is hurting come December.

 

[Chopper0080]

Most QBs in the 12 to 20 range can be both good and bad. That’s what Kyler is. I don’t see a QB option the Cardinals would move off of him for this upcoming offseason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The 2nd one he was stepping up and a defender was about to hit him so I don't think he got enough on the throw and it floated. The first one he just got suckered by the LB, the guy baited him into that throw. To me the first one was worse because he literally fell for the bait

Not imo. They were equally awful

#1 he threw it to a LB who barely moved from where he was standing pre-snap. In other words, kyler had to know he was there. If he didn’t, what the hell is kyler looking at pre-snap?

#2 the receiver is WIDE FREAKING OPEN so early in his route that kyler just has to let it rip. So not only did he make the throw poorly so a safety could make a play on it, but he likely blew what would have been an enormous gainer, maybe even a TD if that safety couldn’t make the tackle as the receiver was SO FREAKING WIDE OPEN.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not framing this as an excuse. If you cannot function when even mildly banged up then you're not a QB worth any level of commitment. He has carried this crappy roster through a lot of wins... when healthy, making plays that hardly anyone can make. He's just a different animal once he gets even slightly banged up. That is on him, it's on how undersized he is and it's on how reliant he is on his quickness to create opportunities.

I really do think that healthy Kyler is a top 10 QB, and Kyler with anything that remotely inhibits his mobility or makes him scared of taking a hit is a bad player... and there is no world where an NFL QB can avoid those circumstances.

This was the case in 2021 he looked great for the first 9 weeks... until he rolled his ankle against Green Bay and then sucked the rest of the year. He gets punch drunk easily and he relies way too much on his mobility to create big plays.

Disagree. In the most important games he turtles. It shows a lack of mental toughness. He panics at the slightest sign of negativity. And the panic collapses upon him. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile while not 100%. That’s never happened with kyler because it’s not the physical limitations causing the interceptions today, it’s his panic.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Most QBs in the 12 to 20 range can be both good and bad. That’s what Kyler is. I don’t see a QB option the Cardinals would move off of him for this upcoming offseason.

Agree. But then again we likely wouldn’t have counted darnold as one of those options last offseason. So what other highly touted retread might we bring in next year to replace him if he stinks? I’m not thinking tune is anything but a spot holder.

 

[netsnjkidd]

Agree. But then again we likely wouldn’t have counted darnold as one of those options last offseason. So what other highly touted retread might we bring in next year to replace him if he stinks? I’m not thinking tune is anything but a spot holder.

Maybe Jamies, Mac jones, daniel jones,kenny Pickett. Looks better to take a chance on a later rd rookie qb. Even though I like Jameis the turnovers are just to much tho

 

[Chopper0080]

Agree. But then again we likely wouldn’t have counted darnold as one of those options last offseason. So what other highly touted retread might we bring in next year to replace him if he stinks? I’m not thinking tune is anything but a spot holder.

I think the Vikings not re-signing Kirk at 35 to a multi year, large contract is different than actively moving off Kyler and eating dead cap space.

 

[cardncubfan]

That’s great for you but really unfair for the rest of us to have to suffer through this crap year after year.

If this team doesn’t cut bait in some way shape or form with Kyler, they will never be serious about winning.

They'll have to wait until after next year to cut bait due to his contract.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe Jamies, Mac jones, daniel jones,kenny Pickett. Looks better to take a chance on a later rd rookie qb. Even though I like Jameis the turnovers are just to much tho

Yeah…this wouldn’t be a good option

 

[Chopper0080]

They'll have to wait until after next year to cut bait due to his contract.

It’s less to do with the contract and more to do with the available options, imo.

 

[Cheesebeef]

OOOOOOF.



This is projecting. He hasn’t appeared on an injury report. He’s maybe missed a handful of snaps. If he’s a fabrege egg so be it, but made up injuries are an excuse. Every NFl player is hurting come December.

Yeah… what? Where is anyone getting that he’s no healthy right now? That hasn’t been a discussion at all. The excuses people come up with for this kid are kinda mind boggling.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They'll have to wait until after next year to cut bait due to his contract.

The Broncos didn’t with Wilson. Just deciding to lay down another entire season next year, when we have the cal room to absorb the cap hit sounds like loser football.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yea, I rooted for the guy, but he just doesn’t have what it takes to win a big game. It is what it is. No point in even watching anymore until Kyler & the organization parts ways.

It's been six years at this point, and he hasn't won one game that matters. He is what he is.

 

[cardncubfan]

It’s less to do with the contract and more to do with the available options, imo.

Wouldn't the cap hit also be very large restricting any possible FA signings?